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voiceofcandice
Community Member

Musing - When NO ONE is hired

I did search "no one hired" before I wrote this, but I didn't find anything.  I'm probably not using the correct terminology, and there probably is a thread already on this topic, but oh well.  It's late, I've had a glass of wine, and I want to say some things (think Festivus... lol)

I'm fine when I am not selected for a job posting.  My voice is not for everyone.  In fact, sometimes even I know it may not be the best for the the posting - but you never know if you don't try.

 

But what does bother me a bit is when NO ONE is hired.  

 

Now "rational me" understands that this is one of many ways that a client may be seeking talent.  It could be the case that they have a job board, or are also on one of the other freelance websites.  I want to believe that the job WAS real, and that they found the talent using a different platform.

 

But "I used 6 connects and NO ONE WAS HIRED FROM UPWORK me" is displeased

 

It seems to be a little disrespectful to the freelancers when no one is hired.  And sometimes the client hasn't looked at the posting in days/months/ OR EVEN YEARS - in one case and the post is still live.

 

Now I know some of the rather rude commenters on here would say, "Don't look back. Keep moving forward to the next opportunity" or "that's why it's always a good idea to check the posting date" (though not nearly as politely as that.) And, for the most part, that is what I do.

 

But out of respect to the freelancers, it might be nice to have some type of deadline for job postings and penalty for the clients when that happens.  Perhaps a no hire fee (I know Upwork is still struggling with profitability.) 

Or if UPWORK REALLY WANTED TO MAKE IT FAIR. 

What about returning 1 (ONE) connect to each applicant and making that the cost of penalty to the client. That would be a whopping $0.15 per applicant.  At 50 applicants that would still only be... $7.50. 

Heck, charge them $0.20 per returned connect and make a little profit.  They'd be charged $10.00 - $7.50 worth of connects would be returned to the applicants and $2.50 would go to Upwork!!!!  Honestly, with the number of long-term-no-hire postings I've seen, that could be a revenue stream!

 

And really... I've never even seen a 1 connect posting (most are 4-6) so this would be more of a "token" than a renumeration.  But it would go a long way towards respecting the freelancer "cost of applying" when no one is hired for the position from the Upwork.

 

Of course, this could lead to fewer positions listed.  And I know that having all the jobs encourages new freelancers.  But if they aren't hiring on the Upwork... Who's really making money? (And isn't that the point of it all????) 

I'm sure if you looked at the data, most of these clients are probably on the Basic (free) plan. So Upwork isn't getting paid; no freelancer was paid... what's the true loss if those listings aren't there?  

 

Again, I do not mind losing a position to another freelancer.  That's the way the game is played and I wish them MUCH success on the project. 

But when I lose to NO ONE it does rather bother me a bit.

That is all. :)

15 REPLIES 15
michael_skaggs
Community Member

The way I look at it, I take the marketplace concept and run with it. Meaning to me, Upwork is nothing but a store where someone can come and find an individual to do a task for them.

 

Like any store, there's a cost involved in putting items on the shelf, and those costs are borne by the brands trying to promote themselves for purchase. With Upwork, it's really no different, and the connects are just "the cost of doing business."

 

If someone walks into a store and doesn't find what they're looking for, then they're not required to buy anything. But the expenses involved in promoting items to sell don't change, and they don't get refunded to the supplier if nobody makes a purchase on a particular item.

 

Basically, it's a long way of saying "don't let it bother you, and just talk to your tax professional about writing connects off as an expense." Much less stress that way.

In addition to what Michael pointed out, charging clients is a horrible idea, as it results in less clients and less job posts and less contracts, which would be far more detrimental to the freelancer community than losing a few connects.

 

Ultimately, when I don't get hired, I didn't get hired. It actually really doesn't matter whether someone else was hired or nobody was hired. The cost of the connects and the fact that I wasn't hired remain exactly the same.

 

I remember you. As I said, I do move forward. But this posting could probably be removed.

No one like bots on dating sites or even Twitter, so perhaps we could expect "non real" opportunities to be removed from a job site...

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


Candice W wrote:
No one like bots on dating sites or even Twitter, so perhaps we could expect "non real" opportunities to be removed from a job site...

Who decides what postings are "non real"? Would that be actual scams? Or do you mean jobs that don't end up hiring anyone?

 

If a job is suspicious, any freelancer can report it. If it violates the ToS, it will be removed. But removing job posts just because they haven't hired anyone will drive clients away. Perhaps they haven't found anyone yet, but are leaving it open in the hopes that they do? But there's no way to know that, so we have the system as it stands. Obvious fakes/scams are reported and removed, while everything else is left up to the freelancer to use their own judgement on.

 

And that's the key to everytyhing. Upwork is, as I mentioned, nothing more than a marketplace. It's up to you as a business-owner to decide which opportunities are worth pursuing, and which raise too many red flags to be worth your time. That's something nobody can decide except you.

I think you should run Upwork. The Community Guru's should NOT be rude to the freelancers just because they can be. 

That is a good way of looking at it. I do generally look forward, but this posting really got to me...

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

I almost applied. I was searching better paying opportunities. There are that many in voice over. The list was only 55 postings and I didn't realize how far back in time it had gone. Thank goodness I looked first.

But this probably could be removed....

tlsanders
Community Member

If the client chooses to hire through another channel, isn't that choosing another freelancer over you in exactly the same way it would be if the client hired a different Upwork freelancer? It makes little sense to me to say, "It's cool not to choose me, but you must choose someone else who bid on this particular site, even if the best freelancer comes through a different channel."

 

I know that freelancers often think that because the stats say the client hasn't visited the job, it's been abandoned. But, Upwork stats are often wrong or slow to update. And, more importantly, as a client I very rarely see a reason to visit a job posting, since Upwork sends me enough email updates about the freelancers who have bid on my jobs to make me consider canceling the job just to make it stop. They email great matches. They email new bids. They email OLD bids with a lie in the subject line that it's a new bid. There's really no reason at all to ever visit the post unless someone who seems like a great option crops up in email.

 

Finally, it's beyond bizarre that you consider it rude (in bold no less) when experienced freelancers tell frustrated newcomers what they've learned about reducing stress and increasing success on Upwork.

The rudeness has to do with tone. One person in particular, who I have reported, has a tone that is absolutely superior and unwelcoming. It actually dettered me from participating in conversations at one point. Then I decided to report. And I will continue to do so.

As a college professor, I know that is is possible to impart knowledge to others in a way that is respectful. I have knowledge my students do not have and it is my job to share that knowledge and correct them when they make mistakes in reasoning. And I can do that without offending them.
I expect the same of anyone in this community.

When people do not, I will call them out and I will report them to the moderators. It is not acceptable.

And on March 2., a few days after I posted this, Upwork started beta testing EXACTLY what I recommended, but even better. Obviously, they were already aware that what I posted actually was a problem for freelancers who don't want just to follow along blindly and waste resources. Freelancers who recognized that the system needed to be improved to their benefit.

So perhaps the "community knowledge" wasn't actually that knowledgeable...


Candice W wrote:
The rudeness has to do with tone. One person in particular, who I have reported, has a tone that is absolutely superior and unwelcoming. It actually dettered me from participating in conversations at one point. Then I decided to report. And I will continue to do so.

As a college professor, I know that is is possible to impart knowledge to others in a way that is respectful. I have knowledge my students do not have and it is my job to share that knowledge and correct them when they make mistakes in reasoning. And I can do that without offending them.
I expect the same of anyone in this community.

 

Wait. You're a college professor and you find it both reasonable and necessary to seek protection from a large corporation against another person using an unpleasant tone with you? 


Candice W wrote:
The rudeness has to do with tone. One person in particular, who I have reported, has a tone that is absolutely superior and unwelcoming. It actually dettered me from participating in conversations at one point. Then I decided to report. And I will continue to do so.

As a college professor, I know that is is possible to impart knowledge to others in a way that is respectful. I have knowledge my students do not have and it is my job to share that knowledge and correct them when they make mistakes in reasoning. And I can do that without offending them.
I expect the same of anyone in this community.

When people do not, I will call them out and I will report them to the moderators. It is not acceptable.

And on March 2., a few days after I posted this, Upwork started beta testing EXACTLY what I recommended, but even better. Obviously, they were already aware that what I posted actually was a problem for freelancers who don't want just to follow along blindly and waste resources. Freelancers who recognized that the system needed to be improved to their benefit.

So perhaps the "community knowledge" wasn't actually that knowledgeable...

This topic and many others, that may or may not be implemented, have been discussed here in the forums for a long time.
And it has been done by people with years of experience in Upwork and with great knowledge of the platform.
And among these people there are rude, shy, funny and, sometimes a little crazy.
But everyone tries to help.
And that you ask for help because someone has been rude to you (if that can be called rudeness) is, sorry, childish.


Candice W wrote:
The rudeness has to do with tone. One person in particular, who I have reported, has a tone that is absolutely superior and unwelcoming. It actually dettered me from participating in conversations at one point. Then I decided to report. And I will continue to do so.

As a college professor, I know that is is possible to impart knowledge to others in a way that is respectful. I have knowledge my students do not have and it is my job to share that knowledge and correct them when they make mistakes in reasoning. And I can do that without offending them.
I expect the same of anyone in this community.

When people do not, I will call them out and I will report them to the moderators. It is not acceptable.


You are aware that most people helping in the forum are not getting paid, right?

voiceofcandice
Community Member

OMG!!!!!

So today, I saw my first upwork post with connects refunded if no one was hired....

So maybe it wasn't such a crazy idea.

Not that I thought it was crazy. I knew it was actually quite good. Probably because development and implementation of ideas like that are kinda sorta what I do for a living at my full time gig.... ๐Ÿ˜‚

8 know what a bad system looks like. And I finally found the thread and found that others do as well. This was not a new complaint and upwork responded in a way that shows respect and concern for the freelancers. Take a hint.

Now obviously, you can choose to maintain your position regarding "business model" or "moving forward" and refuse the returned connects.

But if you do decide to accept the returned connects, you can thank all the people who said the system was not balanced.

You're welcome.

And kudos to upwork for realizing, unlike some others, that having too many jobs without hires is actually NOT OK as it is a waste of freelancer resources. And that some freelancers, who don't want to continously waste time and money, will leave and go to other sites.

Like I said in the first post, there is a big difference between not hiring ME and not hiring anyone.

If I apply for 100 jobs and another artist was hired, then that's a ME problem. Either I need to select better poatings or up my game.

If I apply to 100 jobs and NO ONE was hired, that's an upwork problem and they need to up their client selection /game.

Glad they recognized that difference.

CW,

 

Thanks so much for your input and very legitimate concern.

 

As a veteran UWer, however, I can only state that I would not go spending those "Refunded if client doesn't hire" Connects just yet.

 

As you yourself are aware, there are any number of ways in which UW allows unscrupulous clients to near endlessly renew their sketchy posts--for months and months--without ever hiring anyone.

In my niche (writing & translation) I would consertively say that at present 8 out of every 10 job posts are not even worth taking the time to review, and the flood of continuously reposted garbage jobs is becoming ever more taxing to wade through on the daily.

I've personally spent many more hours than I care to share fighting to get UW to live up to their own ToU with little to nothing to show for it. And what very little support I've gained in return does not come close to the time and effort I had to spend to get it.

 

What I'm saying is- If I had to bet, I would put everything on actual "Refunded if client doesn't hire" connects refunds happening very rarely, if ever.

Optimistically, there may be some small ancillary FL benefits of this beta-testing project but I wouldn't bank on it.

 

Work smart, work safe!

 

And thanks again,

wb


Candice W wrote:
OMG!!!!!

So today, I saw my first upwork post with connects refunded if no one was hired....

So maybe it wasn't such a crazy idea.

Not that I thought it was crazy. I knew it was actually quite good. Probably because development and implementation of ideas like that are kinda sorta what I do for a living at my full time gig.... ๐Ÿ˜‚

8 know what a bad system looks like. And I finally found the thread and found that others do as well. This was not a new complaint and upwork responded in a way that shows respect and concern for the freelancers. Take a hint.

Now obviously, you can choose to maintain your position regarding "business model" or "moving forward" and refuse the returned connects.

But if you do decide to accept the returned connects, you can thank all the people who said the system was not balanced.

You're welcome.

Yes, this is a new thing they are BETA testing, and it's a great idea. Unlike what many others suggested, Upwork's intent was never to make freelancers "pay to play." They made it pretty clear when they introduced the paid connects system that the intent was to create a better pool of qualified freelancers for clients posted jobs. Anyway, I hope this new system of refunding connects when nobody is hired sticks. 

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