Minimum Wage Policy?

[martyn_watters]

Hello, Well after many years of hiring people on oDesk amounting to $7324 (and counting) I am afraid to say that due to the oDesk Minimum wage policy I will be leaving oDesk as quickly as possible and therefore I will not be using the oDesk website/system as a means to hire people anymore. I also wanted to hire someone 2 weeks ago but I couldn't as their minimum wage was $4.44 and for the work I wanted them to do it was not worth $4.44ph. The reason I use oDesk is that it gives me a competitive edge over my competitors and if I want to hire someone for $2.22 for repetitive tasks and they are willing to work for that who are oDesk to dictate otherwise? It seems oDesk is getting a bit too big for their boots and is obviously forgetting who the bosses really are. I will be voting with my feet i will begin phasing out my account in plenty of time for the 15th November 2014 deadline/demise. When and if oDesk ever change this policy please let me know. Thanks for reading

[stephenbrightman]

"if I want to hire someone for $2.22 for repetitive tasks and they are willing to work for that who are oDesk to dictate otherwise?" You live in the UK - you hire people for about £1.30 an hour because "that's all the work is worth". Any work is worth a human being's time, even if you ask them to sit and do nothing. Sick.

[marciamalory]

Maybe when you vote with your feet you will be replaced by a client who is willing to pay more but wouldn't use oDesk before because of its reputation for being a source of cheap, shoddy work.

[3dee_vision]

When Odesk introduced freelancer's application going auto-hidden, and due to that thousands of freelancers got affected very very badly, did you raise your voice? I bet you didn't.. But many sensible Clients did.. And now when Odesk introduced something on the favor of freelancers, you are going mad.. Its good to see Odesk is doing something against people like you, who wants to have quality but almost free service..

[natacharodriguez]

[quote=Martyn W.]I also wanted to hire someone 2 weeks ago but I couldn't as their minimum wage was $4.44 and for the work I wanted them to do it was not worth $4.44ph. [/quote] It's down to $3

[amitd1807]

Hi, I have raised my concern with Odesk several times regarding this minimum hourly rate cap of $4.44 on my account but the response and reasoning has been absolutely illogical. This is no rocket science, minimum wages and rates for freelancers and Clients if at all be applied should simply be based on skills and experience and on the job content. There cannot be a $4.44 cap for a simple data entry or a copy-paste task. This experiment by Odesk will at the end result in freelancers and Employers huge attrition from the Odesk platform until Odesk does something logical to tackle this. Both freelancers and Clients should be allowed to work at their agreeable terms and conditions based on the job skills and deliverables. Odesk should just be the authentic medium to ensure that all the contracts function ethically under a uniform policy for all. I would request the good heads at Odesk (the decision makers) to come together and re-look at this not-so required policy. Regards Amit Deb

[rolandofgilead]

" [...] and is obviously forgetting who the bosses really are"... ...are you serious? Even if you happen to hire me through oDesk, this doesn't make you my "boss". This makes you my client. Which is kinda different. You're not showing any kind of respect... clients like you should be avoided. You're based in the United Kingdom, right? Please, tell me: would YOU accept to work for a client (ANY kind of job, really) which pays you $2.22 per hour? Would you really manage to pay your bills and live your life? Let me answer: NO. The answer is NO. Again, you're showing no respect for other human beings. oDesk is trying to fix issues that people like YOU raised. That being said, there are a lot of good clients here on oDesk, which are just nice persons to work for, and do understand the basic needs of every human being. $2.22 is STARVING. Is the task simple and repetitive? It still takes time and efforts, and by paying out silly amounts you're simply spitting on your freelancers, in my humble opinion. Just one more thing: As a freelancer, I am the only boss to myself. I don't really need someone to shout out orders and treat me like a slave all the time. I choose my clients, as well as they choose me. I trust them, as well as they trust me. I provide them with great results, as long as they "play fair" and show respect to me. Please, always mind the difference: we're FREELANCERS, not SLAVES.

[tasamil]

[quote=Mattia Galliani] As a freelancer, I am the only boss to myself.

[g_nembhard]

This is the point I've always made. Even if a task is considered as 'simple', it still takes time and effort.

[katrinabeaver]

But we freelancers are all adults here. If a freelancer wants to waste their time at $.50 per hour and agree to work at that rate, then who is anyone else to tell them different? Is it the client's fault for taking them at that rate when they are offering it? Should the client "expect" a good job to be done for that rate? I see a lot of people blaming this on lowballing clients. If someone brings me a 2014 Camero and says, I'm going to sell it to you for $1,000 , I'm going to jump all over it, now if the motor is blown and the transmission is shot then oh well to me, I should not "expect" it to work at that price, but I sure hope it works. I think what the minimum wage helps the most is the feedback system. It is easy to refund a client $5 for 10 hours of work to avoid the bad feedback than it is,say, $40 for 10 hours of work. Maybe there will be less refunding to prevent poor feedback and make the feedback system more reliable.

[rolandofgilead]

...every country has its own wages. I know that freelancers from India, Philippines and similar countries can really manage to live a decent life with lower wages, BUT... that is ok just as long as their clients come from those same countries. This is not a racist speaking, this is how things should really go in order to maintain a balanced system. If every client from US, UK, Italy, Germany (and so on) decides to hire freelancers from India JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE "CHEAPER", you can see for yourself that more "expensive" freelancers are then forced to decrease their rates in order to remain competitive. But still, they really can't manage to live with $2.22 per hour. So, they lose some opportunities. They get less jobs. And when they really need to pay their bills, and don't have enough money, well, they're once again forced to accept lower and lower rates, just to survive 'till the end of the month. And this is kinda sad. I do have some clients from India, which really pay me an honest and fair rate. And then it's very upsetting seeing clients from supposedly "rich" countries which just think to be smart and fair when they pay their freelancers less than a roll of toilet paper. I'm not a genius, but I keep asking myself: "What the hell could I buy with $2.2?Should I really be working an entire hour just to afford a couple of candies? Probably yes, if there are no other alternatives. And this thing is really scary: my worst nightmare, as a freelancer. But hey, this is just my opinion.

[cmarnold]

I am from the US and my wage is 10 dollars an hour. That is what I need to make a living. I am sick of losing my jobs to people who ask for 3 dollars an hour. It even saddens me that companies are willing to pay that. 3 dollars an hour is just so little and you are working for nothing. I need to make a living too and people should hire based on quality and not price. The minimum wage should be at least 8 dollars.

[doreenmartel]

[quote=Clara Arnold]I am from the US and my wage is 10 dollars an hour. That is what I need to make a living. I am sick of losing my jobs to people who ask for 3 dollars an hour. It even saddens me that companies are willing to pay that. 3 dollars an hour is just so little and you are working for nothing. I need to make a living too and people should hire based on quality and not price. The minimum wage should be at least 8 dollars.[/quote] First of all, I've always been of the opinion (which is by the way supported by the IRS) that freelancers ARE NOT entitled to a minimum wage. We take risks, we own / run /set our own businesses up. Minimum wages are antithetical to freelancing in any way/shape/form and they merely hurt those who charge MORE. Some day people will realize that they MUST stop promoting their rates and start promoting their experience/quality of their work instead of trying to compete against people who can afford to work for less.

[a299a8f3]

Gucchi, Ferrari, Canlis restaurant, the Ritz Carlton, and countless other businesses charge premium rates for their products, services, or food and have only grown and expanded. If you compete with someone elses wage, you'll attract people who are focused on the bottom dollar.

Focus on the value provided and it's a completely different story. English is your first language? market it. You know and understand American culture, or the cultures of more afluent countries? use that to your adantage. Higher minimum wages only barr entry level workers from getting into the market place and it makes the cost of products, services and food go up because a business can't take the extra cost of increased minimum wages out of their bare minimum profit margins or else they'll go out of business and leave even more people unemployed without any oppertunity of earning a higher wage. Minimum wage is not meant to support someones livelyhood, only an oppertunity to gain the skill set to earn higher wages, if the minimum wage person is willing to learn the skill set to earn higher wages. 

[shamontiel]

I can't speak for everyone else, but I'd be more than happy if people paying under minimum wage would leave oDesk. It is ridiculous to see clients take advantage of freelancers for meagar pay. And the ones who are only willing to pay the least amount ALWAYS ask for the most work, usually request that you have no full-time job and want you to be available at all hours of the day. Basically you're mad because oDesk won't let some clients take advantage of greed. Works for me!

[10075d31]

I would agree that the wages of less than $3 are meager at best. I will say, however, that a trade only exists because it is beneficial to both parties. When cheap clients like this leave the site, a job that could've been created is now destroyed. There are less alternatives for the workers, especially the poorest ones who would accept this wage. They say that about half of the world lives on less than $2 a day. Although to some of us, these wages are petty, to some it means the world. We can tell employers to pay at least $3 an hour or they can leave the site, but this only reduces the supply of labor. Upwork was the solution to the poorest of people and it still is, but there are those who are incompetent and have low skills so they cannot find work here. It is stingy clients like this that provided them with a job. I hope that Upwork reconsiders

[stencil_media]

Wrote a big reply, internet went off, lost it all. Gutted. It basically said that you're wrong, but using lots more words and examples why.

[petra_r]

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@Spurgeon B wrote:

there are those who are incompetent and have low skills so they cannot find work here.

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 And you would want incompetents with low skills, and parasitic  wanna-be-clients who exploit their desperation on this platform why, exactly?

Asides, this policy was introduced over 2 years ago. It isn't going away.

[10075d31]

I just mentioned that a trade has to be beneficial for both parties to exist. In your vantage point, it may be exploitation, but from those who depend on those wages it is their subsistence. It is the low skill, incompetent workers who need the experience and opportunity to eventually raise their wages. Everyone has to start somewhere. To use an analogy: Payday loans may be exploitative to some, but to many it was an alternative that they needed and it was beneficial to both parties. Though the interest rates were exorbitant, that person was able to receive the funding needed to cover their short-term emergency. Similarly, people don't have to utilize a lower valued alternative. They only do so after they weigh what their options are. I don't see why it matters to you anyhow. It doesn't affect you, because you seem like an intelligent person who would probably not accept such low wages. Also, it doesn't seem that you have the need to hire such low paying workers, so why bother advocating for the $3/hr. wage? How does this policy affect you specifically? Is it because you care for the reputation of the site? Or does it annoy you to see such low paying work?

[prestonhunter]

Spurgeon, Upwork is not arguing with any of the facts that you cite. Nor is Upwork arguing with your philosophy on this matter.

It is simply making a business decision regarding where it wants to position itself in the marketplace. Upwork finds that it is profitable to set a certain minimum hourly rate.

There is no need for you to look any further than that for the reasonining behind the rate.

Upwork's decision does not prevent you from using other platforms or alternative means of hiring people or working as a freelancer which allow for lower hourly rates, no hourly rate minimum or higher minimum rates. There is a lot of freedom going on here.

[10075d31]

I agree completely. Thank you for sharing that

[petra_r]

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@Spurgeon B wrote:

 It is the low skill, incompetent workers who need the experience and opportunity to eventually raise their wages. Everyone has to start somewhere.

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 Yes. Everyone CAN start "somewhere!"

It does not have to be at sweatshop rates, and it does not have to be here.

Upwork has stopped accepting the kind of freelancer who would be a candidate for such rates anyway, and if it deters the bottom-dweller clients who come here in the hope of finding people to exploit then all the better.

[stencil_media]

Just because something doesn't affect somebody, doesn't mean it's not important. Should I ignore child poverty, human trafficking,  modern day slavery and poaching of endangered species.... just because it doesn't directly affect my day to day life? Or maybe you're happy to ignore such things if they mean you can pay the lowest amount possible, to the people you so kindly provide work for?

[10075d31]

The policy doesn't affect me either. The people who had those wages probably didn't see their wage go up because of the change. They probably lost their job. That didn't help them at all. You can make employers raise their wages to continue on the site, but you can't force them to hire. The person who started this post will no longer hire here. Will you then provide for the workers who lost their jobs? 

[petra_r]

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@Spurgeon B wrote:

The person who started this post will no longer hire here.

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 1) You know this.... how? If I had a Dollar for every post that announced someone stamping their feet and abandoning the site who is still here years later I could retire tomorrow.

2) This is a business, not a charity. The sweatshop mentality of that market (on both the client and the freelancer side) was not a profitable or beneficial to have market segment. So good riddance.

Nobody needs to have "lost their job" as clients were able to continue their relationships with their existing freelancers below the minimum rate. They just can not hire any new ones at that price.

[10075d31]

Good point. Thanks for the responses

[gerrys]

So sad.

Here's a $1.

[charles_kozierok]

.... and another request to auto-close old posts or at least put the original post date on the thread list.