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sourceprouk
Community Member

Job offering a pittance

I have just reported a job offering $3 per hour for long hours on a skilled job. Despite the fact that some people will say it is up to the freelancers to decide whether to take it, the isssue is that it devalues the work of Upwork freelancers. Other potential clients look for similar jobs to use as reference and may think that is the going rate. Allowing this kind of thing can put Upwork at the level of cheapo websites. I do not want people saying in social media that the freelancers of Upwork are cheapos. 

What kind of money can Upwork itself get for this anyhow?

Do we want Upwork to be brought down to the level of Fiverr?

26 REPLIES 26
petra_r
Community Member


Federico D wrote:

I have just reported a job offering $3 per hour for long hours on a skilled job.


Reported for what? There is no violation of the terms of service, so your spurious report just costs all of us money. Thank you very much.

 

Oh sorry, I will give you the link to the job so that you can maybe undercut the other bidders and work for $1 per hour Smiley Very Happy


Federico D wrote:

Oh sorry, I will give you the link to the job so that you can maybe undercut the other bidders and work for $1 per hour Smiley Very Happy


That makes no sense. Nobody here has suggested they are happy to make that kind of money themselves.

I wouldn't want to work for that kind of money either, so I would just not apply for it. That kind of money can be a lifeline for unskilled/poorly skilled people in certain parts of the world, however. If Upwork stopped allowing it, all it would do is to result in fewer jobs in the marketplace. 


Jamie F wrote:

Federico D wrote:

Oh sorry, I will give you the link to the job so that you can maybe undercut the other bidders and work for $1 per hour Smiley Very Happy


That makes no sense. Nobody here has suggested they are happy to make that kind of money themselves.

I wouldn't want to work for that kind of money either, so I would just not apply for it. That kind of money can be a lifeline for unskilled/poorly skilled people in certain parts of the world, however. If Upwork stopped allowing it, all it would do is to result in fewer jobs in the marketplace. 


You misunderstand, I am not criticising people who would starve otherwise earning $3 per hour in a vey poor country, doing work like picking rice. I am saying that it displays a bad image for Upwork freelancers making people think that such is an acceptable type of rate for skilled work. The job was about design and engineering.
Upwork should help us maintain an image of 'respectable' providers of services by helping us maintain a standard and making it clear that we are not cheapos who will work for a pittance.

It is worth noting again that indirect evidence suggests that the $3/hour minimum is no higher because certain Upwork Enterprise clients find that they can get satisfactory work at that rate, within specific niches. Upwork, which has recently indicated its intention to focus more on the corporate market, is not about to chase clients away.

As others have noted, you are not competing with those workers, and there is no reason to believe their business affects yours. I know there are people who bid at a third or less of my rates; the fact that we bid on the same jobs doesn't make them my competition—at least not for the kinds of work and clients I want.


Federico D wrote:

Oh sorry, I will give you the link to the job so that you can maybe undercut the other bidders and work for $1 per hour Smiley Very Happy


Thanks for the offer, but I work at $ 45 an hour.

I am not bothered by $ 3 an hour jobs because the clients who hire those freelancers would never hire me anyway, so why should I be irritated by them? I certainly would not waste support time (which we pay for!) reporting things that are not a violation of the terms of service.

 

I wish Upwork would start charging for support. Maybe 20 to 30 connects per ticket and 50 for chat would weed out those people who abuse the facility.

 

researchediting
Community Member


Federico D wrote:

 

....What kind of money can Upwork itself get for this anyhow?


In volume, considerable money. There are Enterprise clients who pay this low, and for some tasks won't pay more, and Upwork is happy to have them.

 

p.s. You win best unintended laugh of the day by proposing Petra might be interested in a dollar-an-hour contract.


Douglas Michael M wrote:

Federico D wrote:

 

....What kind of money can Upwork itself get for this anyhow?


In volume, considerable money. There are Enterprise clients who pay this low, and for some tasks won't pay more, and Upwork is happy to have them.

 

p.s. You win best unintended laugh of the day by proposing Petra might be interested in a dollar-an-hour contract.

 


Really? And is it worth it for Upwork that people can say in social media: "I got it dead cheap in Upwork, but the work was rubbish" for a commission of $10? x.....times.

Good unintended laugh you have just given me.

florydev
Community Member


Federico D wrote:

I have just reported a job offering $3 per hour for long hours on a skilled job. Despite the fact that some people will say it is up to the freelancers to decide whether to take it, the isssue is that it devalues the work of Upwork freelancers. Other potential clients look for similar jobs to use as reference and may think that is the going rate. Allowing this kind of thing can put Upwork at the level of cheapo websites. I do not want people saying in social media that the freelancers of Upwork are cheapos. 

What kind of money can Upwork itself get for this anyhow?

Do we want Upwork to be brought down to the level of Fiverr?


What if I think the same thing about what you do for the rate you choose to do it?  Am I right?  Who draws the line and where?

 

To my mind if a client is only willing to pay $3.00 an hour and for some reason someone is willing to do it for $3.00 an hour than more power to all of them.  It has nothing to do with me or my rate or what I am doing.  I don't see how someone who works for $3.00 an hour cheapens what I do any differently than the fact that you charge $27.00 an hour.  

 

My job is to convince pontential clients that the work I do has value.  It has nothing to do with with others are doing.  I think this notion of selling your skills for a certain rate is entirely flawed but people seem to want to compete with others in commodity selling of their skills and are shocked to find out that others value their skills cheaply.

 

I sell solutions that only I can provide.   It costs what I choose to charge for it.  Most people are not willing to engage me and I am totally cool with that, my job is to make sure the ones that do realize the value I provide.

I gave the example of Fiverr. I invite you to look in social media, like Quora, what many people say about it: "yes you get cheap work there but is likely to be rubbish" or: "I paid $5 for a Logo design and then I found out the designer got it from clipart".

 

I have had to re-do a number of jobs that had been done by cheapos badly, then clients go to social media saying how the work they got in Upwork was rubbish.

Do you really want this kind of reputation for Upwork and its providers or do you want it to have a reputation of a highly professional place were clients get quality? Do you want a place where clients are going to get people working for $3 because they do not know what they are doing?

I am talking about the skilled jobs. I do not know if Upwork offers services sticking stamps on envelopes. 


Federico D wrote:

I gave the example of Fiverr. I invite you to look in social media, like Quora, what many people say about it: "yes you get cheap work there but is likely to be rubbish" or: "I paid $5 for a Logo design and then I found out the designer got it from clipart".

 

I have had to re-do a number of jobs that had been done by cheapos badly, then clients go to social media saying how the work they got in Upwork was rubbish.

Do you really want this kind of reputation for Upwork and its providers or do you want it to have a reputation of a highly professional place were clients get quality? Do you want a place where clients are going to get people working for $3 because they do not know what they are doing?

I am talking about the skilled jobs. I do not know if Upwork offers services sticking stamps on envelopes. 


I think my real answer is I don't care about Upwork's reputation.  It was actually Upwork's reputation and one of it's predecessors that kept me from looking for work on here from the get-go when I started my own business.  In as far as Upwork's reputation effects the clients I am getting I will worry about that when I see it happening.  My reaction will be simply to rely on Upwork a lot less and currently my business is far too reliant on Upwork and that is something I definitely need to fix.

 

I actually find your concern different, not that clients are able to desire $3.00 an hour work or that someone is willing to do it but that clients are going to get poor quality work at that amount and will thus be upset?  What makes you think that a client who comes here thinking they can pay the cheapest amount possible will be shocked by their results?  Do you think those same people would even be willing to pay $30.00 an hour?

 

Most people are more concerned that a client wants and gets $3.00 an hour and is perfectly happy with it.  This is the most common argument that Upwork is a tremendous race to the bottom.  That is what I see on social media.

 

I actually think any market needs all kinds of different horses in the race and not all of them are good.  It is hard to differentiate yourself in a market of strict throughbreds.  You yourself have benefited from picking up clients that the "cheapos" did a bad job for and, assuming you did them a good turn, don't you think you benefit from the contrast?  Will those clients go out on the open market in the future or come straight to you?

 

If every car was as good as a Jaguar, why would anyone buy a Jaguar? (I actually don't know ***t about cars so maybe this is not a good example).

 

My problem overall with your post is I don't see an answer other than Upwork creating and enforcing some kind of rule and nothing I have seen has led me to believe that they would do a good job with this.  I would prefer they did their best to leave things alone unless there is a serious problem.


Federico D wrote:

I gave the example of Fiverr. I invite you to look in social media, like Quora, what many people say about it: "yes you get cheap work there but is likely to be rubbish" or: "I paid $5 for a Logo design and then I found out the designer got it from clipart".

 

I have had to re-do a number of jobs that had been done by cheapos badly, then clients go to social media saying how the work they got in Upwork was rubbish.

Do you really want this kind of reputation for Upwork and its providers or do you want it to have a reputation of a highly professional place were clients get quality? Do you want a place where clients are going to get people working for $3 because they do not know what they are doing?


This just in: People on the internet talk smack, and blame others for their stupid decisions.


Mark F wrote:


..... differently than the fact that you charge $27.00 an hour.  

 

 


Do you really need to go and investigate people who post here and then post what you want to use about them here? If I have wanted people here to kmnow my hourly rate, I would have said it myself.


Federico D wrote:

Mark F wrote:


..... differently than the fact that you charge $27.00 an hour.  

 

 


Do you really need to go and investigate people who post here and then post what you want to use about them here? If I have wanted people here to kmnow my hourly rate, I would have said it myself.


We can ALL see your profile. 

It doesn't take 'investigation'. It's just two clicks away.


Federico D wrote:

Mark F wrote:


..... differently than the fact that you charge $27.00 an hour.  

 

 


Do you really need to go and investigate people who post here and then post what you want to use about them here? If I have wanted people here to kmnow my hourly rate, I would have said it myself.


I think it made my point more pointed.  I couldn't imagine it would bother you and I don't have the vaguest reason why it would.  It's an arbitrary number you chose for what you think your value is, as is mine.  There is no great arbiter deciding what is a good or bad rate and I don't think there should be.  I certainly don't think it should be Upwork.


Federico D wrote:

 

 If I have wanted people here to kmnow my hourly rate, I would have said it myself.

You did, in your public profile!

 

I dont see how it differs that much from you posting about the rate a client is willing to pay, if they wanted a discussion on it they would have posted it here.

martina_plaschka
Community Member


Federico D wrote:

I have just reported a job offering $3 per hour for long hours on a skilled job. Despite the fact that some people will say it is up to the freelancers to decide whether to take it, the isssue is that it devalues the work of Upwork freelancers. Other potential clients look for similar jobs to use as reference and may think that is the going rate. Allowing this kind of thing can put Upwork at the level of cheapo websites. I do not want people saying in social media that the freelancers of Upwork are cheapos. 

What kind of money can Upwork itself get for this anyhow?

Do we want Upwork to be brought down to the level of Fiverr?


Upwork requires a minimum hourly rate of USD 3, so there is nothing to report here. 

People who report jobs which violate no rules damage the platform.

 

Don't divert resources like that.

 

If I owned a steak house in your neighborhood, would you like me to call 911 every time a vegan came to my restaurant and only ordered a salad?

 

Maybe I don't like vegans and maybe you don't like clients or jobs or freelancers who are not at your level on the economic scale. But "not liking something" doesn't give you the right to report it.

And for the record, there are thousands of freelancers working for $3/hour who are the envy of their entire neighborhood, because their earnings are so much higher than what anybody around them earns in their local economy.

 

 

"

People who report jobs which violate no rules damage the platform.

 

Don't divert resources like that.

 

If I owned a steak house in your neighborhood, would you like me to call 911 every time a vegan came to my restaurant and only ordered a salad?

 

Maybe I don't like vegans and maybe you don't like clients or jobs or freelancers who are not at your level on the economic scale. But "not liking something" doesn't give you the right to report it."

--------------------

Very well stated, and without the unnecessary sarcasm I detect in the responses of other people.


Preston H wrote:

 

 

Don't divert resources like that.

 

If I owned a steak house in your neighborhood, would you like me to call 911 every time a vegan came to my restaurant and only ordered a salad?

 

 


You do not tell me if I can complain or not. I am a client here and you do not own the joint. 
Some nonsensical analogy, about a vegan, you make here.

I have just come across this job already done by somebody. Surely you will think this is up to Upwork's standards

765 hrs  at $0.67/hr
Billed: $435.90
It is form a few years back but, even if it was from 1960, it still would be inappropriate for Upwork.


Martina P wrote:


Upwork requires a minimum hourly rate of USD 3, so there is nothing to report here. 


That does not prevent me from complaining that I do not believe this is right for highly skilled jobs. Maybe that pay could be OK for jobs spamming the Net.

re: "That does not prevent me from complaining that I do not believe this is right."

 

You are right.

 

It is fine to complain about this and other things that you disagree with. The Community Forum is the right place to do so.

 

There are MANY people who would like to see Upwork maintain a minimum allowable rate that is higher than $3.00/hour. There are also many people who would prefer to see a lower allowable rate.

 

I think most everybody here is fine with you discussing the issue.

 

I am especially fine with you complaining about or discussing the issue if you remain open to other people's perspectives.

 

(The thing that is not okay is flagging jobs that don't violate Upwork rules.)

 

For the record, there are many types of job postings that I don't like and which violate my personal beliefs, but I don't report them because the basis for reporting job posting is ToS, and not what I believe is right.

versailles
Community Member


Federico D wrote:

I have just reported a job offering $3 per hour for long hours on a skilled job.


What did you report it for? People who handle reports enforce Upwork's Terms of Service and $3 per hour is the minimum on Upwork.

You're just wasting their time and yours. You'll feel way better the day you will stop paying attention to things like this. There are people who pay very low rates and people who work for these low rates. There is nothing that can be done to prevent this. Upwork could put the minimum at $30/hour, clients and providers would still find ways to agree on $3/hour contracts behind the curtains.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
emily_reactant
Community Member

On Upwork, just like in meatspace life, there are going to be clients who are chancers. fNo one said you have to work for that little, and while I often earn and the lower end of the pay scale for non-freelancer-platform work in my niche, I still do pretty well per hour and per 1,000 words.

 

Where Upwork benefits me is that I get way more work through Upwork than I would just cold calling and emailing businesses. It's also a chance to build up a portfolio of feedback from previous clients that anyone on or off Upwork can see. Unless you're premium, potential clients looking at your profile will also be able to see if you are taking jobs that pay $10/1,000 words or indeed $3/hour, so those of you taking these low-paid roles are really shooting yourself in the foot in the long term, as well as right now.

 

It's more about Upwork providing  a platform for you to demonstrate your reputation than a situation where the platdorm's reputation matters a huge amount. I might change my tune if the higher quality, higher paid roles dried up, but that's certainly not the case at the moment.

 

As plenty of ther people have mentioned, clients who massively underpay tend to get what they pay for, ending up with poor quality work. Do you really care if people on social media think this or that, so long as you are making a living?

 

re: "I have just come across this job already done by somebody.... is [this] up to Upwork's standards [?]
765 hrs  at $0.67/hr
Billed: $435.90

It is from a few years back..."

 

Upwork previously did not have a minimum hourly rate. It was certainly possible for a client to hire freelancers at rates that produced an hourly average of $0.67/hour.

 

A few years ago Upwork instituted a $3.00 minimum hourly rate.

So you are correct: What you are seeing is indeed from a few years back.

 

It is not necessary to look for and highlight client statistics from a few years back - statistics which were the result of past policies.

 

Upwork had different rules a few years ago. Upwork's rules a few years from now will be different than they are today.

 

If there are current policies that you disagree with, then you are welcome to discuss them here in the Forum. For example, you could criticize (or "complain about") the current minimum hourly rate. Perhaps you think it is too low. Perhaps you think it is too high. Perhaps you think that the minimum hourly rate should be different in different countries, or varied based on non-geographic factors such as educational attainment, certification, job niche, age, etc.

 

I don't have any objection to people discussing Upwork's policies in the Forum.

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