@Prashant P wrote:
Ok i will stay with your 'stuff' and vending machine type service example. Let us pause and change the scenerio a bit. Let us say that you got your stuff the provider did everything that could with the deliver deadline, no chipped pieces etc.
But then you turn around and threaten the seller with negative feedback to 'extract' refund or something else?
On Upwork I have seen posts after posts that matches the situation. Last night I read a post by Luda in which the buyer wants to end the contract and refund the escrow money and pay her ONE CENT.
That's exactly my point, Prashant. That's a risk inherent in a rating system. If you don't think it happens to businesses, think again. It's simply part of the package when you run a business. And, as a freelancer, you are running a business. If you aren't prepared to manage that type of event, you aren't in a position to run a business. Maybe that sounds harsh, but it really is that simple. If you need a giant safety net of laws and rules and higher-ups stepping in to protect you, then you should be an employee. When you choose to go out on your own, you choose to trade those protections for whatever benefits drew you to independent contracting.
I am sure no matter what she does she will take a hit. The private feedback creature Upwork has created allows all kind of abuses. In your example of Amazon - there is only one feedback that is visible to both buyers and sellers.
Actually, public feedback is much more susceptible to abuse. A client can't blackmail or bargain with private feedback, since the freelancer will never have any way of knowing whether he did what he said he was going to do. It's those damned, useless star ratings and comments that are the focus of the vast majority of feedback manipulation from both sides (which is a large part of the reason they became completely useless and necessitated private feedback)
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Now let us have round 2 of wrestling. I am too lazy to find out the question you posed to Stefan about ethicality of charging whatever price for something you got it for free.
First of all in software world there is nothing Out-of-box solution (like MS Office or Photoshop). But still to continue along your line of thinking.
Let us say by training you are a geologist and love hiking. You have explored every inch of Rocky Mountain and studied the formation, evaluated every terrain, dug holes and studied what is underneath of those big rocks.
The suddenly once day you found a location that has big diamonds. You don't have to do anything. Diamonds are flawless and cut with perfection precision (Now for a moment assume that it is legal to get stuff from federal land).
A buyer comes along and wants a 10K blue diamond. Would you just give it away or charge market price?
Remember you found that diamond mine becasue of your love for hiking and your training as a geologist.
I'm not arguing this one here for two reasons: it's way off point in an important thread, and I already responded to this issue on the appropriate thread, a couple of days ago. If in fact the person is one of a handful in the world with the knowledge to do the job, that's an entirely different issue from "one of the 1.5 million or so who could easily help you with this."
More on point to this thread, I will say that I am consistently troubled by your persistent declaration that freelancers are at the mercy of, hostage to, etc. client feedback--that's one of the reasons I keep engaging in what you see as wrestling (something I don't enjoy, by the way--I try to reserve it for when I think public statements are harming someone)
I think it is horribly irresponsible of you, as a seasoned professional, to ratify the idea of new freelancers with little or no professional experience that caving in to unreasonable client demands is normal, a function of the system, and their only option.
It is not possible to build a successful business without the courage of one's convictions. It may be fine for you, as a retired person who has stated that you don't need the income, to cop out to "oh, clients have all the power," but by stating and restating that to younger people just starting out in business, you are doing serious harm--perhaps irreparable harm--by helping to convince them that they are powerless, not in contro of their own businesses, forced to comply with client demands or face insurmountable consequences, etc.
I argue this point every time you (and others) make it, and will continue to do so, because I want to see people succeed and grow thriving businesses, not cower in the corner, scraping by and feeling like victims.
