Is Upwork losing the battle against scammers?

[creativedigit]

I haven't posted in months, and I'd hate to be ranting on my first one. After closely monitoring the scammers who are posting on the platform on a daily basis, I figured out that it's one entity behind this form of attack. 5 out of each 10 job posts on average are coming from scammers, at least in my category and at the time I am checking on new gigs. If Upwork won't take immediate action, it will be a matter of time before Upwork will lose everything. If Upwork is not aware of how serious the situation is, I highly recommend that they think twice.

Failing to take immediate action means that Upwork does not respect its members' time. Think about all the time we're losing on a daily basis because scammers are freely posting on the platform. I reached a point where I know before clicking on a job whether it's legit or not.

I suggest the following workarounds:

• For the immediate future, have an employee manually review each job post, and simply reject the posts that contain contact information or links for external communication. While it doesn't stop all scams, it will drastically decrease their number.
• Have your developer build logic for handling job posts. Check if the person who is posting has at least hired one freelancer in the past, and if they did, allow their job post immediately. Otherwise, for new clients (since all scammers have new accounts), simply pause the job from being posted until an employee manually approves their job post (or rejects it).
• Ask your developer to create a Regex to detect if the job post contains emails, phone numbers, or other contact information in the title and the description of the job (on the server-side). If it does contact information, stop them from posting the job until they resolve the issue (removing the contact information in this case, since this is a mistake even legit clients may do sometimes).
• Ask those who create new accounts to confirm their identity with email confirmation and two-factor authentication.

I am considering quitting the platform temporarily in the next few days until this issue is resolved. I can no longer afford to waste my time reading proposals of scammers. This used to be a great platform, what happened?

[yofazza]

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how do I filter out the jobs with no payment verified

https://www.upwork.com/nx/jobs/search/?sort=recency&payment_verified=1

Payment verified only 👆

[da77fced]

I would say also that Upwork don't let Clients post a job unless they verify their payment information and probably deposit a minimum amount to the escrow.

While this will lower the amount of the post published, the quality will be improved.

Upwork can partner with freelancers and agencies so that they bring their own clients to the platform and ensure a continious piepeline of quality clients like I suggested here

[pgiambalvo]

I'm done. I have just flagged my last scam. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity, or so it's been said. Popping open a beer to celebrate. Cheers, everyone! A toast to futility!

[miriam-ocampo]

It is not a battle because they are not fighting. It doesn't seem to me like they care at all... 

[a_kuntsi]

Also, I am wondering, if this is "just" an attempt to scam freelancers. 

Or (also) an attack against Upwork as one kind of cyber attack. 

In my university, we have just discussed these things on a cyber security course. 

At the moment all kinds of attacks that are not actual hacking, are happening all over the world in order to hurt the business.

[59995aa9]

It's allegedly a lucrative & sneaky biz, that's why they do it. As long as they'll get away with it, they're gonna milk it til kingdom come.

But eventually they'll all get caught. Just a matter of how, when & where!! 

[roberty1y]

They never get caught in the sense of being punished. The worst that can happen from their point of view is their job posting is taken down. They can be back again a few minutes later.

[pgiambalvo]

Is it possible for Upwork to send laser-beams through to the scammer's computer and fry their eyeballs?

[the-right-writer]

The probability of that occurring is in the same category as Upwork doing something meaningful about the non-stop scams.

[4b774cd2]

No.

It's just people in terrible circumstances that want to eat.

Being coralled by greedy individuals without ethics who have lost their humanity either to who they are exploiting or who they are targeting.

[e_skoldebring]

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Anneli K wrote:

Also, I am wondering, if this is "just" an attempt to scam freelancers. 

Or (also) an attack against Upwork as one kind of cyber attack. 

In my university, we have just discussed these things on a cyber security course. 

At the moment all kinds of attacks that are not actual hacking, are happening all over the world in order to hurt the business.

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Honestly I never had any problems with spam posts or spam inviations until the war on Ukraine started. Now it seems the entire platform is under attack. Just saying.

[nhansen]

I read an article recently about how freelancers (not necessarily on Upwork) in Ukraine are spending a large amount of their time volunteering to conduct cyber attacks against Russia. I'm sure all sides do it, and with Upwork's CEO taking a very firm stance on one side of a political situation, it would not be surprising at all if something like this was going on.

There were even several posts here in the forum complaining about the ban on Russian freelancers by what appeared to me to be fake clients because of the way they were written.

[geri_kol]

This is such a relevant thread with many valuable contributions, constructive criticisms, and suggestions. Yet... hear the silence? No one from Upwork seems to have deemed it worthwhile enough to comment, though of course the mods are lightning-quick when it comes to removing links to scam posts or censoring even the mildest rant words. How do we know they have even noticed it? To my mind, a company that demonstrates such absolute disregard for issues that are a major sticking point for its user base and disrupt their way of earning money - the main purpose of this platform - has its business priorities really messed up. 

[uacutie]

Like my first experience on upwork I got scammed..something should be done about all this really

educate about some scams

dissallow some jobs 

Charge clients card immediately they open d contract not after the contract has been completed

sheeesshhh what terrible experience 

[59995aa9]

Yes sir 

These new clients joining need a THOROUGH vetting & screening before they post jobs! It's almost like platforms like UW are just letting everything & everyone come on down the pipeline & don't really pay that closely of attention to the consequences... Though UW does claim they take scammers seriously! 

I was looking on the UW careers page the other day. Several contracted Security Engineering spots were available, but Corporate spots were not. The Trust & Safety crew, are they hiring?? I have to wonder (??) 🤔

[2ef54d61]

Upwork could cut down on scammers big time if they'd simply require payment verification before posting a job. They'll have to do it anyway, why not make them start with it? Seems like a simple, easy fix that won't chase anyone SERIOUS away

[pgiambalvo]

I agree that it might cut them down, but unfortunatley, verified payment method still doesn't mean they are not a scammer. It just means that they submitted a credit card, and Upwork sent a nominal charge through and it was not rejected. But that doesn't mean that when a project is completed, that card will able to be charged for the amount of payment due. In short, verified payment method means nothing, and actually can have a negative effect because when people see this, they assume that the client is legitimate.

[2ef54d61]

Yeah, it won't solve the problem, but it's a simple and harmless step they could take that would reduce scams. 

Their current practice of "eh just flag them and we'll check up on it maybe" sure isn't working. I don't even bother flagging them because upwork sure ain't paying me to. Maybe they should implement some kind of reward system like giving a connect for every scam post you flag that gets taken down. 

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Stuart H wrote:

Upwork could cut down on scammers big time if they'd simply require payment verification before posting a job. They'll have to do it anyway, why not make them start with it? Seems like a simple, easy fix that won't chase anyone SERIOUS away

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Actually, many of us have had conversations with great clients who indicated unequivocally they would not have tried UW if it required them to go through payment verification before posting their first job--before they even know whether or not they're likely to find a FL here they want to hire. It would be like a restaurant making you verify your credit card in order to stand outside and peruse their menu.

Further, we hear dozens (or more) tales of woe every week from FLs who got scammed because they thought "payment verified" meant the "client" was legit. 

[roberty1y]

Yes. The "buy bitcoin for me" guys would just love that. Verify payment method, lull freelancers into a false sense of security.

There's just no substitute for freelancers learning the terms of service. Once they abide by them, scamming is almost impossible.

[pgiambalvo]

"Verify payment method, lull freelancers into a false sense of security."

More than it already does.

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Robert Y wrote:

Yes. The "buy bitcoin for me" guys would just love that. Verify payment method, lull freelancers into a false sense of security.

There's just no substitute for freelancers learning the terms of service. Once they abide by them, scamming is almost impossible.

---

But not completely impossible. Ultimately, there is no way for UW to completely protect FLs who don't take measures to protect themselves. Yes, UW needs more proactive filtering of job posts and more unequivocal, unsubtle cautions placed in the faces of FLs (and clients) during the process of joining the platform. None of that will help, though, to protect aspiring FLs who don't understand how FLing works--who treat the platform like a vending machine app and assume someone else is responsible is something goes wrong. 

[roberty1y]

Upwork really only has to get rid of most of the scammers, which I think it could do by forcing everyone to learn and abide by the terms of service on pain of expulsion from the site. If there's still one scam for every 50 jobs, that isn't going to be a problem.

This solution would result in many freelancers being thrown off the site, because many just can't or won't stop paying out money to scammers, and thus keep drawing them back to clog up the job feeds.

Freelancers like this would be no loss to Upwork in terms of lost commission, because most of them get no real jobs. Maybe Upwork is reluctant to let them go because they bring in revenue by buying connects. If a thousand people are spending a dollar a day each on connects, even with no result, that's over £300,000 of easy money per year that the company might not be too willing to lose.

[petra_r]

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Stuart H wrote: Seems like a simple, easy fix that won't chase anyone SERIOUS away

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It would. That's why NONE of the other platforms do this either.

[roberty1y]

But Upwork never does crazy things, right? And who knows, they might get the idea that making clients verify their payment method will push them towards making a hire. All we can do is keep reminding them of how bad an idea it would be.

[2ef54d61]

I don't care if none of the platforms wipe their butts. Upwork (and all freelancer platforms) are in it to make money, which is fine. They want as many people as possible on their site. They have all just decided that some of us may get scammed, but it's a sacrifice they are willing to make :'( 

If they really cared about freelancers getting scammed, their response wouldn't be "well you could spend your workday flagging spam posts (aka working for us for free)" accompanied with a shoulder shrug every time it's brought up. 

If a client is scared away by having to type in their credit card number (you know, that thing all of us do whenever we buy literally anything online) then I would have serious doubts they'd do anything on Upwork other than waste someone else's time. 

[researchediting]

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Stuart H wrote:

If a client is scared away by having to type in their credit card number (you know, that thing all of us do whenever we buy literally anything online) then I would have serious doubts they'd do anything on Upwork other than waste someone else's time. 

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As has been pointed out several times, people are not proposing that clients type in their credit card number when they buy anything online. They already have to do that, though in some cases we might need to nudge them to verify.

The constant refrain here is that prospective clients should be required to provide payment information when they post a job, or to use the site at all. That is by no means the norm. We don't hand over our credit card wehen we walk into a store, or tell a clerk "I'm looking for a counterclockwise widget," but after we determine that the store sells widgets, including counterclockwise ones, and that they have a particular one that we're willing to pay for.

[2ef54d61]

Costco, Sam's club. These businesses require you to essentially verify that you're actually going to buy before you browse and they're wildly successful. 

[researchediting]

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Stuart H wrote:

Costco, Sam's club. These businesses require you to essentially verify that you're actually going to buy before you browse and they're wildly successful. 

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Customers of warehouse-style retailers, before signing up, have done the math, or relied on their circles having done so: spend x dollars annually for membership, get y >x, if not multiples of x, back in discounts on commodity goods. That may work for Enterprise clients; certainly not for the ones who are my bread and butter. For that matter, the paid membership model doesn't work in any market where individual consumer demand is variable, which is why you don't see hardware or appliance chains adopting it.

You know, for most of my time here, I would also have argued that a professional services marketplace was poles apart from a discount commodity chain. If for nothing else, thanks for reminding me that Upwork's initiatives from the last year or so only confirm and institutionalize their inability to tell the difference.

[2ef54d61]

I'm not suggesting a paid membership, only that vetting customers isn't some absurd idea that will never work. 

[researchediting]

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Stuart H wrote:

I'm not suggesting a paid membership, only that vetting customers isn't some absurd idea that will never work. 

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I haven't seen anyone argue that. I've seen discussion proposing various measures, some of which are received more favorably than others. I've endorsed basic identity verification, in line with standard internet practices.

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Stuart H wrote:

I'm not suggesting a paid membership, only that vetting customers isn't some absurd idea that will never work. 

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The examples you cited--Costco and Sam's Club--are precisely that: paid memberships. 

Vetting clients before admitting them to this platform might catch some of the scammers and definitely would deter many clients from using the platform. Too many of us have heard from our own clients that the UI on their side is already cumbersome enough and if they were required to verify a cc prior to posting a job, they wouldn't bother.

Vetting FLs before admitting them to the platform--if done competently and consistently--would vastly reduce the population of scam targets which would, in turn, starve out a proportion of the scammers. That UW has not chosen to do this, I ascribe to a pernicious persistent and virulent misunderstanding of how the whole thing actually works.

[kfarnell]

The scam posts are being viewed as separate and addressed (when they are) individually. But there are clear patterns in the type, wording and when they're posted.

For example, in the writing category a couple of days ago they were all fixed price, had budgets of over 1,000, and were marked as entry level. Two sets of wording were used and the same set of emojis at the same point in the post. They were posted in waves rather than spread out.

Anyone watching and playing with filters could pick up the current pattern for a category and use it to filter large numbers at a time. This isn't a check each project situation. Upwork needs to be doing a big picture attack. As part of that a new option on the flagging thing saying something like "scam post, one of group type" - though probably in better English:-)

[roberty1y]

Trouble is they will refine their methods when too many of their postings are taken down too soon. I already came across one (and sent a proposal) that was a genuine job posting copied word for word and reposted. Scammers will always find new ways of fooling a few people, which is all they need to make their efforts worthwhile. Until everyone learns the ToS, there's no way of stopping them.

[pgiambalvo]

No way is everyone ever going to learn the ToS. Better to point new freelancers to the particular parts of it before letting them have accounts that will keep them safe, and what they are and are not allowed to do. Have you read through the entire ToS on your Google account, or FB, or, credit cards, etc.? Or just the parts that you think are important? I know I haven't.

[kfarnell]

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Robert Y wrote:

Trouble is they will refine their methods when too many of their postings are taken down too soon. I already came across one (and sent a proposal) that was a genuine job posting copied word for word and reposted. Scammers will always find new ways of fooling a few people, which is all they need to make their efforts worthwhile. Until everyone learns the ToS, there's no way of stopping them.

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In general, yes, scammers are reactive. But the large number of identical posts appearing almost simultaneously recently are different. They're clearly coming from a common source. The patterns are adjusting but they remain consistent for a period and when they adjust, they all adjust together. This isn't a few scammers following guidelines. It's something different and needs a different approach.

[pgiambalvo]

It appears that the scammers are winning the battle. Pretty straightforward -- Upwork’s security team is unable to stop them, or else their posts wouldn’t be in our feeds, right?  But we are being told they are doing their best. Good luck to them for all freelancers’ sakes, especially the new ones who may be unaware of how to avoid being scammed and think that a verified payment method and/or the fact that the post has been allowed to appear in their feeds means that it must be legitimate.

[renata101]

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Kim F wrote:

The scam posts are being viewed as separate and addressed (when they are) individually. But there are clear patterns in the type, wording and when they're posted.

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I wonder if there might be an internal reason for this. Some companies have a quota system for how many tickets their agents are supposed to handle in a certain amount of time. So if I flag a post and attach a link to a search with 15 other posts with the same issue, the T&S agent might not want to handle more than one of the problem posts because that would mean they risk coming up short on their quota. If a system like that were in place, it would mean there was absolutely no incentive for agents to handle more than one post at a time. This might explain why we seem to need to flag everything individually for it to be looked at.

I can really see something like that being at play in a company like Upwork.

[pgiambalvo]

I think it's more likely that it's simply a numbers game. More clients and more posts might be somehow be beneficial for Upwork, even though those numbers are vastly inflated by scam and spam posts. 

[renata101]

@Wassim 
Great post and I really hope someone takes your advice to heart.

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Wassim T wrote:

Failing to take immediate action means that Upwork does not respect its members' time. Think about all the time we're losing on a daily basis because scammers are freely posting on the platform. I reached a point where I know before clicking on a job whether it's legit or not.


I appreciate your upbeat view of the situation, but I must be freelancing on a different planet. Are we members of this platform and have you noticed that Upwork considers us that way? I know we certainly support it with the fees we pay, but my sense has never been that Upwork considers our contributions valuable enough to treat us as paying customers that they're worried about losing. They certainly don't value us enough to find a way to filter our the dross that we have to wade through on a regular basis.

 But maybe this has simply been more noticeable in my own line of work. But of course, the volume and the consistency seems to be greater.

One of my concerns has always been that they're scamming people on the lower end of the pay scale who may not be familiar with the platform for a variety of reasons. I know based on others' reactions on this forum that I shoud be really be hardened enough to this to feel that these people are idiots and they're really victims of their own stupidity, but posts like these have been around for as long as I've been on the platform and people do get sucked in by them:

https://www.upwork.com/nx/jobs/search/?q=%22I%20need%20someone%20who%20can%20help%20me%20retype%20do...

And here are 104 jobs in my area. I've flagged some of the posts. I don't have the time or the inclination to flag every single post, so I've included the a link to this search list so the agents can see the similarity of the postings and be proactive about addressing them (they're all built from the same template). They're still sitting there two weeks later.

https://www.upwork.com/nx/jobs/search/?q=%2243%24%20per%20hour%22&sort=recency