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jademilburn
Community Member

Upwork - Job Success Thread **title edited**

I want Community Forum Moderators to add to this thread, and really listen to what is going on.

 

I, like many others am sure have the same story.

 

I used to love Odesk, and got many job interviews each week. I had all 5 star feedback, and glowing written references from my clients. Then Odesk made alot of changes and introduced Job Success rate. I was shocked that mine was 67%. That was until I looked at other discussions and heard of other people who had five star feedback, lots of good references and yet had a very low job success rate.

 

This system is beyond unfair as

!)Upwork introduced new changes and a new feedback system. They should NOT include information that people believed was being entered anonymously, prior to the changes. The Job success rate includes information that clients did not think would be shown publicly. They left star feedback that would be shown publicly. You CANNOt use retroactive data for a new system.

2)Since the Job success rate has been started, I am now not getting invited to interview for ANY jobs, so how could I get my Job success rate, even if I tried?

 

You have made a very bad error with this.

 

Can every freelancer on this forum who wants to get rid of the job success rate feature, reply with 'Get rid', and lets see if they listen to us.

1,457 REPLIES 1,457
yitwail
Community Member

Joe, given you don't have a large number of completed jobs, 3 jobs with no feedback given is a lot. You might consider contacting those clients to see if they'll give you feedback. Going forward, do not close contracts yourself unless you accumulate a large number of open contracts without activity, because when the client closes the contract, they have to leave feedback, and a 'pattern' of closed contracts without feedback lowers Job Success.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
rainer_
Community Member

Thank you for the reply John. That puts me more at ease, thank you. I was concerned it may have been because of bad private feedback.

 

I have indeed already contacted the three clients in question and none of them responded. It seems to be a pattern in clients who don't use Upwork regularly for them to not leave feedback. This appears to be a huge flaw in the Job Success Score. It seems that freelancers are punished for non-responsive clients. Is there any way to counteract this?

yitwail
Community Member

Joe, assuming you can find this post after moderators merged your post into a different topic, you're welcome, and no, unless Upwork changes Job Success calculation, the most you can do is check the client's job history to see if he/she tends to leave feedback, but with a new client, that's impossible. Cat Sad So in essence, unless you're so amazing that the client cannot conceive of not leaving you feedback, your job didn't have a successful outcome as far as Upwork is concerned.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Hi Members,

 

I am very upset to see the calculations of Upwork Job Success Score.

 

Last Week I got @ 88% from 92% because of Only one 4 Star Feedback on a project. And It Posted me Direcly from 92 to 88 Job Success Score. 

And Then I started struggle more hardly. And In this Period, I got 5 Jobs in these 14 days and Every one gave me 5 Stars with high recommendation. I was feeling good that If 1 bad feedback can put me 4% down, Then 5 Nice Feedbacks will put me At least Above 90% Again. 

But, It shown 86% Job Success Score. It Shocked me that What the Heck is happening behind. 1 bad feedback is putting me down, and 5 Perfect feedbacks are Putting me more down. This is very Bad thing. 

 This is My one Bad Feedback Screenshot
Capture1.PNG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AND These are my good Feedback in Last 14 Days which i tried to make my Profile Upgrade. 

 

Screenshot2.jpg

 

Now i want to pull my hears that What the joke is this i met with?

 

I am very very very upset with upwork's job success score calculation. 
1. 4 star feedback can put you @ 88 from 92
But 5 Nice feedbacks put you more down instead of Increasing.. 

Very Bad Experience.

 

 

 

gerrys
Community Member

Working a 6 month project and getting a 100% approval rating, is not the same as working 10 one hour jobs with a 100% approval rating.

 

It's worth about 10 / 1000; or 1%

 

LOL

progsofts
Community Member

In These there is No one having 6 month's job. All are short job,Max 2 week duration to 1 month. Thats All

Or you mean to say that 1 bad feedback on Small job can put me down by 4% but to make me up 5 Same condition jobs with 5Stars are not necessary to go up back. And I have to get a 6Month job and 100% feedback there, Then i will be up.

 

Means 1 bad feedback Can destroy me. But 5 Good feedbacks on same duratin job can do nothin instead pulling me Up?? Is this you want to say??

It has a contact form on the website and now you can't have it on your profile. We all have to abide by the same rules. Besides the link is still there. 

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

First, the quote, while accurately stated, it is inaccurate in it's meaning. The coach is wrong about the definition of fairness, but beyond that, I'd like to know why having a link in one's profile is against guidelines. I know it is, I'm not asking if it is, but WHY it is. 

Freelancers depend on their portfolios - UpWork is not an employer, nor is it meant to weed out freelancers for clients (that's the hiring client's job).  Outside of plagarized or offensive content in a profile, how a freelancer presents themselves should be up to them.  UpWork has taken on a role that it was not meant to have - employer. They are simply a middleman offering a platform for freelancers of various talents to connect with clients. Anything else, and you place yourselves in the position of employer. That means - UW will be responsible for filing taxes, withholding FICA, Federal and State taxes. 

As a company who offers a platform for a fee - that's one thing, but once you start determining who is a worthy freelancer and who is not, you are no longer offering a platform.


Not liking a quote doesn't make it inaccurate. It's an opinion from a very highly respected man that I happen to have learned a lot from his teachings. 

 

With that said, the reason you can't post a link to your website in your profile is because most sites have a place for someone to contact you.  The ToS states that you can't have any contact information on your profile, hence you can't have your website on your profile if it has a Contact form or any other means of contacting you on it. 

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"
carl-roberts
Community Member

Ok, why is my job success score 88% when I have all five-star feedback????

It could be a number of things. Private feedback counts, closed contracts that couldn't be finished for any reason.

 

Question of MOD:

 

I thought it was impossible to have a JSS and a Rising Talent Badge. Is this new?

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

  1. No closed contracts other than "successfully completed."
  2. It looks like it might be because two of my clients have not left feedback: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068358-My-Job-Success-Score

I sort-of understand that, but come on.

 

One client I know will leave feedback in a day or so.

 

The other was a small project, and I haven't heard a peep since we closed the contract. I guess I will try to pester them for feedback.

 

 


@Carl R wrote:

 

One client I know will leave feedback in a day or so.

 

The other was a small project, and I haven't heard a peep since we closed the contract. I guess I will try to pester them for feedback.

 


 Before 'pestering' a client for feedback, you might consider whether this will annoy the client into giving you a less than glowing review. At the very least, why not wait for the other client's feedback and see how it affects JSS in 2 weeks, before proceeding to the pestering stage?

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Are you guys kidding me? Two weeks?

 

Dear Upwork, I am sorry, but I have been busy WORKING, not messing around trying to massage my JS score.

 

I WOULD NOT HIRE A FREELANCER WITH AN 88% JS SCORE.

 

I provide a premium service. You can see this from that fact that TWO clients have hired a Rising Talent freelancer for projects with more than a $1,000 budget.

 

I can't get PREMIUM clients with an 88% JS score!!!

 

I have only had five jobs on here. I have been busting it. Upwork has made hundreds of dollars off of me, and they are pulling this?

 

UNBELIEVABLE.

 

If you can't tell, I am incredibly ticked off.

 

I could understand the JS score being SLIGHTLY affected by no feedback, but 12%?

 

Again, UNBELIEVABLE.

Carl, it's ok. Sometimes it can be a bit frustrating when starting out here, but it's nothing that can't be overcome. 

 

Just because you wouldn't hire a freelancer with an 88% JSS doesn't mean that some clients won't. It's not that far below 90%, which is considered good (and the positive feedback that you hope to receive will likely boost it). 

 

Also, as was mentioned, getting no feedback isn't the only thing that affects JSS. Private feedback is also a factor. Though it might seem strange that a client who gave glowing public feedback would say otherwise privately, it does happen. 

 

As far as Upwork "pulling this," that's just how it works and how it has worked since who knows.... If you don't focus on JSS so much, the two weeks will pass quickly. And, more importantly, if you can properly position yourself in proposals and show that you know your stuff, you might be surprised to find a client who doesn't even take a second glance at that score. 

 

 

 

Ok, this did make me feel better.


@Carl R wrote:

I could understand the JS score being SLIGHTLY affected by no feedback, but 12%?

 

Again, UNBELIEVABLE.


 Calm down.

 

2 (closed without feedback) out of 5 is 40%

 

In future do ***NOT*** close contracts yourself, manage your clients and contracts in such a way that they close the contracts, which automatically means they leave feedback.

 

And there is no reason why you should not recocer from this easily.

Thank you. This also made me feel better.

 

As for having clients close the contract, what should I do if the client never closes the contract?


@Carl R wrote:

Thank you. This also made me feel better.

 

As for having clients close the contract, what should I do if the client never closes the contract?


 The "odd one"  won't hurt you once you have a safety net. They won't hurt you for months, so leave them until you have that safety net of successful ones.

 

The most important part is not to stress about your JSS. Concentrate on doing great work, and your JSS will take care of itself. Give it a few months and you'll likely agree.

 

 


@Carl R wrote:

 

I WOULD NOT HIRE A FREELANCER WITH AN 88% JS SCORE.

 

 

 


OK.

 

I would. And most clients seeing your profile would, and will, definitely. In few months, when your profile will display a solid 100% JSS, you will LOL about all this.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Thanks, Rene.

 

I do realize that I am being a baby about this. Smiley Frustrated

 

 

Hi,

 

My job success score has abruptly declined in an unlikely manner.  The Job success has declined from 100% to 87% due to a client's fault. A client promised to extend the milestone period but forgot. So afterwards the client corrected and sent apologies. How do I go about to rectify the issue I have tried to contact support on this issue but my efforts have been futile. Please assist me on how i should go about it.

 

With Regards.

Hi,

 

My job success score has abruptly declined in an unlikely manner.  The Job success has declined from 100% to 87% due to a client's fault. A client promised to extend the milestone period but forgot. So afterward the client corrected and sent apologies. How do I go about to rectify the issue I have tried to contact support on this issue but my efforts have been futile? Please assist me on how I should go about it.

 

With Regards.


@James L wrote:

Hi,

 

My job success score has abruptly declined in an unlikely manner.  The Job success has declined from 100% to 87% due to a client's fault. A client promised to extend the milestone period but forgot. So afterward the client corrected and sent apologies. How do I go about to rectify the issue I have tried to contact support on this issue but my efforts have been futile? Please assist me on how I should go about it.

 

With Regards.


James,

 

Are saying your client closed the contract?

 

Whether or not a client adds more milestones to the contract doesn't cause JSS to drop.

 

The number of successful contracts completed (closed) along with a client's public and private feedback are factors that impact JSS (among other weighted factors).

 

 

 

 

Carl, it's interesting how your post is a mix of talking about how little Upwork experience you have and telling the experienced freelancers who have completed dozens or hundreds of jobs and earned tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars here that they're wrong about what to expect, how to respond and how prospective clients will react.

 

You're not making a lot of sense, and your field suggest that you have the capacity for higher-level reasoning, so it seems that maybe you're panicking and lashing out in fear rather than taking a step back and gathering some perspective.

 

A few things to consider:

 

-JSS updates every two weeks, period. If you run out and harass your clients into leaving you feedback in the next ten minutes, you will still be waiting two weeks to see that reflected in your JSS.

 

-Clients who look at your profile see all those same things you were pointing out to us (mid-level budgets and 5-star ratings), so the 88% isn't nearly the handicap you seem to expect. Many experienced freelancers have reported no difference in response/hiring when their JSS dipped below 90%

 

-We don't know the exact percentage of jobs without feedback that has a negative impact, as there are other factors involved, but it seems to be about 30%. So, if one of your clients leaves feedback or you get another job or two with feedback, that impact may disappear.

 

-You can avoid jobs without feedback to a great degree by asking clients to close contracts rather than closing them yourself; if they close the job, they are required to leave feedback.

 

-You can't know whether you had any jobs marked other than "successfully completed," as that is part of the private feedback the client leaves. You may have good reason to expect that all were marked successfully completed, but you never see what the client has said.

JSS is very sensitive when you have few jobs. One more successful job and your JSS may raise again. Once you will have more jobs, JSS fluctuations will be less important.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Rene, see my reply to the other commenter.

Carl, I can see that you are frustrated.  The community members who responded are freelancers like you are also subject to the same mysterious JSS. Many have had their own concerns with this opaque formula.  Just saying...

 

One of the big factors that many freelancers overlook is private feedback from clients. The public feedback is 1-5 stars and the private is 1-10 stars. The 1-10 is obviously more nuanced and a client who feels shy about leaving less than glowing public feedback might feel bolder with private feedback. I think it often happens that a client may leave 5/5  on your profile because they are basically happy but may leave 7/10 or 8/10 in the private feedback because there may be one or two things they wish was different. I am not sure where Upwork makes their cutoff on the private feedback between positive and negative feedback. The biggest clue I have seen is in your "stats" tab under "clients who would recommend you" (it shows a percentage). If that number is less than 100% then it may be that you had some private feedback that was lower than your public feedback.

 

I would be surprised if two no feedback contracts made this difference. Upwork does say a. pattern of "no feedback" closures might count negatively. It just doesn't look like a clear pattern to me, even with your lower number of closures. Some of those clients might come through and leave feedback (if closed less than two weeks ago). But some may have actually left private feedback and that may be the actual problem.

 

Some clients do choose to leave no public feedback a with no public feedback. I've seen clients post about doing this in the client forum and it usually is the result of bad experiences in the past by freelancers who complain about their feedback. If you have less than 100% clients who would recommend and you are absolutely certain the other clients were thrilled with the work, maybe that is the issue. (I agree this is frustrating since as a freelancer you will never know so can't use that information to improve).

 

 

 

There are other possible factors if you read Upwork's description of how it is calculated. 88% is not too bad, I would just persist in doing good work since it will probably improve as you complete more contracts. Also, it is worth nurturing your existing client relationships since long-term and re-occurring clients can offer a nice boost to your JSS. 

yitwail
Community Member

This may sound like rubbing salt into a wound, adding insult to injury, blaming the victim, and so on, but OP probably made a tactical error closing contracts himself. For many freelancers, that's a last resort, because when the client closes a contract, he or she *must* leave 1-5 star feedback, although the client does have the option not to provide written comments. Letting the client close a contract, therefore, removes the onus of asking the client to provide feedback.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Feel free to rub salt in the wound. I accept the blame.

 

The tactical error that I made was to focus on doing good work instead of gaming the JS score.

 

I should have played the stupid game.

 

Instead, I am here complaining about how I chose to not play it.


@Carl R wrote:

 

The tactical error that I made was to focus on doing good work instead of gaming the JS score.

 

 


 I have never given a single moment's thought to JSS. My accidental score is currently 100% (which I learned when I saw your post and thought, "Oh, I guess JSS must have updated..." and went to check. Last I knew it was 98%, but I'm not sure how long ago that was.) This approach seems to be common to most of the successful freelancers here. 

Thanks, Samantha.

 

Yes, I am frustrated. That's a good point that everyone else is dealing with the same thing.

 

I just feel like I have come through for some clients on really tough projects, and the clients have been overwhelmingly positive.

 

Had a client left negative feedback, I would not be as ticked off.

 

Part of it is the fact that we don't know the cause and are just speculating.

 

Upwork's system of rating is just needlessly complicated. I think everyone can understand a 1 through 5-star rating.

 

Click 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. End of story.

 

Also, I have been focusing on doing real work for real clients. I guess I could have dinked around and completed "easy" jobs to get more of a buffer between me and these shenanigans. But again, I have been focusing on working, not on massaging a JS score.

 

Well, joke's on me.

 

I realize that you do not control this, so I am just whining.

 

I am going to try to stop whining now.

 

 

Carl, I remember you when, not so long ago, you came here with your brand new profile asking for advice. Within less than two months, you already managed to score 5 jobs, two of them hitting the $1k mark and your clients are happy. This is something that very few freelancers manage to achieve on Upwork. I am sincerely impressed.


But not surprised, though. From the beginning you demonstrated a very positive attitude and showed that you have true professional skills. I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that you are bound to a great success on Upwork.


Yes. You made a strategic mistake with the JSS algorithm which had a strong effect because your profile is new with only few jobs, which is why as I've already told you, your JSS is still sensitive. You learned something in the process and you will use this experience to make the best form Upwork.


You're upset today, which I can understand, I would be too.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Thanks again, Rene.

 

I don't feel like I am acting very professional at the moment, though.

 

You all helped me so much early on, and this is helping me again. Thanks.

Carl wrote earlier, "The tactical error that I made was to focus on doing good work instead of gaming the JS score."

 

The two are not mutually exclusive, and for what it's worth, I was a critic of Job Success the moment it was announced, and I specifically objected to lack of feedback having negative consequences, but given Upwork turned a deaf ear to such protests, I adapted to it as best I could. It goes without saying knowledge of what affects Job Success is pointless, if one's work isn't up to  snuff.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
zohaumar
Community Member

Hello, I have just ended a contract because the client was asking for too much work for very little pay. Given back the money, how much will it affect my JSS? I'm demoralized now! 😞

Hi Zoha,

 

The effect of the contract on your JSS will depend on client's feedback, your overall work history and other factors. In the future you may need to make sure that you discuss all the terms, workload, deadline and payment before you accept the offer in order to avoid misunderstanding.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Valeria,

 

Can you explain "other factors"?

 

I woke up to day to see my JSS score dropped from 100% to 95%.

I have no idea why.

If you can give me any concrete answers? 

 

Regards

 

 

Hi Stephen,

 

We won't be able to address your individual Job Success score here in the Community but we have shared a lot of information about what factors are included in the calculation in this help article, this blog post and on multiple threads here in the Community. Your JSS could change due to recent feedback from a client as well as an older feedback falling off of the calculation, the percentage of long term relationships or jobs without feedback changing, number of inactive jobs, etc.

~ Valeria
Upwork
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