Is there an "Other" list for proposals?

[#1]

I recently learned there are three places our proposals can end up:  the boosted list, the organic list, and a third list called “Other”.   Can anyone, preferably a moderator, explain what the “Other” list is for?  As far as I know there are only two types of proposals; Boosted and Organic.  If this is true why are there three lists?  If there is an “Other” list, where is it placed and what are the determinining factors that send our proposals to the “Other” list. 

I’m asking because years ago there was a big hoopla about proposals being sent to an “Archived” list, unbeknownst to the freelancer that sent it.  Upwork said they stopped doing this, so now, and especially since we now purchase connects,  I’m wondering if the “Other” list is really the same thing, just another name.  Thanks.

[#2]

Its a simple: Upwork force you to boost. You can waste money to boost with no guarantees or you proposal will be trashed to "others".

[#3]

This sounds ripe for litigation...

[#4]

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Mark L wrote:

This sounds ripe for litigation...

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Except that it's not true. Upwork doesn't "trash" proposals that aren't boosted; the first four proposals (only) are the boosted ones, and all other proposals follow, supposedly in order of who's the best match. It is true, however, that Upwork's algorithms mark some proposals "best match" even when they're clearly not, and puts them higher on the list than freelancers who are a much better match. The only way to guarantee that you'll be on top is by spending more connects, but if you're in a niche in which clients aren't being inundated with proposals, boosting probably isn't necessary (some people even claim that it's counter-productive, although I don't necessarily agree). 

[#5]

OTHER is the bottom of the pile, reserved for proposals that the algorithm determines do not meet the criteria of the job post. Apparently it was around at least as far back as the beginning of 2020. As far as I can tell, all screenshots of the setup have been taken down. This is the most recent example that I know of (note that OP said that he received the screenshot from the client, who knew OP since high school).

[#6]

Yes there's an other list. It appears at the bottom of the page. The propals are hidden and so you have to click a link to open it. 

Upwork won't tell you if your prposal ends up in the others list or not but they will be happy to take your money for the connects you just spent!

[#7]

The other list is not new. The archived section was a different issue entirely: clients can archive proposals if they're not interested to clean up the list and Upwork was taking it upon itself to do that for the client, with the client never knowing it had happened and not knowing they'd received those proposals unless they opened their archived tab for some reason. 

[#8]

Hello,

What do you mean by "there are three places our proposals can end up".

I work here for more than 10 years and never heard about it. 

Who/what decides where our proposal end up? 

[#9]

Given the information available, I'd guess that it might be where proposals that don't meet some preferred criteria defined by the client end up. For example, some clients specify a freelancer location as a preference, not being from that location doesn't prevent you from submitting a proposal to that job, it'll warn you that you don't meet the client's preferences, but you can still apply (because of course, there's connects to be collected, why would they prevent that), so it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility that your proposal will end up in "Other" in that situation. 

Just conjecture until someone from UW chimes in to clarify.

[#10]

Mods might say that the "other" folder is used for that (unmatched criteria, etc), but what I'm getting from reading threads similar with the one Jonathan's posted above, and also my experience, the reason that could put you into that folder is random, or, determined by the secretive sorting algo to be exact.

Mods confirmed, and there are many evidence, about Upwork "rotating" the search result. What prevents them from doing the same thing to proposals? It's for exactly the same goal; to rotate the perception of opportunity to as many freelancers as possible.

But of course it would be great if mods can confirm and someone could actually prove it. If I'm wrong,  at least I'll know that submitting with something that are not "preferred" by the client is next to useless.

• "rising talent preferred"
• "preferred location"
• "preferred budget"
• ?

[#11]

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Radia L wrote:

Mods might say that the "other" folder is used for that (unmatched criteria, etc), but what I'm getting from reading threads similar with the one Jonathan's posted above, and also my experience, the reason that could put you into that folder is random, or, determined by the secretive sorting algo to be exact.

Mods confirmed, and there are many evidence, about Upwork "rotating" the search result. What prevents them from doing the same thing to proposals? It's for exactly the same goal; to rotate the perception of opportunity to as many freelancers as possible.

But of course it would be great if mods can confirm and someone could actually prove it. At least we'll know that submitting with something that are not "preferred" by the client is next to useless.

• "rising talent preferred"
• "preferred location"
• "preferred budget"
• ?

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Radia, exactly what I was thinking.  I had no idea this rip-off practice was going on and am absolutely shocked by the blatant disregard of our time to craft proposals and the money we spend on them.  It explains that I need not look any further as to why mine and countless other qualified proposals are not viewed.

Years ago when connects were free was one thing, but now that we pay for them is a game changer.  No matter who we are, where we’re from, or what our qualifications are, once Upwork tenders our money all bets should be off and our proposals need be equal in value-just as we paid for them.  My goodness, this is proposal manipulation!  No wonder thousands of qualified freelancers are scratching their heads wondering what they can do better.  We can’t do any better because there is a blind and indiscriminate road block ahead of us that takes our money first, then unilaterally decides what to do with it.  Oy vey.

[#12]

A few day's back I posted a question regarding the "Other" list of proposals.  I specifically want to know why Upwork only has two types of proposals-Boosted and Organic, but has three piles to put them in-Boosted, Organic, and "Other"?

Utimately, my concern is that many of our proposals that we spend time crafting and purchasing connects for are ending up in this "Other" pile.  I do not think it's fair because as long as we are purchasing connects Upwork need not have any say in how we spend them.  

Can a moderator kindly explain this so we can all be aware of this little known practice?  Where was it originally written that this is happening?  I just recently learned of it but am reasonably certain many others still don't know of it.  I asked this a few days ago and did not get a moderator response.  I've since flagged it three times and still no response.  Thank You.

[#13]

Hello Anna,

I work here for years, and I really don't know what is the "Other" list.

I send proposals for specific jobs that fit my skills, and clients even don't read my proposals, I don't receive invitations anymore.

Is it related to the "Other" list?

Thank you

[#14]

Hi Debora, you asked this question a few days ago when I first posted it but I was hoping a moderator would come around and respond.  I flagged the post three times and it still didnt work.  Today, on this post, I PM'd a moderator and no luck so far.  Perhaps you can flag it too? 

I'm beginning to think moderators just don't want to go near this question because there's no sugar coating manipulating our proposals once they are submitted with purchased connects.

[#15]

The most recent discussion I can remember was back in late July. You can see that discussion here.

Moderators Pradeep and Arjay noted that a proposal might show under the "Other Proposals" section if it doesn't meet some of the preferences the client defined. But I doubt either of them--or any other Moderator--will tell us why there are only two types of proposals (Boosted and Organic), but three different tabs to put them in.

In my opinion, even if a proposal does not meet most of the client's job requirements, it shouldn't be segregated to another tab/pile. My guess is, Upwork does this to prevent clients from seeing proposals that don't match their job descriptions. The problem is, the algorithm decides this and sometimes places highly relevant proposals in "Other" that shouldn't be there.

[#16]

Right, and I find it a disingenuous practice.  To me, when Upwork tenders our money the transaction is over.....none of this, "well, first pay us, then we'll run your proposal through our secret algorithm to determine what to do with it".   No, no, no.  When we purchase connects our money is equal, and our connects should be too.  This is very unnerving.

[#17]

the algorithm decides this and sometimes places highly relevant proposals in "Other" that shouldn't be there.

In the other thread, you mentioned that it's an error by the algo. I believe, it's not an error but a feature to support their goals.

Looking at how they have time to research with placebo boost has convinced me even further 😄

But a funny thing 😄 

Just like the "ignored" scam posts, they have their priorities.

[#18]

Yeah... I can understand that mindset, but I still think it's an error. Upwork's various algorithms come with glitches and I'm sure many quality proposals are dumped into "Other" when they are comparable or better than the proposals not sent to "Other." A machine learning algorithm that continuously attempts to predict placement and rankings for millions of proposals? That's a recipe for disaster as I see it.

I can understand Upwork's desire to show clients the best proposals, but like Anna said--if I'm paying 16 Connects and other freelancers are paying 16 Connects--I really don't want an algorithm deciding that my proposal isn't worthy to be in the starting line-up.

By the way, I've seen quite a few jobs from banned countries, but I never flag them. Just another example of glitchy algorithms not blocking what should be blocked. 😂

[#19]

I can understand Upwork's desire to show clients the best proposals

Just to clarify, the mindset of me is "Upwork is prioritizing rotation". Just like the confirmed rotation in search result, rotating proposal views has exactly the same goal.

So, they are no longer interested in showing 'best proposals'. They tried that (having good/quality freelancers) for years, but it didn't work for their net income. They are currently trying something else, but of course, they will still attempt to find a balance to prevent reaching the saturation point that could eventually make all real clients leave.

Again, this is just me without actual proof etc. 😊

[#20]

I can understand Upwork's desire to show clients the best proposals, but like Anna said--if I'm paying 16 Connects and other freelancers are paying 16 Connects--I really don't want an algorithm deciding that my proposal isn't worthy to be in the starting line-up.

Arguably, the same is true when the algorithm decides your proposal belongs in the 79th spot.

[#21]

It would be very strange if Upwork's goal was to make sure qualified freelancers did not get hired and Upwork did not collect fees. 

[#22]

My response would be, "they tried that for years and didn't work".

did not collect fees. 

We know collecting connects money is more provitable than collecting the fees on some projects. They just have to find some balances here and there to make sure "the chance is rotated" while still prevent reaching the saturation point that could eventually make all real clients leave.

[#23]

Sure, but if all the clients leave because they're not finding anyone to hire, there won't be anything to spend connects on. 

The idea that they're pushing newer and lower level freelancers does make sense to me, though, because I've been convinced for the past couple of years that Upwork is moving away from freelancers, and that seems to have accelerated dramatically in the past 6 months or so.

[#24]

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Tiffany S wrote:

Sure, but if all the clients leave because they're not finding anyone to hire, there won't be anything to spend connects on. 

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I think that's exactly what's happening.

[#25]

I am certain this is what is happening - there are so, so many jobs I have applied to where nobody has been hired.  And I am not even viewed.  So by all likelihood very few or no people are viewed. Clients look at this absolute clusterf*ck of casino style ranking-results and decide it's not trustworthy.