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Re: JSS computation with additional feature

Active Member
Neil P Member Since: Oct 19, 2016
11 of 51

Hi Jennifer M. 

 

I've actually seen that and already considered it in reverse manner which is just equally bad as I was hoping it to be good, of course. However, if we take a look at my original post, I was actually hoping to get this important variable not a direct contribution to the JSS (though it really sounds like it is) but more of "reserve token" which can be accumulated from the "earning" value and not really from the feedback or rating given by the client or freelancer. The fact is, whatever rating or feedback that the client will give you, you still had brought yourself and the platform a certain amount of earning (same thing as the client). And this earning varies from project to project. Simpler one small earnings. But complex ones got big earnings. So, a freelancer as well as the client can accumulate these extra tokens depending on the "amount" of business they brought to the platform or Upwork. In time of need then, they can use these extra token or merits to use or help them boost their JSS... I hope I was able to express it clearer. It is like, the more you earn, the more business you brought to the platform, the more insured we can be. 

 

 

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
12 of 51

Neil P wrote:

Hi Jennifer M. 

 

I've actually seen that and already considered it in reverse manner which is just equally bad as I was hoping it to be good, of course. However, if we take a look at my original post, I was actually hoping to get this important variable not a direct contribution to the JSS (though it really sounds like it is) but more of "reserve token" which can be accumulated from the "earning" value and not really from the feedback or rating given by the client or freelancer. The fact is, whatever rating or feedback that the client will give you, you still had brought yourself and the platform a certain amount of earning (same thing as the client). And this earning varies from project to project. Simpler one small earnings. But complex ones got big earnings. So, a freelancer as well as the client can accumulate these extra tokens depending on the "amount" of business they brought to the platform or Upwork. In time of need then, they can use these extra token or merits to use or help them boost their JSS... I hope I was able to express it clearer. It is like, the more you earn, the more business you brought to the platform, the more insured we can be. 

 

 


I have no idea what a token is supposed to mean. I don't even understand what you're getting at in this post, but there's a 99.9% chance it's terrible. If you're trying to desperately figure out ways to get more connects, it's not gonna happen, sweaty.

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
13 of 51

Jennifer M wrote:

Neil P wrote:

Hi Jennifer M. 

 

I've actually seen that and already considered it in reverse manner which is just equally bad as I was hoping it to be good, of course. However, if we take a look at my original post, I was actually hoping to get this important variable not a direct contribution to the JSS (though it really sounds like it is) but more of "reserve token" which can be accumulated from the "earning" value and not really from the feedback or rating given by the client or freelancer. The fact is, whatever rating or feedback that the client will give you, you still had brought yourself and the platform a certain amount of earning (same thing as the client). And this earning varies from project to project. Simpler one small earnings. But complex ones got big earnings. So, a freelancer as well as the client can accumulate these extra tokens depending on the "amount" of business they brought to the platform or Upwork. In time of need then, they can use these extra token or merits to use or help them boost their JSS... I hope I was able to express it clearer. It is like, the more you earn, the more business you brought to the platform, the more insured we can be. 

 

 


I have no idea what a token is supposed to mean. I don't even understand what you're getting at in this post, but there's a 99.9% chance it's terrible. If you're trying to desperately figure out ways to get more connects, it's not gonna happen, sweaty.


He wants to be able to take on a huge, complex project and make hash of it, and then use a magic token to remove the bad fb. Because he would've earned money for UW--never mind the PO'd client who never comes back and tells all their friends.

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
14 of 51

Phyllis G wrote:


He wants to be able to take on a huge, complex project and make hash of it, and then use a magic token to remove the bad fb. Because he would've earned money for UW--never mind the PO'd client who never comes back and tells all their friends.


lol jeez. If these sweaties would just focus on making money instead of all the garbage distractions, they might have time to rub two brain cells together and go do something with their lives. Top Rated gets a perk to remove bad feedback (I guess this is a token?), and then if you get enough gigs you can really go nuclear on your profile and have a hard time going below 90%. The perk is great, and with it this is stuff you don't have to worry about. There are so many better things to worry about. For instance, it's dangerous to click on anything on reddit cuz those incel bastages keep trying to drop spoilers for Game of Thrones and I'm kinda pissed I accidentally clicked on one thread and saw one of the sentences and now I'm angry. These are legitimate concerns.

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
15 of 51

Jennifer M wrote:

Phyllis G wrote:


He wants to be able to take on a huge, complex project and make hash of it, and then use a magic token to remove the bad fb. Because he would've earned money for UW--never mind the PO'd client who never comes back and tells all their friends.


lol jeez. If these sweaties would just focus on making money instead of all the garbage distractions, they might have time to rub two brain cells together and go do something with their lives. Top Rated gets a perk to remove bad feedback (I guess this is a token?), and then if you get enough gigs you can really go nuclear on your profile and have a hard time going below 90%. The perk is great, and with it this is stuff you don't have to worry about. There are so many better things to worry about. For instance, it's dangerous to click on anything on reddit cuz those incel bastages keep trying to drop spoilers for Game of Thrones and I'm kinda pissed I accidentally clicked on one thread and saw one of the sentences and now I'm angry. These are legitimate concerns.


I just enjoy that I never know, when I wake up each day, where my morning's entertainment might come from.

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
16 of 51

Robert B wrote:

Hey Neil,

 

Don't sweat the trolls. There seems to be a contingent of posters on here who are way more focused on chastising and patronizing fellow freelancers than they are on being helpful.

 

In my opinion you've raised a good point, I'm sure there are others who will agree or at least see it as a valid query.


Mistaking (or intentionally mischaracterizing) forum members offering plain-spoken, candid comments as "trolls" is IMO a form of trollery. It's typically the last resort of people who can't muster a rational counter-argument.

 

troll (noun) :a person who intentionally antagonizes others online by posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troll

 

Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
17 of 51

Neil P wrote:
Just thinking if the case is worth considering? It could be anybody's case.

I believe upwork do change for the better. Who doesn't like that?

I'm not sure if this matter has already appeared in other community thread. I would love to hear other's opinion.

What if, at the end of your large contract, the client suddenly decides that they can use the leverage of that weighted score to ask for free work or a discount? Then, would you still want the large contract to count 10x that of the smaller one? One bad large contract would put your JSS so far down that you would need several small contracts to even begin to bring it back up. And, it would be very hard for you to get any contracts with a low JSS.  Best to be careful what you wish for. 

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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
18 of 51

Tonya P wrote:


I'm not sure if this matter has already appeared in other community thread. I would love to hear other's opinion.

One bad large contract would put your JSS so far down that you would need several small contracts to even begin to bring it back up. And, it would be very hard for you to get any contracts with a low JSS.  Best to be careful what you wish for. 


That is how the average star rating is / was calculated, it also weighs "quality" and "skills" twice as heavily as the other factors.

 

I remember getting nervous when a contract got big, because it meant that one human being had the power to essentially wipe out your freelancing career in one angry moment...

 

 

Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
19 of 51

It makes sense that higher-value, more complex projects should carry a greater proportional weight than lower-priced projects for a freelancer's JSS calculation.

 

If one contract accounts for 40% of a freelancer's revenue over the past year and another accounts for 4%, it makes no sense that both carry the same weight in calculating the freelancer's JSS.

 

This sort of weighting would likely be a more useful input for the JSS than the "long-term customers" measure we’re told is currently being used in calculating the JSS because total contract time for many projects doesn't reflect how much work by the freelancer was required on the project. (I recently asked some idle clients to close their projects with me if no further work was required. One involved a little over seven hours of work over nearly two months. Another was a paused project, on which I worked a total of about 15 hours over eight months.)

 

But no change is likely because the JSS is serving its purpose as a marketing tool to make clients happy. Freelancers should want clients to be happy and never forget the JSS system is not intended to be a useful feedback mechanism for freelancers. Useful feedback is clear and transparent, neither of which applies to the hidden key elements of the JSS.

Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
20 of 51

Will L wrote:

It makes sense that higher-value, more complex projects should carry a greater proportional weight than lower-priced projects for a freelancer's JSS calculation.

 

If one contract accounts for 40% of a freelancer's revenue over the past year and another accounts for 4%, it makes no sense that both carry the same weight in calculating the freelancer's JSS.

 

This sort of weighting would likely be a more useful input for the JSS than the "long-term customers" measure we’re told is currently being used in calculating the JSS because total contract time for many projects doesn't reflect how much work by the freelancer was required on the project. (I recently asked some idle clients to close their projects with me if no further work was required. One involved a little over seven hours of work over nearly two months. Another was a paused project, on which I worked a total of about 15 hours over eight months.)

 

But no change is likely because the JSS is serving its purpose as a marketing tool to make clients happy. Freelancers should want clients to be happy and never forget the JSS system is not intended to be a useful feedback mechanism for freelancers. Useful feedback is clear and transparent, neither of which applies to the hidden key elements of the JSS.


You aren't implying that a 2-month contract or a contract that remained idle but for which payments hadn't been received for 15 months are counted as long-term contracts are you? That would be a bit misleading. I believe the minimum qualifications for a long-term contract are 3 months and regular payments. If I understand the process correctly, a contract for which a payment was received in month 2 which remained open with no additional payments for 13 additional months, for example, would not qualify as long-term. 

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