Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

Maternity Leave and Top Rated PLUS Status

sitehive
Active Member
Svitlana G Member Since: Feb 18, 2019
11 of 33

Hi Petra, the point you made seems indeed moot, as here are the requirements for Top rated plus badge:

https://www.upwork.com/ab/profiles/vetted/find-the-right-talent

  • Large or long-term contracts (over $5K)
  • $10K+ earned in the last 12 months

10k+ earnings concerns the earnings, not the large scale contract, which is a separate requirement.

tlbp
Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
12 of 33

What information would people have to submit to Upwork to prove that a leave is actually for maternity? Would they have to submit regular medical updates? The child's birth certificate? How much time could people claim? The entire pregnancy? One year after the child is born? Until they enter school? Is it fair to those who want to take a year or two off for a mental health break? To pursue a full-time job? Because of some other illness? What about men? Shouldn't they get paternity allowances? Shouldn't they also have the right to prepare for the baby without losing their badges? How much time for adoptive parents? 
Should Upwork do away with time limits altogether and just indefinitely label people as top performers? Should they do away with the label as without a time limit, the label would be deceptive? 

sitehive
Active Member
Svitlana G Member Since: Feb 18, 2019
13 of 33

Hi Tonya Smiley Happy 

 

Let me answer with a question. Do you think listing many questions / concerns brings up information that was in the dark for everyone else? Would you say this is what’s called whataboutism? Did you have a chance to see Upwork’s update announcement re the TOS change that made everyone have calls through Upwork until there was a contract (summer 2020)? Did you notice a billion questions and concerns that were quite solid at many times and well-voiced? Did those questions change something or maybe simply raising questions does not yet prove anything? If we were thinking towards a solution instead, or at least consider that direction, would that help us get things done, like Upwork did, and later introduced the zoom integration? 

 

I’d say that the paternity issue and the question on the need / form of proving maternity seem solid for a discussion, but judging from the overall format of your post I’m not sure you intended to have one.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
14 of 33

Yet another attempt by an individual to change the platform according to their own, very specific circumstances...

 

Most people who freelance keep freelancing (to some degree) during their maternity leave. The only ones who do not are those who get paid maternity leave through their government and aren't allowed to earn money or they lose some or all of that "free" money.

 

Bottom line: The criteria for the badges are what they are. They are what they are for everyone, which makes them fair.

If they were changed for a subset of freelancers, that would be  terribly unfair to the others.

 

Once you start making exceptions it simply escalates until finally everyone has a top rated plus badge and they become copletely meaningless.

 

sitehive
Active Member
Svitlana G Member Since: Feb 18, 2019
15 of 33

Petra R wrote:

Yet another attempt by an individual to change the platform according to their own, very specific circumstances...

 

Most people who freelance keep freelancing (to some degree) during their maternity leave. The only ones who do not are those who get paid maternity leave through their government and aren't allowed to earn money or they lose some or all of that "free" money.

 

Bottom line: The criteria for the badges are what they are. They are what they are for everyone, which makes them fair.

If they were changed for a subset of freelancers, that would be  terribly unfair to the others.

 

Once you start making exceptions it simply escalates until finally everyone has a top rated plus badge and they become copletely meaningless.

 



Wow, the comments’ energy seems to have gotten less energetic and a bit more grim. I'll post this to both of you guys, just so you get a notification. I do appreciate you doing your part as active “contributors” of the forum and stopping by, this creates some movement to the topics content and makes me express my thoughts. Although, with the most irrelevant comment getting the most kudos, some trivial one-liners etc.,it seems like the effort was initially more targeted to keep up the forum “guru” stats. Not like it’s a huge problem.

 

I have support from my government, it’s conditioned only on the taxes that I paid before. As a legally registered ‘individual enterpreneur’, I am fully free to work as much as I want on maternity leave. I’m also not given any tax exemption, so I have to pay fixed social benefit tax even if I don’t work at all, as well as a floating earnings-based tax. 

 

Perhaps there’s a preconditioned view on the suggestion for changes, and it makes you think about “exceptions”, finances, special treatment (none other than of the super-duper rank Smiley LOL, because, of course, maternity is THAT unique hahah) So I have to honestly say: I do not feel problematic about working on maternity leave to some extent / loss of income / social benefits / risks to my career etc. 

 

Because that’s taken care of. 

 

The issue I have is being punished for being unavailable for full-time work, although it is clear, well-based and long-term. Especially if that punishment is losing a digital badge of excellence, invented & controlled by the platform. The real bottom line is, you see, in reality, I will be as qualified for it in a year, as I am now - specifically in terms of working long-term with clients and building great relationships with them. And although I’m not entitled to this abstract badge, it is not something so organic and large-scale, that changing it is like bending reality or equality.



P.S. I actually already received the award.

 

Best, Svitlana

tlbp
Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
16 of 33

Svitlana G wrote:

Hi Tonya Smiley Happy 

 

Let me answer with a question. Do you think listing many questions / concerns brings up information that was in the dark for everyone else? Would you say this is what’s called whataboutism? Did you have a chance to see Upwork’s update announcement re the TOS change that made everyone have calls through Upwork until there was a contract (summer 2020)? Did you notice a billion questions and concerns that were quite solid at many times and well-voiced? Did those questions change something or maybe simply raising questions does not yet prove anything? If we were thinking towards a solution instead, or at least consider that direction, would that help us get things done, like Upwork did, and later introduced the zoom integration? 

 

I’d say that the paternity issue and the question on the need / form of proving maternity seem solid for a discussion, but judging from the overall format of your post I’m not sure you intended to have one.




The reason you want to take a year off from running your business should not entitle you to a special dispensation. 

You're not suffering a discriminatory action because everyone has the same choice to work as an independent business owner and earn a certain amount annually. If they do, they qualify. What you are asking is to be treated as super-duper special and you are using your gender to make that claim. That's not fair to anyone else and seems very narrowly defined to benefit you. TR+ isn't even a universal award. It has very specific non-gender biased criteria. 

If Petra is correct, it is a great thing that women who chose or cannot work while pregnant have a source of financial support from their government. But you are basically asking to receive a performance award from a private entity during a time when you have chosen not to perform. 

sitehive
Active Member
Svitlana G Member Since: Feb 18, 2019
17 of 33

Tonya P wrote:

The reason you want to take a year off from running your business should not entitle you to a special dispensation. 

You're not suffering a discriminatory action because everyone has the same choice to work as an independent business owner and earn a certain amount annually. If they do, they qualify. What you are asking is to be treated as super-duper special and you are using your gender to make that claim. That's not fair to anyone else and seems very narrowly defined to benefit you. TR+ isn't even a universal award. It has very specific non-gender biased criteria. 

If Petra is correct, it is a great thing that women who chose or cannot work while pregnant have a source of financial support from their government. But you are basically asking to receive a performance award from a private entity during a time when you have chosen not to perform. 

Wow, the comments’ energy seems to have gotten less energetic and a bit more grim. I'll post this to both of you guys, just so you get a notification. I do appreciate you doing your part as active “contributors” of the forum and stopping by, this creates some movement to the topics content and makes me express my thoughts. Although, with the most irrelevant comment getting the most kudos, some trivial one-liners etc.,it seems like the effort was initially more targeted to keep up the forum “guru” stats. Not like it’s a huge problem.

 

I have support from my government, it’s conditioned only on the taxes that I paid before. As a legally registered ‘individual enterpreneur’, I am fully free to work as much as I want on maternity leave. I’m also not given any tax exemption, so I have to pay fixed social benefit tax even if I don’t work at all, as well as a floating earnings-based tax. 

 

Perhaps there’s a preconditioned view on the suggestion for changes, and it makes you think about “exceptions”, finances, special treatment (none other than of the super-duper rank Smiley LOL, because, of course, maternity is THAT unique hahah) So I have to honestly say: I do not feel problematic about working on maternity leave to some extent / loss of income / social benefits / risks to my career etc. 

 

Because that’s taken care of. 

 

The issue I have is being punished for being unavailable for full-time work, although it is clear, well-based and long-term. Especially if that punishment is losing a digital badge of excellence, invented & controlled by the platform. The real bottom line is, you see, in reality, I will be as qualified for it in a year, as I am now - specifically in terms of working long-term with clients and building great relationships with them. And although I’m not entitled to this abstract badge, it is not something so organic and large-scale, that changing it is like bending reality or equality.



P.S. I actually already received the award.

 

Best, Svitlana

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
18 of 33

You're not being "punished" and if you can work during maternity leave without losing your maternity pay from the government (this is not the case in all countries) then feel free to work and keep your badge by merit, not because you get special favours other freelancers are denied. What you are asking for is unfair and is yet another case of people demading that Upwork change their business model to gain personal benefits for themselves.


Get used to the fact that you are free to make decisions freely, but that all decisions have consequences. So if you don't work enough to earn the required amount for special badges, those badges go away because that is the way it is and it would be entirely unfair to make special dispensations for people who freely choose not to do what is needed to keep them..

sitehive
Active Member
Svitlana G Member Since: Feb 18, 2019
19 of 33

Petra R wrote:

You're not being "punished" and if you can work during maternity leave without losing your maternity pay from the government (this is not the case in all countries) then feel free to work and keep your badge by merit, not because you get special favours other freelancers are denied. What you are asking for is unfair and is yet another case of people demading that Upwork change their business model to gain personal benefits for themselves.


Get used to the fact that you are free to make decisions freely, but that all decisions have consequences. So if you don't work enough to earn the required amount for special badges, those badges go away because that is the way it is and it would be entirely unfair to make special dispensations for people who freely choose not to do what is needed to keep them..


Being restricted from work while on social benefits is pretty logical. I think it’s also fairly widespread (for unemployment support, for example) + it makes one good argument FOR an “Upwork maternity leave”. This limitation is more consequential and real, than for example my decision not to work.

 

I would think it goes without saying that a discussion on policy is not about a specific situation, and many cases should be considered. 

 

I share my case openly because that’s part of the necessary input from my side to start a conversation. It is simply dishonest to deny consideration to an issue by pretending that my situation is the only possible focus.

gilbert-phyllis
Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
20 of 33

Svitlana G wrote:

Hi Tonya Smiley Happy 

 

Let me answer with a question. Do you think listing many questions / concerns brings up information that was in the dark for everyone else? Would you say this is what’s called whataboutism? Did you have a chance to see Upwork’s update announcement re the TOS change that made everyone have calls through Upwork until there was a contract (summer 2020)? Did you notice a billion questions and concerns that were quite solid at many times and well-voiced? Did those questions change something or maybe simply raising questions does not yet prove anything? If we were thinking towards a solution instead, or at least consider that direction, would that help us get things done, like Upwork did, and later introduced the zoom integration? 

 

I’d say that the paternity issue and the question on the need / form of proving maternity seem solid for a discussion, but judging from the overall format of your post I’m not sure you intended to have one.


OK, you took umbrage at Tonya's rhetorical choices. Try this. I'd be more inclined to support this kind of initiative if it were conceptualized and framed to include more kinds of circumstances, not just maternity. I basically tanked my business during a period of years when I was deeply involved in caring for a declining parent. In the US, remaining unmarried and childless has cost me a fortune through tax advantages for which I was ineligible. Yes, the business world should be more accommodating of mothers And fathers. And daughters and sons. 

 

Insofar as UW goes, I think the whole discussion is moot due to practical considerations. But maybe this will help clarify some of the pushback you're getting.

 

TOP KUDOED MEMBERS