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JSS

Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
61 of 2,562

@M. Adeel G wrote:

In that case, what should we do as a freelancer if client ask for more work than mentioned? I read in articles that it will not affect your profile if you refund the full amount to client, so i just refunded him. Even then if it affect my success sore then thats insane!


 Which articles? It's fairly well known that refunding a client will remove the feedback from your profile so the contract is no longer visible, but that the outcome of the contract will still count towards your JSS.

Community Guru
Brian F Member Since: Jun 4, 2013
62 of 2,562

"Which articles? It's fairly well known that refunding a client will remove the feedback from your profile so the contract is no longer visible, but that the outcome of the contract will still count towards your JSS."

 

UMM Clearly is't NOT well known. And that's just BS.  Even after a full refund it still counts against you?  the definition of unfair, especially since that was identified prior to JSS being instiuted as a way to remove negative feedback so it would not hurt you.  If I got a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I am then SATISFIED.  SUCCESS!  That is a fair outcome.

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
63 of 2,562

Brian F wrote:

"Which articles? It's fairly well known that refunding a client will remove the feedback from your profile so the contract is no longer visible, but that the outcome of the contract will still count towards your JSS."

 

UMM Clearly is't NOT well known. And that's just BS.  Even after a full refund it still counts against you?  the definition of unfair, especially since that was identified prior to JSS being instiuted as a way to remove negative feedback so it would not hurt you.  If I got a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I am then SATISFIED.  SUCCESS!  That is a fair outcome.


 If I go to a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I may or may not be completely satisfied. How inconvenient was it to return the defective product and secure my refund? Did I suffer any damage trying to use the defective product? Was that compensated? Was I able to obtain a replacement product, from that merchant or another? How inconvenient was that? 

 

I recently had a sub-contractor screw up part of a project. (Not an UW project) They ultimately repeated the faulty part of the work at no charge and I was able to piece together a deliverable, but it cost me considerable time and a bit of embarrassment with my client. So the financial part of the arrangement worked out but I am far from satisifed and don't plan to use that vendor every again.

 

In any case, "fairness" is an irrelevant factor in your relationship with UW. It's a business tool. Use it if it suits you, don't use it if it doesn't. 

Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
64 of 2,562

No one who has ever owned or managed a successful business would simply say to a customer with a legitimate beef about a product or service - a beef being heard from many customers - "...use if it suits you, don't use it if it doesn't."

 

The JSS is a blackbox algorithm that is primarily intended to be a marketing tool for Upwork. There's nothing wrong with that, but allowing secret information (such as private feedback) or other elements the freelancer has no control over to have a major impact on the JSS is just plain wrong.

 

Unless clients - who are mostly fat, dumb and happy when it comes to how the JSS is calculated or what it "means" - complain to Upwork, it appears no changes will be made. 

 

 

Community Guru
Brian F Member Since: Jun 4, 2013
65 of 2,562

" If I go to a store and get a full refund on a defective product, I may or may not be completely satisfied. How inconvenient was it to return the defective product and secure my refund? Did I suffer any damage trying to use the defective product? Was that compensated? Was I able to obtain a replacement product, from that merchant or another? How inconvenient was that? 

 

I recently had a sub-contractor screw up part of a project. (Not an UW project) They ultimately repeated the faulty part of the work at no charge and I was able to piece together a deliverable, but it cost me considerable time and a bit of embarrassment with my client. So the financial part of the arrangement worked out but I am far from satisifed and don't plan to use that vendor every again.

 

In any case, "fairness" is an irrelevant factor in your relationship with UW. It's a business tool. Use it if it suits you, don't use it if it doesn't. "

To be fair to you, I oversimplified.  But the fact of the matter is that if the store offers something in rturn for you your troubles, that affecs how upset and how satisfied you are.  JSS doesn't allow for any nuance, or for the fact that you offered a full-refund mitigate the damage.  THAT. IS. WRONG.  And course fair matters, this isn't the Dark Ages or the Wild West. Aren't we civilzied?

I am simply asking average client satisffaction to bereflected in the only score that Upwork presents to possibe clients.  Presenting something that reflects a whole lot of other complicated things, including things outside a freelancer's control, to clients who have no clue about that JSS does and just assume it represents how good or how bad your work is and will never ever bother to look into it past that, to have that be the sole major indicator presented to clients, is just wrong, amoral, and inethical.  But from the way you expressed your rather medeival worldviews, I wouldn't expect you to agree, nor understand.  Call me crazy but how you treat people matters.  How clients treat freelancers, how freelaneers treat clients, how platofrms treat BOTH does matter.  We truly do have some antitrust issues here beause Upwork almost has a near-monopoly: it's the only freelancing platform of its scale, so we don't have a realistic option most of the time to vote with ou feet, to not use it.  I have 5 years of work history on this (only 2 of which count FOR me), and no practical way to begin on another platform and be competitive or draw business.  But I guess you don't understand that.  I actually hope you go through what somof us have so you can educate yourself and broaden your perspecive.  Your current perspective lack empathy and sympathy, and just assumes that since you've had no major problems that no one else has any excuses and that there are not serious problems with the plaform.  What you are see in in these forums, Phyllis, is that reality is a great deal more complicated. 

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
66 of 2,562


 " I actually hope you go through what somof us have so you can educate yourself and broaden your perspecive.  Your current perspective lack empathy and sympathy, and just assumes that since you've had no major problems that no one else has any excuses and that there are not serious problems with the plaform.  What you are see in in these forums, Phyllis, is that reality is a great deal more complicated. "

Brian, I've never said there are not serious problems with the platform. I just don't agree with you about what they are. Nor is it the case that I have not had "major problems". I just choose to learn from bad experiences and adjust my strategy to meet the situation head-on, instead of deciding that I've been victimized by the system. 

 

What I see in forum discussions with increasing frequency are people who really have no business trying to freelance until they develop a better understanding of what it means. But that's a whole different rabbit hole. 

 

The JSS is not perfect, but it is NOT the end-all/be-all when it comes to landing projects. Especially for anyone with some positive job history, the most important factors are an appealing profile and compelling proposals. UW is never going to overhaul the JSS. But FLs who are struggling can overhaul their own profiles and proposal tactics and that will make a difference for them.

 

Then again, I guess it boils down to whether you'd rather make a living or make a point.

Moderator
Goran V Moderator Member Since: Mar 24, 2017
67 of 2,562

Hi Adeel,

Unfortunately no, the private feedback will remain as private as well. But this is not a huge drop, just keep focusing on finishing projects with great otucome and you will get back up to %100 JSS again.


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Active Member
M. Adeel G Member Since: Sep 5, 2017
68 of 2,562

Thanks Goran! Yes its not a huge drop but i was just surprised to see it drop because i thought all my clients were happy with my work but i think some of them didn't give me good private revirews!

Community Guru
Vonda S Member Since: Aug 30, 2017
69 of 2,562

I got a 79% the job score percentage recommends 90%, they won't look at my score at all.  What do I need to do?

Community Guru
Brian F Member Since: Jun 4, 2013
70 of 2,562

"I got a 79% the job score percentage recommends 90%, they won't look at my score at all.  What do I need to do?"

 

ALERT  The system needs to be fixed so this NEVER happens.  We don't need an explanation.  We need a fix, and "explanation" for that is just disrespectful.  FIX this very problematic system!!!

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