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Is there protection against misleading clients regarding feedback editing?

tlsanders
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
11 of 23

@Phillip W wrote:

(2/2) I found this in the documentation. An interpretation of how it wouldn't apply to this case may be helpful.

 

"All profiles, jobs, proposals, and other content posted to the Site must be truthful and not misleading. Here are examples of uses that are prohibited:

  • Misrepresenting a Freelancer’s experience, skills, or information;"

The evidence of being misleading would be provided in message exchanges in direct connection with the updated feedback (indicating that a rating would be raised, not lowered), where the Freelancer's information being misrepresented (content posted to the site) would be the indicated job performance for a particular job. 


Clearly you're new here. I don't want you to get the idea that I'm being rude due to personal issues or anything, but we've seen this issue raised (usually in situations where it's actually occurred) roughly 7,000 times. Upwork does not intervene. Upwork does not review your messages to make a determination as to whether the feedback was fair or accurate. Upwork does not remove disputed feedback.

 

The client is free to give whatever feedback he chooses in the first round, and if you open it back up for revision, he is free to give you whatever feedback he chooses the second time. 

a926ba54
Active Member
Phillip W Member Since: Jun 14, 2016
12 of 23

Thank you for explaining that. Frankly, I might have best not made the post to begin with (the post was preemptive and I haven't suffered a bad rating) -- nothing is perfect, and I can be a perfectionist. So I bear some of the responsibility for those who made oblique posts, as I probably should have been on the straight and narrow (not here).

 

If there was a better place to make the initial post, please let me know.

 

Take care

 

 

researchediting
Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
13 of 23

"I'm referring to a potential (apparently unlikely) scenario of a client that transparently lies about their intentions in this case, and what Upwork could do about it. Note the potential gravity of the situation for some profiles."

 

Will Upwork protect you from expecting anything other than lies from a person you expect (however hypothetically) to lie?

 

No.

 

Will Upwork let you keep badgering the client with new requests till you get what you want?

 

No.

 

Is a client who rated you poorly and then rates you worse likely to be persuaded by either you or Upwork to do any better by you?

 

No.

a926ba54
Active Member
Phillip W Member Since: Jun 14, 2016
14 of 23

note: Truly no offense, but no further posts will be read by or responded to you

 

Your defensive presumptions are addressed below

 

"Will Upwork protect you from expecting anything other than lies from a person you expect (however hypothetically) to lie?"

    No one is expecting anyone to lie. I'm simply being scrupulous to verify the protection of a successful account.

 

 

"Will Upwork let you keep badgering the client with new requests till you get what you want?"

    While some freelancers may badger, there was no badgering (or even implied badgering) here. Note that I'm asking this question because this client is coming back to me for more work.

    By the way, if you bothered to interpret the reply sent to Preston, clearly I state that any further communication about the contract was primarily to get any further details I can on how I could have done better -- whether the rating was misapplied was secondary. This is constructive, polite, simple, and non-repetitive.

 

 

"Is a client who rated you poorly and then rates you worse likely to be persuaded by either you or Upwork to do any better by you?"

    A. No client gave me a bad rating, just an apparently inaccurate rating. B. This question has to do with deceit only. Upwork actually contains documentation on posting content that is misleading.

creativedigit
Community Guru
Wassim T Member Since: May 29, 2015
15 of 23

Dude unless the client has given you a very poor feedback in first place (like 1/5) and you're sure that he won't be able to provide an even poorer feedback then avoid giving the client that option again. If you're Top Rated then you can now benefit from removing one feedback/rating from your profile every 3 months and it won't count toward your JSS score anymore.

 

I never needed that feature quite honestly in over 120 different jobs. The client gave you a feedback and you should accept it no matter what.

 

The only time I used this feature was for a feedback I left on my client's profile. I delviered the work and she didn't pay the final payment (that was a Fixed Job with no payment protection and we agreed to go with 50/50 as payment terms). After the job has been completed I gave the client a poor feedback because she stopped responding to me and never paid my money even though she was a very nice person. After 3 months the client reverted back to me and said she's sorry but she thought that she's intentially paid me the whole amount and she wasn't checking her Upwork account because she barely uses it and she setup all emails she receives from Upwork to go on an Upwork folder which she didn't check for a long time. The client never complained about the feedback and nicely paid the remaining amount. I then suggested that she allows me to change the feedback so I can give her a more appropriate rating/feedback and she did so, then I changed the rating to excellent and provided a nice feedback. After that the client said it was a nice & fair decision from my end because she hasn't complained about the feedback, and she decided to pay me a bonus for being nice to her.

 

I think this feature exists for situations like the one that happened to me above, and you shouldn't be using this feature to convince a client that you need a better rating. Keep in mind also that ratings are subjective. While I think you deserve a rate of 3/5, someone else might think you did a stellar job and deserve a 5/5. I think it always depends on the quality of work you provide, sticking to deadline & communication, and lastly IMHO the other person's personality.

 

Best regards,
Wassim

a926ba54
Active Member
Phillip W Member Since: Jun 14, 2016
16 of 23

Thank you for the response. Given the risks for opening editing for feedback (e.g. It looks like the feedback remains open for editing if it is open once (or please correct me if this is wrong)), you may be right that you should accept feedback no matter what. I think it should go without saying (at this point) that I've never explicitly rejected a rating and have always been very careful and accommodating to clients when communicating about them, and they're never the primary focus of communication.

 

Comminucation would fall under the category of personality, I think, the rating of which I would never have an issue with. It's the ratings like availability and deadlines that are objectively verifiable (and, more so, deadlines).

rekasesh
Community Leader
Rekha S Member Since: Jul 13, 2015
17 of 23

@Phillip W wrote:

 

Comminucation would fall under the category of personality, I think, the rating of which I would never have an issue with. It's the ratings like availability and deadlines that are objectively verifiable (and, more so, deadlines).


I am more of a lurker in these forums but your latest comment got me thinking... 

 

As a blogger, I get invited to paid test jobs. Some have become long-term projects, some haven't.  Bear with me while I provide the background.

 

I happened to get three such invites in April, incidentally all three from Australian clients, All my milestones had a 3-day deadline for one researched blog post . I submitted work on time. I get the same rating -- 4.70 with a point chopped off for both deadlines and communication.

 

Here comes the best part: Out of the 6 other freelancers (3 jobs), three didn't get any rating or feedback, while three got the high five. Incidentally, neither client have awarded a regular blog assignment to anyone.

 

Now comes the questions:

(1) Did the trio submit the work within a day and the clients compared the time taken and decided to cut my points?

 

(2) Did the trio manage to create an auto-responder for the workroom and kept sending "I am working" message every 6 hours or so? Did my clients cut points because I didn't bother with handholding, and instead, focused on creating a quality post for each of them? 

 

(3) Should I beg them to change their obviously inaccurate rating for me?

 

The answer - clients are human at the end of the day, and you can't stop people from making emotional or prejudiced decisions, even if it affects your work.

 

What changed for me? I no longer accept paid test job invites.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
18 of 23

Rekha, I appreciate your post, and your willingness to share your story.

 

But your use of the R-word here is completely unwarranted and inappropriate. There is no need for that here, and putting that kind of "twist" on your story (to use your word) undermines your entire message. I suggest that you edit your post.

rekasesh
Community Leader
Rekha S Member Since: Jul 13, 2015
19 of 23

Hello Preston, 

 

I had no intention of offending anyone.... I was simply mentioning the thought process of an average freelancer who get a lower rating for the wrong reasons.

 

*Edited to add* Most of my clients are from Western countries, and I have a lot of online friends who from the US and Europe. I wouldn't be enjoying a smooth working or personal equation with them, if I thought on those lines.

 

Best,

Rekha 

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
20 of 23

Rekha, thank you for editing your post.

 

If base, coarse, or average people use language like that, there's no need for you to. You're better than that, and the Upwork Community Forum is better than that.

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