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Re: Job Success - question & answer

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Community Guru
Garnor M Member Since: Oct 29, 2014
11 of 56

Hi Setu,

As explained on my call with you, we are working on more information to provide insight into Job Success and how it's calculated. I'm hopeful we'll have some information to publish within the next week or so.

 

Keep in mind though, at the end of the day this metric relies heavily on the private ratings left by your clients. In order to maintain the integrity of this private rating process, we can't divulge the specific ratings you receive by each client. I expect this will continue to frustrate some of you but is necessary to best reflect performance. That said, what we are working on providing is more information on the time frames in which Job Success information is captured and how we display the score that puts your performance in the best light. These are just a couple of the areas we hope will alleviate some of your concerns.

 

Job Success is an important metric to track and we're glad there's increased focus on it. However, this measurement is ultimately based on success in completing your jobs and on delivering good experiences for your clients. Focus on this (doing great work for your clients) and this metric will move (or remain) in a great place.

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Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
12 of 56

In this case Upwork shoud really take measures to educate clients on the importance and impact of private feedback. 

So far I have yet to meet a client who even knows what a JS score is or what their private feedback actually means (from a freelancer's perspective).

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Community Guru
Natacha R Member Since: Aug 2, 2010
13 of 56

In this case Upwork shoud really take measures to educate clients on the importance and impact of private feedback. 

 

I think it will take more than educating clients, they need to make some changes to private feedback.

 

What happens with contracts that are ended but no work was performed?

When it comes to selecting on a scale of 1 to 10, how can those ending a contract be fair? Client does not know if he/she can recommend the freelancer, yet selecting anything below 9 will have a negative impact on JS. 

 

Upwork team, please add an option so clients can select no work was performed, do not force people to be unfair, at least this is how I see it. Please add an option to opt out from recommending the freelancer.

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Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
14 of 56

@Natasha R wrote:

 

Upwork team, please add an option so clients can select no work was performed, do not force people to be unfair, at least this is how I see it. Please add an option to opt out from recommending the freelancer.


 I would suggest that if a client or a freelancer chose the fictional "no work was performed" as the reason for closing a contract there shouldn't be an option to leave private feedback at all. After all there's a reason people can't leave public feedback when a contract wasn't executed. The same logic should be be applied to private feedback.

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Community Guru
Reynaldo M Member Since: Aug 4, 2012
15 of 56

Same question I posted before but never gotten a reply.

 

 Or work was done and contract ended but no feedback was given,  Private nor Public.  Or a great public feedback given but Private is negative?  Or a Freelancer with several contracts still open with some work done or work are complete and abandoned by clients?

 

In these instances, the Freelancer will be holding the shortend of the stick.

Community Leader
Julie T Member Since: Sep 29, 2011
16 of 56

Hi Garnor, 

 

A few questions...

 

  1. Is there any similar metric in the works for clients? In my 30+ years of work experience, I have found outcomes between  professionals and clients to be a function of what both parties bring to the table. 
  2. Does Upwork have any reliablity and validity studies regarding the job success score? If so, will this information be shared? Again, if so, when?
  3. Do clients receive the operational definitions of the metrics involved in determining job success? 
  4. What measures are put in place to prevent situations like I described in So let the game playing begin ? I dont need specific advice for my situation

Thank you in advance for the information. 

 

Best, 

 

Julie 

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Community Guru
Setu M Member Since: Jan 26, 2014
17 of 56

Thank you for the reply Garnor, I appreciate your input, and look forward to the info.

I was not sure what can or could be made public re our conversation, so I had rather that you made the statement.

On a different note, it is funny that some prominent freelancers in the community never seem to comment on any thread involving JS score. They avoid it like the plague.

 

**Edit** I strongly believe, that the "influential" members of the community can each work on getting a particular problem addressed, or at last try. We are afterall seeking the same goal, an improved and successful platform for all.

---- easy like Sunday morning ----
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Ace Contributor
Paul M Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
18 of 56

I'm gping to throw my twopennarth in here, as I've just given up after a 3 day email exchange with a very nice but ultimately unable-to-help CS person.

 

First, some background on me and oDesk/Upwrok. I'm still fairly new to UpWork, having completed 4 jobs and have 3 ongoing, albeit on a sporadic basis in terms of the work I do for those clients and have logged 40 hours total.

 

Anyway, I've received 5 stars on the jobs I've completed with positive comments on 3, and one which has 5 stars but no comment from the client.

 

My JS score is just 71% so I submitted a ticket asking why, when my feedback is good, my response times are faultless and there's never been a dispute or a refund required.

 

The answer I got initially was the stock answer that the JS score algorithm takes lots of things into account, including private feedback from clients that may not be so positive, as it is often the case that public feedback and private feedback are markedly different. After a couple of emails back and forth, I insisted on knowing if any clients have left negative private feedback for me, as UpWork could be basing a publicly available rating on information which may be incorrect or even libellous.

 

Eventually, I was told that all the private feedback and ratings I've received on all my jobs has been very positive so, again, I asked how this could equate to a 71% job score. Right away we were back to the stock answer of the algorithm being more complex than that etc.

 

Now, I don't expect a 100% rating based on 4 completed jobs and 3 ongoing, but I'd have expected a little more than 71%. I doubt a JS of 71% appears overly attractive to many clients, and is probably detrimental in  a lot of cases.

 

I believe my situation indicates that the algorithm is clearly flawed but, like everything oDesk/UpWork related, it's like trying to nail water to a wall getting someone to acknowledge it.

 

 

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Community Guru
Setu M Member Since: Jan 26, 2014
19 of 56
@ Natasha, @ Ela,

The "no work performed" option seems like a good idea. After-all it is fair that if no work was performed then no feedback can be given. So both of you are right on those points.

I will add another view (and this is my view not Upwork's). I believe one of the main concerns of Upwork is disintermediation, as it literally could make them go bankrupt. So many of the policies here are strictest to prevent this from occurring. Now I can easily see many clients and freelancers agreeing to select the "no work was performed" option and settle outside of the platform. Because now it would be easier to maneuver around the system.

I am not suggesting that the system not be overhauled because of potential problems like this, because things regarding the JS score need to change. But the reality is that they have to guard against unscrupulous freelancers and clients.

I will give an example. It is not until I came to this community that I realized many freelancers were manipulating star feedback (public feedback), by religiously refunding clients. I never even knew this could be done. It is because of these underhanded practices (among others) why we are in some of the problems now.
---- easy like Sunday morning ----
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Community Guru
Aleksandra K Member Since: Mar 31, 2015
20 of 56

What about non-paying clients?Why are they entitled to leave a feedback?

 

I am not talking about a client who wasn’t satisfied with my work! I am talking about a client who tried to scam me into getting my work for free. I am sure he wasn’t expecting me to contact CS and get him to pay me. So I got the money, the client (according to the feedback he has) scammed three to four people after me, but he is still on Upwork, posting jobs, hiring people.

 

If the situation was vice versa and the freelancer wasn’t able to deliver the work, the JS would have been 60% due to his poor private feedback and maybe the freelancer would have been faced with the possibility of suspension (if they don’t improve their JC) .

 

I still have 80% JS and he is the only one who could have lowered my JS so basically he got me twice (or at least he tried). I had to wait for my money and to suffer because of his private feedback. Maybe he was hoping I wouldn’t be so vocal or maybe he was hoping I would refund him the money which I don't plan on doing  – EVER Smiley Very Happy

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