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Job Success, ongoing work and other serious issues

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Active Member
Anamul n Member Since: Oct 10, 2015
21 of 40

Hi Jeremy,

You are luckier than me. Please take a look at my profile and tell me how 44% job success make sense. Also sometime clients doesn't bother to leave feedback. Even when you remind them.

 

So how does that count in JSS. But even with that, my 44% doesn't make sense. I would have accepted it graciously if my service was bad or even average.

 

Also, I believe they count it against you if you are not earning a nice amount each week.

 

The JSS doesn't reflect customer satisfaction.  It reflects "Upwork satisfaction". 

 

Saying that my 44% is result of client experience is totaly absurd and out of line.

 

Thanks,

Anamul

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Active Member
Vlad R Member Since: Jul 4, 2015
22 of 40

Garnor, how does Upwork manage that situation? I have several clients who simply did not leave any feedback for my work, even though I asked them to in our communications.

Why are freelancers penalized for clients who are unwilling to provide this feedback? It is far more likely for a client to give no feedback out of convenience or laziness, not because the work was bad.

Why should they provide feedback, after all? They are not incentivized to, they are not obligated to. They will still find freelancers to perform work regardless of their activity. But freelancers penalized for client laziness will find work harder and harder to get.

It doesn't matter that "a few no-feedback jobs won't affect your score too much". They shouldn't affect it at all.

Upwork should encourage/incentivize clients to leave feedback always. It helps the freelancers improve their work, it helps the system track job success better and it doesn't screw anybody up.

I'm also concerned that potential clients see that job success as a bigger indicator of the freelancer's skill than they should. Being the first thing on top of a freelancer profile, hierarchically they will think it's the most important stat, and any client receving 50+ applications will surely start skimming through them based on that score alone. 

If the job success score is that important to the system, it needs to be fixed to take into account all the above grievances (and more, there are tons of posts about how screwed up the rating is). If it's not that important, it needs to be placed elsewhere, clients are need to be told it's not an indicator of the quality of work and it probably needs a better name.

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Miho A Member Since: Jul 5, 2015
23 of 40

I agreed with Vlad. If no feedbacks affect our Job Success, Odesk needs to do more to make sure that clients complete feedback.

I had JS of 72 or something like that a month ago. This was the first time I noticed (or did not pay attention before) JS on my profile and I was shocked. All clients were happy and thanked me the works I did. Last night when I checked, my JS dropped to 68.

I was shocked again.

 

I have many clients who simply did not leave feedback even after they said they liked my work and were appreciative, and even after I respectfully asked them to leave their feedback. They just simply did not. I cannot force them.

 

Another thing was that I ended several contracts after my clients paid me and thanked me, but did not end contracts, or just simply there were no directions for future projects (or their accounts were suspended...). I waited for at least 3-4 months but wanted to keep my activity current per Odesk's suggestions, so decided to clean up my job activity. I did not know that I will be penalized by doing so. If I knew that I would not do that... although it does not represent my current job activities (like current job of 25! it is not accurate.)

 

I do not know how to go about this. JS rate of 68 really looks bad but I did not have that level of bad experiences. The feedbacks that my clients left were always 5 stars. Only hope is that someone on other post said his JS dropped to 58 then two weeks later climbed up to 80's then now 100. So hopefully mine does the same things. ( I am not sure what he did to improve his JS nor I am not sure if he even knew...)

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Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
24 of 40

Yeah, I've seen the complaints from people being suspended. Kinda scary from an outsider perspective. But, there's got to be a lot more to it than we see. I'm sure you won't make Upwork very happy if you're banking a lot of dough and they find out that most of it's been taken off the platform. 

 

I've had a lot of customers offer PayPal payments for cheaper rates. I don't think it's malicious. Some of them just don't like Elance. But, I really like the escrow platform, so I always say "No, I'd rather keep it with escrow." I've actually brought customers TO the site just for the escrow. lol I think it's awesome peace of mind.

 

However, when I was hiring non-stop for Udemy, I had people offer PayPal to me a lot. I got to see things from the other angle. 

 

So between all the customers offering it to me and all the providers offering it, I think it probably happens a lot and possibly they are trying to crack down. Can't blame them, right? I suspect that a lot of the suspensions are based on something like that, and you gotta think of it from their point of view. It's something that takes money from their pockets, so they probably aren't too happy about it when they see it.

 

Not saying there isn't that bit of worry about getting caught up in friendly fire. I just think it's more of an exception to the rule than "all these providers are falsely accused."

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Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
25 of 40

@Jennifer M wrote:

Elance's recommended rate seems to coincide with Upwork's JS.

 


 "Coincide" is the correct word, and only in specific instances. They do not correspond. Recommend rate is only one factor in calculating Job Success rate.

 

You are right that revenue is a major factor. How it factors is more complicated. One would do well to listen more carefully to Upwork's relatively scant and recent explications, and the insights of those with more experience, and rely less on one's presumptions and reasoning.

 

Best,

Michael

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Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
26 of 40

Douglas Michael M wrote:


 "Coincide" is the correct word, and only in specific instances. They do not correspond. Recommend rate is only one factor in calculating Job Success rate.

 

You are right that revenue is a major factor. How it factors is more complicated. One would do well to listen more carefully to Upwork's relatively scant and recent explications, and the insights of those with more experience, and rely less on one's presumptions and reasoning.

 

Best,

Michael


 

They say it affects but they don't say how much. They tell us status reports affect rating too and I don't think I've ever submitted a status report.

 

I doubt very much that "jobs with no feedback" are the only trigger for a review. There's always some grey in there that either are a part of the secret sauce or possibly misunderstood.

 

I'm sure they know that there are a lot of customers who just don't want to bother leaving feedback. 

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Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
27 of 40

Jennifer M wrote:

They say it affects but they don't say how much. They tell us status reports affect rating too and I don't think I've ever submitted a status report.

I doubt very much that "jobs with no feedback" are the only trigger for a review. There's always some grey in there that either are a part of the secret sauce or possibly misunderstood.

I'm sure they know that there are a lot of customers who just don't want to bother leaving feedback. 


Jennifer, you're equivocating. There are no status reports on Upwork. There is no Job Success score on Elance. The analogies are few, far between, and necessarily imperfect. Conjecture all you like. Dismiss the experience and information here if it suits you. It's your lookout.

 

Best,

Michael

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Ashish M Member Since: Jun 13, 2008
28 of 40

@Aleksandra

 

Hi Aleksandra,

 

So if client is not doing his work properly a freelancer would be penalized for it???? Knowing the fact that a freelancer would always work with a client in a virtual set up, is it not an irrational assumption that if a client does not do his work properly a freelancer hold the responsibility?

 

I mean a freelancer can only request a client to do the needful, but it is upto the client if he really want to do it. But that does not mean client is not happy. Its like Indian 498a law where a boy is always responsibile even if the wife wants divorce since she wanna marry someone else.

 

So would you say that its only because of the boy the marriage and girl is always innocent since she is a woman? Upwork is treating client as god and only wrongdoer is Freelancer. This is certainly not a fact.

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Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
BEST ANSWER
29 of 40

Vlad, long-term contracts do count positively towards your JS score. Just not as much as completed contracts and good public and private feedback. I am not saying that's a good thing...

 

Jennifer, and by the time one or two long-term clients close those contracts because they may not need a freelancer's services anymore, their JS scores have dropped so low that they either get suspended or their profiles don't come up in the already flawed searches anymore (or on page 25), or their applications go to the hidden folder automatically, or they don't receive invites at all because Upwork won't recommend them anymore etc. etc.

 

The JS score, as flawed as the calculations may be, seriously impacts a provider's ability to find new work. It is as simple as that. And a lot of people don't rely on long-term clients only.

I also would worry if my score was below 70% because I need to attract new clients and find new work on a regular basis.

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Vlad R Member Since: Jul 4, 2015
30 of 40

I agree with most of you have said, and I'd like to mention a few things.

Long-term work isn't the only work I do. While these contracts are ongoing, some have gaps of weeks where the client does not request anything of me. I need to fill that time with something, so I apply for other jobs. Ever since the Job Success system has been on my profile though, I have received considerably less interview opportunities even though I apply just as often to new jobs. So, this sucks big time. It seriously drags my employment chances down and it has NOTHING to do with my skill or response time. It just sucks.

Long-term employment does count towards my profile, but only ones that have been long term and then *ended*. However, ALL of my long-term contracts are still *ongoing*. They do not contribute at all to my score, and never will until the contracts end and they give feedback, or until the system is changed.

So, I should consider myself fortunate that I have long term work, but it doesn't pay for all my bills. So I need to find new work more or less constantly, and lately I simply can't that well anymore. In fact I've sent 30 applications in the past 14 days, and not a single one has produced an interview. Not ONE. That is not okay by a long shot.

Even if that long term work did pay all my bills, I still shouldn't be happy, because I don't like my work being rated lower due to a *faulty algorythm*. 

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