ramzan33
Member

Most of the Client want free test job .

Hello Author ,
I have worked here since 2013 . Most of the client wants to see quality of work without spending money . I have seen always most of the client told to do a free test job for hiring freelancer for photo editing job . Sometimes they didn't hire freelancer because when their file was only three or four . When they post their job then they want to complete their test file to see work quality . Most of all freelancer completed the test job without money to get that job but they didn't hire because their task completed . Is it really sad . Please let me know what should i do ? Please let me know your think .

 

Best Regards

 

Ramzanul
58 REPLIES 58

is real true. is verry hard to have a job

Anonymous User
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@Md.Ramzanul H wrote:

Hello Author ,
I have worked here since 2013 . Most of the client wants to see quality of work without spending money . I have seen always most of the client told to do a free test job for hiring freelancer for photo editing job . Sometimes they didn't hire freelancer because when their file was only three or four . When they post their job then they want to complete their test file to see work quality . Most of all freelancer completed the test job without money to get that job but they didn't hire because their task completed . Is it really sad . Please let me know what should i do ? Please let me know your think .

 

Best Regards

 


Sad but true. However, you should not work for such clients. Report them to customer service and provide screenshots of your conversation. At least they will be booked. I do not know if clients have been banned from the platform because of free work. Perhaps some of them who do not stop their practices.

Hello Margarete,

 

Thank you very much for you information but most of the client who hired photo editor they want always free test file. SO Upwork block everyone ? Is it the solution ? 

Ramzanul

I think: You can't always get what you want.

 

Ramzanul:

this may come as a surprise to you, but contractors who work for free earn less money than contractors who work for paying clients.

 

it's math

I LOVE when this happens. I hope all my competition gives away free work so they can stay poor and eventually go homeless only to lose their Internet connection and sell off their laptop. That would be great.

reichstephen
Member

If a job proposal asks for a free test i ignore it.

 

Sounds like that client has no idea what they are looking for.

 

Dont waste my time, there are plenty of jobs out there.

 

 

 

 

 

If all Upwork contractors politely but firmly refused to do free work, then clients would know they can't ask contractors to do free work.

 

I blame the free-working contractors for this phenomenon more than I blame the clients.

Hello Prestion,

 

I faced same problem also and i gave few test but they didn't hire me . Then i decided i don't give any free test . Everybody should aware the matter .

 

Thanks

Joynul

Joynul, thanks for sharing your experiences. I think you learned, and that's awesome.

 

As you probably already realize by now:

 

When you did a few tests and they didn't hire you, it wasn't because your test submissions weren't good enough for you to get hired. It was because they didn't hire anybody. They never intended to hire anybody. They got everything they needed for free from contractors doing free work for them.

"They never intended to hire anybody."

 

Eureka!

 

What a rip off. Why does Upwork allow clients to ask for free tests?

 

I have to say i never thought of this.

 

If you get multiple free tests i guarantee you get a finished project.

 

Wham Bam thank you Mam!

 

Hello Stephen ,

I faced many problem . When i joined Upwork then i get a Glamour Retouching job and that client ask for test file i didn't agree with him.  After get a mileston i was worked then he told me your work is not good i redo that job six time again he said your work is not good . Then he wanted to back her money and i gave him . This is my practical experience .

 

Thanks !

Joynul

Oh well Joynul it looks like you do great work.

If you have 10 clients you hope 10 love your work.

Unfortunately there could be one who can never be happy.

Ignore them and move on.

Live and learn. 

 

The most challenging client i had was happy after i did 16 revisions to one logo.

16 revisions, say that slowly. I almost went crazy.

I delivered but lost a piece of my sanity along the way.

 

 

Hello Stephen,

 

Really it's great Experience working with some special clients !!

 

Thanks !

Joynul

whta should i do sir. my client wants to make  a revison on my test job and i notice that she only pays former freelancers with the same job for less.. she looks nice and her words sounds encouraging but she requires me for a revision on a test job. her sample work is a revision of my former design... is this a legit client or not, how u can give me wisdom ... im just new here. thank uuu

Hi David,

 

Please note that any requesting for free work is not allowed on Upwork, and it is a violation of the Terms of Service. It's important to note that you should never start working without an active contract, which would show on your My Jobs page.

Please check out this post for more tips on how to avoid questionable jobs and use the flag option found on each job post or message anytime you’d like to report a violation.

Additionally, could you please send me a private message with more information on this so that I can check?

 

Thank you.

~ Aleksandar
Upwork

Hello Preston,

 

Yes, i have seen many client who took the method .

 

Thanks !

Joynul

re: "Why does Upwork allow clients to ask for free tests?"

 

Upwork doesn't allow clients to ask for free tests.

 

Upwork specifically disallows it in its ToS.

 

But Upwork's user interface is one which allows for open communication between clients and contractors, and there's no physical way to prevent clients from asking for free tests.

 

Also, Upwork's client-side interface allows for free-form writing of job descriptions and quick and easy posting of job descriptions. There is some automated software-based checking of job descriptions, and there is some manual worker-based checking of job descriptions. But neither of these are fool-proof, and it is possible for job descriptions to slip through the cracks and appear on the site even if they ask for free tests or otherwise violate ToS rules right within the body of the job proposal.

 

Users can click on the "report as inappropriate" button at the top of each job proposal and typically blatant violations of ToS such as asking for free work will cause a job posting to be removed quickly.

 

(Note that attempts to subvert bans on academic fraud are not classified as "blatant.")


@Preston H wrote:

re: "Why does Upwork allow clients to ask for free tests?"

 

Upwork doesn't allow clients to ask for free tests.


 Yes they do. Repeating a fallacy over and over again does not make it any more accurate.

 

There is (on Planet Upwork) a grey area between what they consider "free work" (which is not allowed) and what they consider "a small test" (which is acceptable to Upwork.)

 

Upwork deliberately stays very vague as to where one ends and the other one begins but the general consensus seems to be that asking all applicants to do the same small (few minutes - "small" in relation to the overall work asked for) test task tends to be OK - breaking up a large task into lots of small tasks and asking freelancers to do a different one each, in order to get the whole job done for free obviously isn't.

 

Personally I don't entertain any unpaid anything (be it called a test or be it called free work) for any small contracts (a few hundred Dollars or less) but MAY be persuaded to invest a little time when it comes to contracts worth many thousands or tens of thousands of Dollars.

 

For the little ones I tell the client I'll be more than happy to do their test, and suggest they set up a test contract at $ X for it.

 

If they do, FINE (and I have successfully used that tactic several times, got a test contract, completed it, and was hired for the main contract as a result) - if they don't - not an issue, we thank each other and go our merry ways.

 

When it comes to HUGE contracts I really want I am more willing to be a little more flexible.

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How much money may Upwork have lost (and freelancers as well) by unpaid work?


@Margarete M wrote:

How much money may Upwork have lost (and freelancers as well) by unpaid work?


 Lots, no doubt.

 

I learned that lesson very early on, in my first month here, when I was bidding on a seemingly great and lucrative translation job. Client asked for a sample translation and not knowing any better I translated an absolute BEEP of a text. Spent an hour on it, too.

 

Of course in the end that client never hired anyone and when I did a google search for a passage I had translated, low and behold I found the entire project online, clearly the client had sent a bit of the translation he needed doing to every applicant, as the German version was CLEARLY done by 10 or more different people of different translation abilities and in different styles.

 

I had the last laugh as I contacted the website owner asking them to remove my work as it was unpaid for, and all hell broke loose for the scamming "client!"

 

That is when I radically changed my approach to "test" work, asking to be hired and paid for anything I consider "free work."

 

The (very, 2 that I remember, possibly 3 times) few times (after that initial "wake up call") when I did do "unpaid testing" it was not producing anything the client could have used in any way - such as completing a standardized aptitude test for example, were only for very large contracts (to the tune of multiple 10s of thousand Dollars) so I will continue to consider the time spent a very good investment.

 

The problem is that scamming clients only have to find a few eager newbies (as I was when I fell for the free work scam above) or desperate people who don't learn their lesson after giving their work away for nothing once or twice.

 

It takes a bit of critical thinking and business acumen to intelligently decide when to invest a little time and when it would be a waste of time.

Petra: thank you for the clarification.


@Margarete M wrote:

How much money may Upwork have lost (and freelancers as well) by unpaid work?


Hello,

I think milion and milion ......... 

Ramzanul


@Petra R wrote:

@Preston H wrote:

re: "Why does Upwork allow clients to ask for free tests?"

 

Upwork doesn't allow clients to ask for free tests.


 Yes they do. Repeating a fallacy over and over again does not make it any more accurate.

 

There is (on Planet Upwork) a grey area between what they consider "free work" (which is not allowed) and what they consider "a small test" (which is acceptable to Upwork.)

 

Upwork deliberately stays very vague as to where one ends and the other one begins but the general consensus seems to be that asking all applicants to do the same small (few minutes - "small" in relation to the overall work asked for) test task tends to be OK - breaking up a large task into lots of small tasks and asking freelancers to do a different one each, in order to get the whole job done for free obviously isn't.

 

Personally I don't entertain any unpaid anything (be it called a test or be it called free work) for any small contracts (a few hundred Dollars or less) but MAY be persuaded to invest a little time when it comes to contracts worth many thousands or tens of thousands of Dollars.

 

For the little ones I tell the client I'll be more than happy to do their test, and suggest they set up a test contract at $ X for it.

 

If they do, FINE (and I have successfully used that tactic several times, got a test contract, completed it, and was hired for the main contract as a result) - if they don't - not an issue, we thank each other and go our merry ways.

 

When it comes to HUGE contracts I really want I am more willing to be a little more flexible.


Hello ,

I agree with you but most of all client take this advantage . They want free test file to see work quality . Do you want prove please see how many freelancer applied the job post and how many freelancer to invited to do the test file . Have a look Please : **Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

I hope you will understand ,,,,,,,,,,

 

Thanks !

 

Ramzanul


@Preston H wrote:

If all Upwork contractors politely but firmly refused to do free work, then clients would know they can't ask contractors to do free work.

 

I blame the free-working contractors for this phenomenon more than I blame the clients.


 I think the blame falls sqaurely on Upwork itself. I was asked for a free work sample from a client who had spent tens of thousands on the platform. When I questioned it, he double checked with customer chat and they confirmed that while 'free work' is not allowed, 'free test samples' are.

 

I have tried to confirm what this means with support and moderators multiple times and the only answer I've received is a vague 'some free test samples are allowed for certain jobs.' If Upwork is advising clients that they can ask for free test samples, freelancers seem uninformed when we explain that it's not allowed.

Hello Stephen ,

Most of all client took this advantage . Do you want to see prove i will show you many and more everyday . 

Thanks !

 

Ramzanul

 


@Md.Ramzanul H wrote:

 

Most of all client took this advantage . Do you want to see prove i will show you many and more everyday . 

Thanks !

 


 They can only take advantage if you actively let them by giving your work away for free.

 

 


@Petra R wrote:

 


@Md.Ramzanul H wrote:

 

Most of all client took this advantage . Do you want to see prove i will show you many and more everyday . 

Thanks !

 


 They can only take advantage if you actively let them by giving your work away for free.

 

 


If I put it off to them does not work, because they offer a lot of free work to a freelancer.

Ramzanul


@Md.Ramzanul H wrote:

@Petra R wrote:

 


@Md.Ramzanul H wrote:

 

Most of all client took this advantage . Do you want to see prove i will show you many and more everyday . 

Thanks !

 


 They can only take advantage if you actively let them by giving your work away for free.

 

 


If I put it off to them does not work, because they offer a lot of free work to a freelancer.


What does not work? Why would you not want to ignore time-wasting, time-sucking, scamming "clients"?

 

[edited to add:] If Petra is accurately quoting your rates, you have placed yourself exactly where such predatory clients like to fish. Success on Upwork does not come from chasing after volume of jobs; it comes from pursuing premium clients at professional rates. Professional rates will attract such clients.

lomen_jan
Member

My issue is why there is not a option in job post for clients that they can run paid test during interview without hiring. If the job poster wants to test his applicants, he surely can do that but majority of our (graphic design and creative) job are usually half of the job done during test phase and mostly we invest our ideas and aesthetic into it, what could easily be ripped off lately. 

As a raging problem here, I don't see any our constructive criticisms taken in observation - starting with brief template, to the fight against the spec work. 

Problem with test work is that is run as hiring job and runs on algorithm that makes our JSS score. How would I know if client would bother give me feedback if he chose another to do job based on his preferences? How would I rate that said client? And yes, all the paid test should be hourly based. I cannot deliver them test illustration for a price of 5$. Potential clients are not my friend and family. 

re: "And yes, all the paid test should be hourly based."

 

I agree.

 

Regardless of what clients are able to get away with, and regardless of the stated rules and physical restrictions, of any particular platform, it is not ethical or acceptable for clients to get contractors to work for them for free.

 

(I'm setting aside the small "sample tests" that Petra refers to, whch should take only minute of time and which are not meant to get a project done but which are meant to filter out total posers and incompetents.)

 

It is not okay for clients to have contractors work for them for free. This is not part of the "interviewing" or "screening" process.

 

And, yes, when a client is having new contractors do small amounts of work for them that is part of testing out that contractor's skills, that should be hourly based.

 

The wise client will have the new contractor actually work on a part of the project. Just don't assign the whole, big project at once. If the work is acceptable, it can be used.

 

This DOES NOT NEED TO COST A LOT. If contractors work for relatively low rates, then hiring a contractor to work for only a small amount of time on a paid test might only cost a few dollars.

 

Unfortunately, many clients don't know this. IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY as contractors to politely guide them and educate them.

 

If you go to a Japanese karate dojo to learn karate, maybe you don't know that you're supposed to take of your shoes before proceeding onto the mats. If you don't know this, it doesn't make you a bad person. But the sensei still doesn't let you go onto the mats with your shoes. He tells you to take your shoes off. The sensei isn't worried that you'll be offended or that you won't want to take karate lessons. You simply don't go onto the mats with your shoes. It's not okay.

 

Asking for free work is not okay here. Contractors who don't help enforce this are bad contractors.


@Preston H wrote:

re: "And yes, all the paid test should be hourly based."

 

I agree.

 

Regardless of what clients are able to get away with, and regardless of the stated rules and physical restrictions, of any particular platform, it is not ethical or acceptable for clients to get contractors to work for them for free.

 

(I'm setting aside the small "sample tests" that Petra refers to, whch should take only minute of time and which are not meant to get a project done but which are meant to filter out total posers and incompetents.)

 

It is not okay for clients to have contractors work for them for free. This is not part of the "interviewing" or "screening" process.

 

And, yes, when a client is having new contractors do small amounts of work for them that is part of testing out that contractor's skills, that should be hourly based.

 

The wise client will have the new contractor actually work on a part of the project. Just don't assign the whole, big project at once. If the work is acceptable, it can be used.

 

This DOES NOT NEED TO COST A LOT. If contractors work for relatively low rates, then hiring a contractor to work for only a small amount of time on a paid test might only cost a few dollars.

 

Unfortunately, many clients don't know this. IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY as contractors to politely guide them and educate them.

 

If you go to a Japanese karate dojo to learn karate, maybe you don't know that you're supposed to take of your shoes before proceeding onto the mats. If you don't know this, it doesn't make you a bad person. But the sensei still doesn't let you go onto the mats with your shoes. He tells you to take your shoes off. The sensei isn't worried that you'll be offended or that you won't want to take karate lessons. You simply don't go onto the mats with your shoes. It's not okay.

 

Asking for free work is not okay here. Contractors who don't help enforce this are bad contractors.


Hello,

 

I agree with your informatio but for your kind information many client who got platinum tier batch on their profile they want also free test file . Do you want to see please have a look: **Edited for Community Guidelines**

This test working value is more than $50 . 

So how can we tech them that client also a pro member here and spend $50,000 here !!!

 

Thanks !

 

Ramzanul

re: "I agree with your informatio but for your kind information many client who got platinum tier batch on their profile they want also free test file . Do you want to see please have a look:**Edited for Community Guidelines**

So how can we tech them that client also a pro member here and spend $50,000 here !!!"

 

Yeah, but this client is clearly ACTUALLY PAYING PEOPLE.

 

And the client is having EVERYBODY who applies do the EXACT SAME TEST. So they're not getting their project done by tricking lots of contractors into doing parts of it.

 

I don't necessarily love it, but I can see how this is acceptable.

 

As Petra has alluded to, there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between an actual client who pays real money to do paid work to lots of contractors asking for a small test, versus scammer clients who trick contractors into doing their jobs.

 

I'm a huge critic of clients asking to do work for free, but even I can see the legitimacy of this request from a client who has paid contractors more than $50,000.


@Md.Ramzanul H wrote:


Hello,

 

I agree with your informatio but for your kind information many client who got platinum tier batch on their profile they want also free test file . Do you want to see please have a look: **Edited for Community Guidelines**

This test working value is more than $50 .


 WHAT ?

 

More than $ 50? It looks like a dead simple tiny photo editing job that would take anyone with photoshop experience no time at all. I PLAY with photoshop for fun and I could do this...

 

You work at hourly rates of $ 5, $ 6ish an hour. Are you saying it would take you up to 5 to 10 hours to make those elementary, simple changes to a simple image?

 

The client is hiring for an ongoing hourly contract of a minimum of 25 to 40 hours a week. So this is not a tiny contract. The client is not asking 50 freelancers to do 50 different test pictures. The client wants to see what 50 freelancers can do with one small simple image to decide who is suitable and who is not.


@Petra R wrote:

@Md.Ramzanul H wrote:


Hello,

 

I agree with your informatio but for your kind information many client who got platinum tier batch on their profile they want also free test file . Do you want to see please have a look: **Edited for Community Guidelines**

This test working value is more than $50 .


 WHAT ?

 

More than $ 50? It looks like a dead simple tiny photo editing job that would take anyone with photoshop experience no time at all. I PLAY with photoshop for fun and I could do this...

 

You work at hourly rates of $ 5, $ 6ish an hour. Are you saying it would take you SEVERAL HOURS to make those elementary, simple changes to a simple image?

 

The client is hiring for an ongoing contract of a minimum of 25 to 40 hours a week. So this is not a tiny contract. The client is not asking 50 freelancers to do 50 different test pictures. The client wants to see what 50 freelancers can do with one image to decide who is suitable and who is not.


Yes it's a ongoing job and i show it for a little example . but you have no idea about photo editing job . Do you know frequency  separation , high end beauty retouching , glamour retouching it's look like same on her sample image . Please have a look another job then you will get a idea what i am saying **Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Thanks for you compliment ........

Ramzanul

So you are seriously saying it would take you TEN hours to retouch that one image?

 

 


@Petra R wrote:

So you are seriously saying it would take you TEN hours to retouch that one image?

 

 


Hello,

I think you didn't understand my passion .... what i was said ..... I didn't mean the rate  !!!!

Ramzanul


@Jan L wrote:

My issue is why there is not a option in job post for clients that they can run paid test during interview without hiring. If the job poster wants to test his applicants, he surely can do that but majority of our (graphic design and creative) job are usually half of the job done during test phase and mostly we invest our ideas and aesthetic into it, what could easily be ripped off lately. 

As a raging problem here, I don't see any our constructive criticisms taken in observation - starting with brief template, to the fight against the spec work. 

Problem with test work is that is run as hiring job and runs on algorithm that makes our JSS score. How would I know if client would bother give me feedback if he chose another to do job based on his preferences? How would I rate that said client? And yes, all the paid test should be hourly based. I cannot deliver them test illustration for a price of 5$. Potential clients are not my friend and family. 


 Jan, graphic design is much easier in regards to test jobs. Graphic designers have portfolios. They speak for themselves. Some clients invite me to their jobs because they had seen my portfolio, complement me and request that I do a logo for them. There's not even a single mention of a test job (whether free or not).

 

So, what I usually do is, if a client asks me to do a simple free job, I tell them they can look at my portfolio and decide if they like my style. Then I tell them that I don't do sketches as a test job (free or not) knowing that I may not be accepted (for whatever reason) to finish what I started. I am all in or I am not at all. In graphic design I can't see it otherwise.

 

So, use your portfolio to protect yourself from exploitive clients.

 

Personally I don't like test jobs. It instantly makes me feel like an employee, not a freelancer. I feel like a high-school graduate who's fresh out of college, with no experience at all, in order to prove anything. After all, I'm not trying to impress the President. For that matter, I don't try to impress anyone. If a client likes my work, they can count on me. If they are hesitant, why stick with me in the first place?


@Evelina Z wrote:

@Jan L wrote:

My issue is why there is not a option in job post for clients that they can run paid test during interview without hiring. If the job poster wants to test his applicants, he surely can do that but majority of our (graphic design and creative) job are usually half of the job done during test phase and mostly we invest our ideas and aesthetic into it, what could easily be ripped off lately. 

As a raging problem here, I don't see any our constructive criticisms taken in observation - starting with brief template, to the fight against the spec work. 

Problem with test work is that is run as hiring job and runs on algorithm that makes our JSS score. How would I know if client would bother give me feedback if he chose another to do job based on his preferences? How would I rate that said client? And yes, all the paid test should be hourly based. I cannot deliver them test illustration for a price of 5$. Potential clients are not my friend and family. 


 Jan, graphic design is much easier in regards to test jobs. Graphic designers have portfolios. They speak for themselves. Some clients invite me to their jobs because they had seen my portfolio, complement me and request that I do a logo for them. There's not even a single mention of a test job (whether free or not).

 

So, what I usually do is, if a client asks me to do a simple free job, I tell them they can look at my portfolio and decide if they like my style. Then I tell them that I don't do sketches as a test job (free or not) knowing that I may not be accepted (for whatever reason) to finish what I started. I am all in or I am not at all. In graphic design I can't see it otherwise.

 

So, use your portfolio to protect yourself from exploitive clients.

 

Personally I don't like test jobs. It instantly makes me feel like an employee, not a freelancer. I feel like a high-school graduate who's fresh out of college, with no experience at all, in order to prove anything. After all, I'm not trying to impress the President. For that matter, I don't try to impress anyone. If a client likes my work, they can count on me. If they are hesitant, why stick with me in the first place?


Your words have a argued but many freelancer give the test job without getting money then how can we protect the method ? 

Ramzanul