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dannykundzinsh
Community Member

Job success score is UNFAIR and should be changed.

The job Success score is not an accurate reflection of the freelancers job success, there are projects which were completed successfuly but I haven't got reviews on but still count against my score, the score makes it seem like I am a bad freelancer that isn't completing the projects properly while I completed every project successfully with complete client satisfaction and the score has nothing to do with my performance on the jobs I've worked on.
Is it my fault some clients don't leave feedback? is it my fault that a client doesn't pay? is it my fault that a project lasts for several months beyond the original intended time?
I pay a monthly subscription and I do not feel I am getting my worth as the system is working against me and not for me.
The way the score should work is IF and only IF there are specific complaints against a freelancer and after a management review it's justified then the score can drop, but not because of reasons outside of the freelancers control as I mentioned above.
I completed all my projects with success but my score is 84% when it should be 100%.
Please advise.

73 REPLIES 73
imsaqibriaz
Community Member

I agree with you. I also completed projects but my client was unresponsive i tried to contact him to close the contract but i think he left the upwork and i did not get a review. 

It is very hard for new freelancers like me because one bad project can affect too much.

Not fair !!!!

If you look just down the screen you will see a thread labeled JSS that literally is 125 pages long at the time of this writing. A separate thread here isn't needed. You can spend the day plus with that thread getting every detail about JSS and then you can add your voice to page 125 or 126 if you want. 

Scott B I want to be heard, and as it seems many others too for quite some time since there are 125 pages, which to me is concerning. something should have been done by now.

You should be heard.  And keep vocalizing until something is done.  I've been very active in that thread and Upwork made it clear they have NO plans for any major changes to JSS.  So looks like they need more feedback to realize how much change is necessary.

The system as it is now is working completely against the freelancers who
are the bread and butter of this website, the way it calculates the score
needs to be redone completely, the only way a score will drop is because of
multiple complaints have been made against a freelancer and ONLY after an
account review of those complaints by the admins the score should drop and
also not by very much, a freelancer should also have the right to require
for a second review and explain why bad score was given, there are some
very hard and unforgiving clients out there who believe the world is theirs
because they pay you a few dollars, those cases need to be considered and
freelancers need to be heard, having said that, there are also bad
freelancers who abuse the system, so considerations need to be made, for
such a large website a bot is no longer sufficient, you need an actual team
to work on these issues upwork.
If the job success score stays the way it is I will cancel my subscription
altogether and stop using upwork and recommend others to do the same for
these reason as it is working against the freelancers who pay to use this
platform, not to mention the project fees are already too high, but combine
that with an unfair rating system and you will have yourself a lot of
freelancers who will quit using upwork altogether.

 I agree! 2 projects I had the clients just stopped answering, I tried contacting them but I think they left upwork. It's so unfair because as freelancers we depend on this score and two clients can afect tremendously our job score. Super unfair UPWORK

petra_r
Community Member


@Danny K wrote:

The job Success score is not an accurate reflection of the freelancers job success, there are projects which were completed successfuly but I haven't got reviews on but still count against my score, the score makes it seem like I am a bad freelancer that isn't completing the projects properly while I completed every project successfully with complete client satisfaction and the score has nothing to do with my performance on the jobs I've worked on.
Is it my fault some clients don't leave feedback? is it my fault that a client doesn't pay? is it my fault that a project lasts for several months beyond the original intended time?


 Do you have any contracts which fall into one of the following categories:

  • A contract closed without anything ever having been paid
  • A contract that has been open for months (multiple) without anything having been paid (yet)
  • A fully refunded contract?

The length a contract takes does not hurt your JSS (as long as something is paid)

No feedback contracts do not hurt your JSS provided  some money was at some point paid.

A contract lasting longer than intended does not hurt your JSS provided  some money was at some point paid.

Is it your fault if a client does not pay? Sort of, because if you use the system correctly you get paid automatically.

 

Petra R, these are the exact reasons why the rating system is completely broken and makes zero sense, I've worked on a project that was funded but lasted for months without payment, it's just how it happened because it took the company a very long time to decide upon designs and there was NOTHING I could do about it, so money wasn't paid, project lasted over 3 months and my score got affected because of it, this is an indication of a broken system, this is working against myself who is trying to establish himself on this platform.

The clients don't know about the rules and reasons behind the JSS, they only see less than 100% and immidately assume the freelancer  is untrustowrthy, this is a serious issue and should be dealt with all seriousness.
Or at least have the option of being able to hide this score, at least for those who pay a premium.
Leave the project reveiws I don't mind that, but the JSS is a stumbling block instead of being an accurate reflection of a freelancer's worth.


@Danny K wrote:

Petra R, these are the exact reasons why the rating system is completely broken and makes zero sense, I've worked on a project that was funded but lasted for months without payment, it's just how it happened because it took the company a very long time to decide upon designs and there was NOTHING I could do about it, so money wasn't paid, project lasted over 3 months and my score got affected because of it, this is an indication of a broken system, this is working against myself who is trying to establish himself on this platform.


 So the second you get a single Dollar under the contract the effect will be reversed, problem solved (its negative impact will reverse) - Or was the contract ended without anything ever being paid?

 

Split contracts into smaller milestones so it doesn't go for months without anything being paid.

Here's what I know, I've completed my projects successfully, but my score is 84%, the system is broken, and is working against the freelancer.
JSS shouldn't be counting so many different factors that are outside of the freelancers control against the freelancer.
I wouldn't care so much if at least I could hide the JSS, but I can't and I know for a fact I am losing projects over this issue as my job offers deminishing significantly since I went beneath 90%, which means my livelyhood is hurt while I am a top performing freelancer and all my clients are satisfied, this cannot be, do you see how this system at it's current state does not work and the JSS is broken? it may make sense on paper, but in reality this is what's happening.
As of now, there are two ways of rating a freelancer, the star reviews are fine, I can live with those, but then you also have the JSS which significantly affects jobs and income.


@Danny K wrote:

Here's what I know, I've completed my projects successfully, but my score is 84%, the system is broken, and is working against the freelancer.


 Did one of your contracts end without any payment (ever) or is still open without anything ever having been paid? If so, which one?

"The clients don't know about the rules and reasons behind the JSS, they only see less than 100% and immidately assume the freelancer  is untrustowrthy, this is a serious issue and should be dealt with all seriousness.
Or at least have the option of being able to hide this score, at least for those who pay a premium.
Leave the project reveiws I don't mind that, but the JSS is a stumbling block instead of being an accurate reflection of a freelancer's worth."

 

I have been trying to make the same points.  Make your voice heard and encourage others who feel the same to do the same.

One of my projects the client requested a refund because he wanted to start with me another contract. Istead of giving him 8 patterns he just needed 6, so I refunded him, and he opeened another contrat.

 

This reflects badly on my score and it's super unfair....


Ana A wrote:

One of my projects the client requested a refund because he wanted to start with me another contract. Istead of giving him 8 patterns he just needed 6, so I refunded him, and he opeened another contrat.

 

This reflects badly on my score and it's super unfair....


You didn't need to fully refund the original contract and start a new one; why didn't you just supply him with the six patterns and refund him for two?


Ana A wrote:

One of my projects the client requested a refund because he wanted to start with me another contract. Istead of giving him 8 patterns he just needed 6, so I refunded him, and he opeened another contrat.

 

This reflects badly on my score and it's super unfair....


But you don't have a score?

And the client could just have paid you for 6 patterns. There was no need to request a refund and create a new contract at all.  And a contract that ends without payment but good private feedback is neutral. It does not affect your JSS.

 


Ana A wrote:

 I agree! 2 projects I had the clients just stopped answering, I tried contacting them but I think they left upwork. It's so unfair because as freelancers we depend on this score and two clients can afect tremendously our job score. Super unfair UPWORKuper unfair....


What are you talking about? Contracts with payment don't hurt your JSS even if the client "stops answering"

"No feedback" contracts only affect you if you have an insane number of them.

 

tlbp
Community Member


Ana A wrote:

One of my projects the client requested a refund because he wanted to start with me another contract. Istead of giving him 8 patterns he just needed 6, so I refunded him, and he opeened another contrat.

 

This reflects badly on my score and it's super unfair....


You've presented no proof that your current situation has negatively affected your JSS. Spend some time reading the facts about JSS calculations and learning how to manage your contracts so that you don't have to worry about your JSS. Learn the rules, follow the rules, and do good work.  

tlbp
Community Member




I completed all my projects with success but my score is 84% when it should be 100%.
Please advise.

 Prove it. 

apilsl
Community Member

Lol very unhelpful

dzadza
Community Member

what's the number next to   "clients who would recommend you" on your stats screen?

Petra no, I never had any projects without payment who were closed.
My score should be 100% unless I was continously providing bad service to my clients. 3 strikes and your out would be a more acceptable reason to lower ones score and ONLY if the customer complained and there was a VERY good reason for the strikes to happen in the first place.

It's like upwork is shooting itself in the foot, you are punishing freelancers for the clients mistakes. the JSS is not even necessery, I would vote to get rid of that thing altogether, it serves no purpose other than hurt the livelyhoods of those who are trying to make it on this platform.
Not offering live chat for those of us who pay premium is also completely unacceptable, I am quite shocked that upwork is making millions from it's freelancers but doesn't even have a team to review and provide an ACCURATE score on the freelancer's JSS, **edited for Community Guidelines**
So please upwork, stop slaping the ones who keep you going and are allowing you to make those expensive youtube commercial videos. yes I've seen them, with the rock's presidential campaign and on and on, those are expensive ads.
It's fair to say I am extremely disapointed by how this is handled and am shocked that there are over 125 pages of people who already complained and commented about this issue but yet without a resolve, heck as far as I can tell not even a nudge! all I get from customer support is, that's how it is and there's nothing we can do about it, really? then why am I paying a premium? to get kicked in the butt?
IF the plan is to drive freelancers away, it's working, otherwise, drop the JSS, it serves no purpose, star ratings are more than enough, and if there are problematic freelancers or clients their star rating will show and should be flagged in extreme cases.
If you do decide to stick with the JSS and not get rid of it, considering doing a major make over to that thing.

If you are at 100% and you get critical feedback, the score should be lowered, asking it to stay 100% seems unrealistic, but it should be a much different scoring system than it currently is, that's for sure...  I"m with you in asking for a more fair transparent system that doesn't penalize freelancers for client behavior, among other things...

yitwail
Community Member

Danny,

 

I don't want to belabor the issue, but in your https://www.upwork.com/my-stats/ page, what does it display for "Clients who would recommend you"?

 

If it's over 90%, then you might have a legitimate grievance.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
dzadza
Community Member

@John
well...yes...and no.

My client recommendation is 91% (it was 92% when I moved from Elance). My JSS went from 100 to 87, and stayed 87 for almost six months - now it's fantastic 88...meh.
So - it probably does count, but no one in upwork knows how big part in that calculation recommendation plays..
I'd suggest to get rid of the stars thing altogether and leave only private feedback - that way clients won't be pressured by unprofessional freelancers begging for 5 stars,  and  they will stop  posting  different public and private  feedback 

Here's the deal, the way JSS is currently calculating score is simply encouraging more freelancers to work outside of upwork hence reducing revenue for the site, why would a freelancer risk getting their score messed up if they can take the work some where else?
There are plenty of non destructive ways to provide feedback for freelancers, it should be constructive, I understand the purpose behind the JSS, but it simply isn't working in it's current state.
If there's a feedback that needs to be said it should be said in the open not in the secret, and lowering the freelancers supposedly quality of performance in secret. I honestly hate this JSS, I always strive to provide 110% for all of my clients, some times things don't always work out, but it's not a reason to kill a freelancers profile which JSS does, I've read from others that they can't get work, not nearly as much as before.
I have ZERO negative feedback on my account and all jobs completed successfully, but I am still at 84%.
Something isn't working here.
Just to mention that I have 100% client recommendation on my profile.


@Danny K wrote:

Here's the deal, the way JSS is currently calculating score is simply encouraging more freelancers to work outside of upwork hence reducing revenue for the site, 


 Is Upwork losing quality freelancers? And, are they losing so many freelancers that clients can't find someone to fit their need? Doubt it. What will increase revenue is more paying clients paying more per gig. Upwork could probably lose half it's freelancers and still have plenty to serve its client base. 

bfry1981
Community Member

"Upwork could probably lose half it's freelancers and still have plenty to serve its client base. " What a dubious assertion.  The point I've been making is that a lot of the disgruntled freelancers I have been discussing this with are experienced freelancers with a long history of very positive results on Upwork who are upset about getting screwed over technicalities beyond their control that don't involve negative feedback  or having just one or two lower reviews cause a major drop in their JSS.  Anyone who sees a big drop in their JSS but did not get negative feedback over a series of recent contracts can and should be outraged.

lysis10
Community Member

I just YOLO'd and closed 3 contracts in a row. Come at me, JSS. Come at me bro.

 

The point I've been making is that a lot of the disgruntled freelancers I have been discussing this with are experienced freelancers

 

is this like the 64% of freelancers that are making lower than $75k type of freelancers? those freelancers get around I tell you what.

bfry1981
Community Member

My clients who would recommend me is HIGHER than my JSS!

yitwail
Community Member


@brian F wrote:

My clients who would recommend me is HIGHER than my JSS!


Whereas the opposite is true for me. Therefore, as I've said before, JSS is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. It is what it is. But seriously, for Danny's sake, I hope someone with greater insight into JSS will rationalize his JSS in light of his 100% client recommedation metric.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
tlbp
Community Member


@John K wrote:

@brian F wrote:

My clients who would recommend me is HIGHER than my JSS!


Whereas the opposite is true for me. Therefore, as I've said before, JSS is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. It is what it is. But seriously, for Danny's sake, I hope someone with greater insight into JSS will rationalize his JSS in light of his 100% client recommedation metric.


 I *think* clients who would recommend is lifetime whereas JSS caps at 24-months. So if your most recent performance is worse than your overall performance, you'll still feel the JSS hit. Could be wrong though. Maybe canceled contracts/no feedback contracts aren't factored into the would recommend percentage? 

petra_r
Community Member


@Tonya P wrote:


 I *think* clients who would recommend is lifetime whereas JSS caps at 24-months. So if your most recent performance is worse than your overall performance, you'll still feel the JSS hit. Could be wrong though. Maybe canceled contracts/no feedback contracts aren't factored into the would recommend percentage? 


 Correct, the only thing that factors into the "would recommend percentage" is actual private feedback left, over the lifetime of a profile.

 

If someone has 100% "would recommend percentage" and a tanked JSS it almost certainly means a contract that has been open for months without anything ever having been paid, or a contract that was cancelled, closed without anything ever having been paid (which he says was not the case) or fully refunded.

 

bfry1981
Community Member

Petra, that honestly doesn't strike you as a poor system that this is even a possibility??

bfry1981
Community Member

There must be something wrong with me for thinking a transparent rating system would be better...


@brian F wrote:

There must be something wrong with me for thinking a transparent rating system would be better...


It's not wrong or right, but a transparent system would be easy to game. I would love a transparent JSS, but then I guess everybody would have near 100% JSS. 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   â€”William Ashbless


@Rene K wrote:

@brian F wrote:

There must be something wrong with me for thinking a transparent rating system would be better...


It's not wrong or right, but a transparent system would be easy to game. I would love a transparent JSS, but then I guess everybody would have near 100% JSS. 


To play devil's advocate, when we say "easy to game", what exactly are we thinking we could do that would boost our score but for nefarious and not legitimate reasons? I think there are only so many things that can go into this score such as public/private reviews, account holds, disputes, complaints, etc. If we know these things and we take steps to improve the one's we can and eliminate the rest, that cannot be considered bad for anyone. Of course we shouldn't need JSS to tell us these obvious things but the bulk of JSS has to be these obvious things, correct? I struggle to come up with something that if I knew it meant something, I can use to my advantage but to the disadvantage of the site, others freelancers or clients. 

 

My opinion is that the bulk of lower JSS scores comes from private feedback. Freelancers see great public scores or comments and cannot believe they don't have a perfect JSS. The client decides either because they are afraid of reprisal, conflict, etc., to be nice publicly but once the freelancer is "out of the room", they indicate what they really feel. Kinda like a lot of people in real life. The result is great outward stats but a low score that seems "unfair". It may be unfair but that is more on the client in deciding to tell two tales. The other reason that catches people off-guard for a lower JSS are scores that roll off after a period of time. Some good contracts move off the books and perhaps some less good contracts (i.e. bad public or private feedback) now carries greater weight. Again not obvious and people react. 

 

I don't think we are missing some super secret algo here. Sure there are pieces we don't know (or cannot prove) but the bulk of it I think is obvious. For those I say yes, please game the system. Game it by providing better service to clients or flat out avoiding those clients who aren't good for this platform to begin with.

I appreciate the thougtful response Scott.  Part of the problem, at least for a writer as I am, is that Upwork does not provide many quality writing gigs/assignments.  There are A LOT of iffy requests/contracts/clients, but if  did not take a lot of these, I'd have almost no business.

 

So yeah, Ideally I'd avoid these difficult people/clients.  But the lack of options and lac of quality writing gigs makes this impossible.  Every time you guys say "Why don't you as a freelancer do X, Y, or Z," maybe consider that you're speaking more in ideal terms and not in the reality of the Upwork marketplace.

petra_r
Community Member


@brian F wrote:

So yeah, Ideally I'd avoid these difficult people/clients.  But the lack of options and lac of quality writing gigs makes this impossible.  Every time you guys say "Why don't you as a freelancer do X, Y, or Z," maybe consider that you're speaking more in ideal terms and not in the reality of the Upwork marketplace.


 If it was impossible,  nobody could do it. The fact that so many writers in your market sector ($ 60 an hour upwards) do  manage to do it, the vast majority of whom with a 90% + JSS, would indicate that it's not "impossible."

 

When people say "Why don't you as a freelancer try X, Y, or Z" and you don't even try, you will never know whether it would have worked if you had given it a shot.

 

I still think your profile (both overview and picture) is your biggest stumbling block, not your JSS, which sucks right now but I've seen people bounce back to 100% from lower than that (although that latest poor feedback won't help and likely drive your JSS down even lower.)

 

I just went to Brian's profile and spotted this: Ignore JSS, which is misleading and can include non-ratings/open contracts. 

 

Which essentially translates into: If you haven't noticed my JSS, or if you don't judge a profile only from a JSS perspective, please think again and look carefully at it and see how **bleep**ty it is. But you must understand, it's not my fault, it's somebody else's fault!

 

Other than making vent holes, I don't understand why people feel a need to shoot themselves in the foot.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   â€”William Ashbless
tlbp
Community Member


 

I still think your profile (both overview and picture) is your biggest stumbling block, not your JSS, which sucks right now but I've seen people bounce back to 100% from lower than that (although that latest poor feedback won't help and likely drive your JSS down even lower.)

 


 Oh dear. That is unfortunate. I would try to come up with a very brief, very professionally worded statement explaining why the client may have decided to torpedo me on the review for that one. It appears that they weren't unhappy for quite some time since they kept paying. 

 

Sometimes getting a no review contract is better than the alternative.  Closing the contract before the client can and without asking for feedback is a somewhat grey-hat strategy to avoid these types of reviews. 

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