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Re: JSS

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Ace Contributor
Patricia S Member Since: Sep 28, 2016
871 of 4,800

Talk about condescending... 

 

Virtually every legitimate complaint here is met with a sanctimonious, officious, bully pulpit response that's intended to shame the recipient and shut down the conversation. 

 

Since this thread is already 50-something pages long, my guess is that hasn't worked so well. 

 

 

 

 

Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
872 of 4,800

@Patricia S wrote:

Talk about condescending... 

 

Virtually every legitimate complaint here is met with a sanctimonious, officious, bully pulpit response that's intended to shame the recipient and shut down the conversation. 

 

Since this thread is already 50-something pages long, my guess is that hasn't worked so well. 

 

_____________________________

I really don't think anybody likes the JSS, but no matter how legitimate a complaint seems, it is something that Upwork has absolutely no intention of abandoning, so we have to make the best of it and make it work for us (individually). As Craig said earlier, hundreds of freelancers do perfectly well with a JSS of 80 and under. And however unpopular it is, there has to be some sort of benchmark for both freelancer and client on a platform of this kind.

 

There is absolutely no point in ranting and raving about unfair feedback,when it is possible that it was deserved, or that a client, on principle, does not give 100% reviews. Perhaps the best way of recovering a JSS, is to do a little self-analysis, to  rethink one's work strategy, and one's approach to finding the right sort of client. 

 

 

 


 

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Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
873 of 4,800

@Patricia S wrote:

In a previous discussion, I was told eventually feedback falls off your profile and JSS. I have an old 2 from the fall of 2016 that is still there (from a client who wanted a refund when I refused to completely rewrite an ebook with new content for free after she approved all the previous milestones--we compromised on a significantly reduced fee). I noticed my JSS went down nearly 10 points recently when I received a high 4 rating. I really don't believe this was based on the so-called "private feedback." 

 

It's pretty much useless to have a JSS below 90% these days, because no one will look at your application, and you don't get invitations to jobs. 

 

I have had many other jobs since the 2, but a number of them haven't left feedback, and I have 5 open contracts, which in UW's infinite wisdom hurt your JSS. Do old ratings fall off your JSS by time or by the number of jobs with feedback you've had in the interim?

 

So, so tired of this nonsense. 


 I really, really hear your frustration but please know it is possible to get quality work with a lower score. When I tanked to 86 (two issues, one squarely my fault, mismanagement, it was a learning curve) I kept getting offers and I also got my one client who is now going on four months of steady work.

 

It was effort on my part and I have had my "I'm scared, work is not coming in" moments for sure but I didn't drop my rate and my JSS has gone back up a bit. It can be done. 

 

I really do hear you. But it is in UW's best interest to make more money so I don't believe they are trying to drive rates down. They would make less in that case.

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Patricia S Member Since: Sep 28, 2016
874 of 4,800

Thank you. It's nice to get a non-Kool Aid drinker response here. 

 

The one bad score I have is because of a client who basically wanted a project completely redone after signing off on and paying for all the milestones until the last one. She wanted a book rewritten with all new material for free, and I refused to do it, so she demanded a refund. UW sided with the client and pushed me to settle for a pittance for the job. Then she left bad feedback to boot. There's no protection for workers here. Milestones are useless with a capricious refund process. Who can afford to go to arbitration over this nonsense?

 

Regarding private feedback, what is the purpose of even asking for feedback if the client can simply say something completely negative in private? I don't understand how clients are being "bullied" by workers into giving good feedback. How would that even work? The idea that the clients need to be protected from workers so that "real" scores can be tallied is ludicrous. There's a weird cult of workers here who think that somehow most workers are conning the system and being rated much higher than they deserve. 

 

A bigger issue for me is that there are multiple threads on here where mods or gurus say that open contracts and lack of client feedback lower the JSS. So which is it? Why is that being walked back now when people start to complain about it? Why aren't we privy to the algorithm that determines our score? 

 

Patting workers on the head and telling them not to worry, they'll still find work, is like telling someone whose FICO score just dropped 20 points that they'll still be able to get credit. Maybe so, but the terms will be much worse, and that's the same thing that happens to people here. If the JSS is so unimportant to obtaining work, why don't they just do away with it entirely?

 

 

 

 

 

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Community Guru
Eric B Member Since: Feb 21, 2017
875 of 4,800

@Melanie H wrote:

@Patricia S wrote:

In a previous discussion, I was told eventually feedback falls off your profile and JSS. I have an old 2 from the fall of 2016 that is still there (from a client who wanted a refund when I refused to completely rewrite an ebook with new content for free after she approved all the previous milestones--we compromised on a significantly reduced fee). I noticed my JSS went down nearly 10 points recently when I received a high 4 rating. I really don't believe this was based on the so-called "private feedback." 

 

It's pretty much useless to have a JSS below 90% these days, because no one will look at your application, and you don't get invitations to jobs. 

 

I have had many other jobs since the 2, but a number of them haven't left feedback, and I have 5 open contracts, which in UW's infinite wisdom hurt your JSS. Do old ratings fall off your JSS by time or by the number of jobs with feedback you've had in the interim?

 

So, so tired of this nonsense. 


 I really, really hear your frustration but please know it is possible to get quality work with a lower score. When I tanked to 86 (two issues, one squarely my fault, mismanagement, it was a learning curve) I kept getting offers and I also got my one client who is now going on four months of steady work.

 

It was effort on my part and I have had my "I'm scared, work is not coming in" moments for sure but I didn't drop my rate and my JSS has gone back up a bit. It can be done. 

 

I really do hear you. But it is in UW's best interest to make more money so I don't believe they are trying to drive rates down. They would make less in that case.


You're right: a few months ago I touched hell with my hands and know what? It burns as hell (logical!)

and I said to myself: you got 2 solutions "either you let it go or you improve". I chose the 2º solution and worked as a dog. 

 

vacations? what is that?

weekends? heard about it

 

It took a great amount of time and I was depressed to watch my JSS drop to 86% but since then it improved to 89% and 92% and 95% and 97% and 99% right now. It took 2-3 months but I had to move on and improved myself. I recognized my bad choices (bad client, very impatient, low rates => not my clients anymore, not my thing, not my segment)

 

I was thinking: "all right, right now I'm in hell but tomorrow, you, bad client, I will thank you". you know what? right now, I'm thanking him.

 

next thinking: in 1 year, I'll be laughing at how little I'm earning right now. I'll be much better, a lot better. 

 

Do me a favor, go to my profile and observe my last feedback, you'll see!!!!

 

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Patricia S Member Since: Sep 28, 2016
876 of 4,800

I think if you screwed up with a client or if your work is subpar, sure, go ahead and dig in to get better. 

 

But I'm certainly not thanking bad clients for making me give up weekends and vacations to raise my stupid JSS. I'm sorry, that's just too self-flagellating. 

 

No one should be working surgeons hours for the crappy pay that most clients offer here. I'm not writing ebooks for $50 or 60 blog posts for $5 apiece to build my rating back up, praying they don't leave bad feedback and start the whole thing over again. 

 

My rating based on stars should be 88% even with one awful client. Private feedback, open contracts, and lack of feedback are not something I can ever fix, no matter how hard I work. It's ridiculous that only clients can close hourly contracts, even if they have been inactive for over a year. UW can always drop your JSS because of something you have no control over. I used to be 100% and had offers every day in my mailbox. At 80%, I'm confident most clients don't even open my applications. Every open job I've looked at today that paid a decent rate wanted a JSS above 90% and rising talent. Every. Single. One. 

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Anton A Member Since: Dec 12, 2017
877 of 4,800

That's a shame that your profile pic with the horse got censored. It's a really nice picture. 

 

The horse is just an extension of the whole JSS night-mare. Upwork is too rigid and heavy-handed. Perhaps some will consider this professional or useful for hiring freelancers, but my personal preference would be an open-source-style service where everything is out in the open, like the reviews and the scores, and you can have any picture you want. If for some reason you want to use a picture of your pet hampster and think this will get you more jobs, go for it. 

 

Rigidity, inflexibility, and secrecy are poor selling points for a company attempting to create a new hiring and working paradigm. It never creates a competitive advantage, in my opinion. 

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Patricia S Member Since: Sep 28, 2016
878 of 4,800

Thank you for the kind words. 

 

I had to laugh because the email that notified me of the offending pic came from "trust and safety." 

 

And my post about this is now not showing in the thread. Did I miss it? If not, that's creepy. 

 

I agree, this is no way to run a business. I like your open-source idea with a more transparent administration. 

 

I don't do much work here, except when people invite me, but I just moved and would like some extra cash. In going after jobs again, I looked at my profile and realized with horror that my JSS had dropped yet again since getting good feedback. 

 

I'll probably just close my account if no one responds to the last set of applications I sent out. 

 

 

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Anton A Member Since: Dec 12, 2017
879 of 4,800

Well, just hang in there, if you can Smiley Happy I had a client that was completely unreasonable, in my opinion. I pushed back, and they pushed back. This escalated to a fairly nasty place. Finally, we decided to be adults about it and talk it out on the phone. It was a nice conversation and we both agreed that this could have been handled better by both sides. Then the client sheepishly asks me "well... uhhh... how are we going to deal with the whole rating thing?" I figured they wanted to make sure I didn't rate them poorly, and I said, sure - we worked this out, let's let it go. I left them excellent feedback, private and public. They left me four stars publically and something apparently horrific in private because my JSS dropped 18 points. I've struggled for many months with fewer job invited and fewer interviews. After I think about 6 or 8months and four new 5-star jobs, my JSS finally crawled above 90. 

Low JSS is certainly not the end of the world, but it does make for a more miserable Upwork experience. I like Upwork enough to continue using it, but the way this place is set up is not conducive to happy healthy human interaction. It's like a job that's OK, but you don't really enjoy going there every day because there's potential nastiness hiding behind every corner.

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Active Member
AHMED H Member Since: Apr 27, 2016
880 of 4,800

No, JSS is very important. From my opnion its what we really gain.

 

Sometime I can give up from getting money but I cannot do that with the Feedback. Fair (I won't say good) will get more money but more money won't get Feedback (Do it get!!! Smiley Very Happy Money do everything in fact but not in my case wiith its not too much)

 

Simply, JSS make me sad and I really feel bad. 

 

What are you saying man! 

 

How does it feel to work for month and get 0 payment and project closed without he even say that to you with negative feedback?

 

That is really hurts me! I did a good job, I was care and worry about the project and I treated like that!

 

Pfff

 

I feel too old for that!!

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