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Re: Job Success Score Dropped without any bad feedback

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Moderator
Goran V Moderator Member Since: Mar 24, 2017
81 of 4,093

Hi Adeel,

Private feedback is included in the calculation as well. 
The JSS is calculated in 6-12 and 24 moths windows, if some of your good feedback are pushed out of this windows it will slightly go lower.

You can focus on finishing smaller fixed price contracts so that they are included in your calculation little bit faster.


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M. Adeel G Member Since: Sep 5, 2017
82 of 4,093

I recently accepted a contract but then client ask for more work than he mentioned in job description so i just refunded him full amount even though i worked for him a little because I just not wanted that contract to affect my profile. I think my success score went down because of that contract. Other than this contract every client ended contracts happily. Is theres any way to see for which contract my job score dropped? 

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Wahidul Islam M Member Since: Aug 31, 2017
83 of 4,093

I think this one is one of the major cause behind the JSS drop.

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M. Adeel G Member Since: Sep 5, 2017
84 of 4,093

In that case, what should we do as a freelancer if client ask for more work than mentioned? I read in articles that it will not affect your profile if you refund the full amount to client, so i just refunded him. Even then if it affect my success sore then thats insane!

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Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
85 of 4,093

@M. Adeel G wrote:

In that case, what should we do as a freelancer if client ask for more work than mentioned? I read in articles that it will not affect your profile if you refund the full amount to client, so i just refunded him. Even then if it affect my success sore then thats insane!


 Which articles? It's fairly well known that refunding a client will remove the feedback from your profile so the contract is no longer visible, but that the outcome of the contract will still count towards your JSS.

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Brian F Member Since: Jun 4, 2013
86 of 4,093

"Which articles? It's fairly well known that refunding a client will remove the feedback from your profile so the contract is no longer visible, but that the outcome of the contract will still count towards your JSS."

 

UMM Clearly is't NOT well known. And that's just BS.  Even after a full refund it still counts against you?  the definition of unfair, especially since that was identified prior to JSS being instiuted as a way to remove negative feedback so it would not hurt you.  If I got a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I am then SATISFIED.  SUCCESS!  That is a fair outcome.

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Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
87 of 4,093

Brian F wrote:

"Which articles? It's fairly well known that refunding a client will remove the feedback from your profile so the contract is no longer visible, but that the outcome of the contract will still count towards your JSS."

 

UMM Clearly is't NOT well known. And that's just BS.  Even after a full refund it still counts against you?  the definition of unfair, especially since that was identified prior to JSS being instiuted as a way to remove negative feedback so it would not hurt you.  If I got a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I am then SATISFIED.  SUCCESS!  That is a fair outcome.


 If I go to a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I may or may not be completely satisfied. How inconvenient was it to return the defective product and secure my refund? Did I suffer any damage trying to use the defective product? Was that compensated? Was I able to obtain a replacement product, from that merchant or another? How inconvenient was that? 

 

I recently had a sub-contractor screw up part of a project. (Not an UW project) They ultimately repeated the faulty part of the work at no charge and I was able to piece together a deliverable, but it cost me considerable time and a bit of embarrassment with my client. So the financial part of the arrangement worked out but I am far from satisifed and don't plan to use that vendor every again.

 

In any case, "fairness" is an irrelevant factor in your relationship with UW. It's a business tool. Use it if it suits you, don't use it if it doesn't. 

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Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
88 of 4,093

No one who has ever owned or managed a successful business would simply say to a customer with a legitimate beef about a product or service - a beef being heard from many customers - "...use if it suits you, don't use it if it doesn't."

 

The JSS is a blackbox algorithm that is primarily intended to be a marketing tool for Upwork. There's nothing wrong with that, but allowing secret information (such as private feedback) or other elements the freelancer has no control over to have a major impact on the JSS is just plain wrong.

 

Unless clients - who are mostly fat, dumb and happy when it comes to how the JSS is calculated or what it "means" - complain to Upwork, it appears no changes will be made. 

 

 

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Brian F Member Since: Jun 4, 2013
89 of 4,093

" If I go to a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I may or may not be completely satisfied. How inconvenient was it to return the defective product and secure my refund? Did I suffer any damage trying to use the defective product? Was that compensated? Was I able to obtain a replacement product, from that merchant or another? How inconvenient was that? 

 

I recently had a sub-contractor screw up part of a project. (Not an UW project) They ultimately repeated the faulty part of the work at no charge and I was able to piece together a deliverable, but it cost me considerable time and a bit of embarrassment with my client. So the financial part of the arrangement worked out but I am far from satisifed and don't plan to use that vendor every again.

 

In any case, "fairness" is an irrelevant factor in your relationship with UW. It's a business tool. Use it if it suits you, don't use it if it doesn't. "

To be fair to you, I oversimplified.  But the fact of the matter is that if the store offers something in rturn for you your troubles, that affecs how upset and how satisfied you are.  JSS doesn't allow for any nuance, or for the fact that you offered a full-refund mitigate the damage.  THAT. IS. WRONG.  And course fair matters, this isn't the Dark Ages or the Wild West. Aren't we civilzied?

I am simply asking average client satisffaction to bereflected in the only score that Upwork presents to possibe clients.  Presenting something that reflects a whole lot of other complicated things, including things outside a freelancer's control, to clients who have no clue about that JSS does and just assume it represents how good or how bad your work is and will never ever bother to look into it past that, to have that be the sole major indicator presented to clients, is just wrong, amoral, and inethical.  But from the way you expressed your rather medeival worldviews, I wouldn't expect you to agree, nor understand.  Call me crazy but how you treat people matters.  How clients treat freelancers, how freelaneers treat clients, how platofrms treat BOTH does matter.  We truly do have some antitrust issues here beause Upwork almost has a near-monopoly: it's the only freelancing platform of its scale, so we don't have a realistic option most of the time to vote with ou feet, to not use it.  I have 5 years of work history on this (only 2 of which count FOR me), and no practical way to begin on another platform and be competitive or draw business.  But I guess you don't understand that.  I actually hope you go through what somof us have so you can educate yourself and broaden your perspecive.  Your current perspective lack empathy and sympathy, and just assumes that since you've had no major problems that no one else has any excuses and that there are not serious problems with the plaform.  What you are see in in these forums, Phyllis, is that reality is a great deal more complicated. 

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Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
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 " I actually hope you go through what somof us have so you can educate yourself and broaden your perspecive.  Your current perspective lack empathy and sympathy, and just assumes that since you've had no major problems that no one else has any excuses and that there are not serious problems with the plaform.  What you are see in in these forums, Phyllis, is that reality is a great deal more complicated. "

Brian, I've never said there are not serious problems with the platform. I just don't agree with you about what they are. Nor is it the case that I have not had "major problems". I just choose to learn from bad experiences and adjust my strategy to meet the situation head-on, instead of deciding that I've been victimized by the system. 

 

What I see in forum discussions with increasing frequency are people who really have no business trying to freelance until they develop a better understanding of what it means. But that's a whole different rabbit hole. 

 

The JSS is not perfect, but it is NOT the end-all/be-all when it comes to landing projects. Especially for anyone with some positive job history, the most important factors are an appealing profile and compelling proposals. UW is never going to overhaul the JSS. But FLs who are struggling can overhaul their own profiles and proposal tactics and that will make a difference for them.

 

Then again, I guess it boils down to whether you'd rather make a living or make a point.

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