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Krishna's avatar
Krishna W Community Member

Need Help from Upwork

I recently started Working on Upwork as CAD 3D-designer. 
One of my client post a job and invite me discussion, i started discussion with him.
I thought his requirements are not clear to him, So I prepared a draft including text and hand drawing to explained him my understanding reagarding requirements.
- When he made ok flag to my understanding to design a single enclosure for his PCB circuit. I request him to create Contract but he demands me to show my work before Contract.

-When I deny to work he gave me feedback on chat that I am not professional. I leave the discussion with him.
- But after 1 day he again come to me and offer me project.
- Project was cost of 150$ on which we both agree and he created milestne of 149$.

- When I accepting project I clearly mention that What are deliverables. He accepting by writing "Ok, Nice" after accept offer.( I have a proof)
- In middle of I shared Design with him containing 4 PCBS in a single enclosure. He again say "Look's Good" and advice me some changes which I need to cahnge in next day.
- When I completed project and Shared him source file, he suddenly changed his requirement and demanding things which are not included in offer. 

- He suddenly end the contract and demanding me to refund is escrow amount.
When I humbly ask him, if you required to changes I will do. He asking me design 3 enclosure instead of 1enclosure on which project offer is created. 

As budget was very small and as a freelancer we pay upwork 20% fee so I request to upwork team to help me. I have all evidance along with me. and attached here also. 

Please Provide me Suggestion How clould I get my effort payment from client on disputed milestone. ( I attached Image of my offering and Deliverables details here with.)

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

Krishna:

 

The fee you would pay in order to go to ARBITRATION would be:

 

$291 American dollars.

 

(Not $291 rupees).

 

If YOU PAY THE FEE, and the client does not pay the fee, then you will receive the fee back, AND you will receive all money in escrow.

 

If the client pays the fee AND you pay the fee, then both you and the client pay $291 American dollars, and you never get that money back.

 

An independent arbitrator will consider your case and will decide who gets the escrow money. Maybe you get all the money. Maybe you get none of the money. Maybe you each get a portion.

 

Let's be VERY CLEAR about this:

 

The budget DOES NOT MATTER.

 

The money in escrow is what matters.

 

If the money in escrow was $29, then that is how much money you will keep if you fight this.

 

That is also how much money the client will gain if he fights this.

 

If the budget was $149, and $29 was in escrow, then there is no way for you to get $120, unless the client decides to be nice and send you that amount. The client is disputing so he can get $29 back.

 

If the amount of money in escrow is $120, then that is how much you can gain... I don't know the details of your situation. But those are the basic concepts of how this works.

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7 REPLIES 7
Aleksandar's avatar
Aleksandar D Community Manager

Hi Krishna,

 

Thanks for reaching out to us. I'm sorry for the bad experience you had with the Client. I see that you recently opened a dispute ticket. Kindly, allow time for our team to carefully review the case and try to assist further with the dispute. In the meanwhile, you may want to check out this thread to learn more about disputes.

 

Thank you.

~ Aleksandar
Upwork
Krishna's avatar
Krishna W Community Member

Hello Aleksandar,


Thanks for sharing Helping thread, But think Practically, Budget of Project is $149 in which paid $29 at the time of ending contract and demanding refunds. 

Now getting my effort money of $120 I need to Pay a non-Refundable amount of $281. While I paying 20% of project cost to upwork I feel that is the cost for our protection. But Now I relise that it is not.
Is it fair?. How freelancer (worked on small project) get justic?

Think and let me know your Oppionin?

Kathy's avatar
Kathy T Community Member

Krishna - When a client asks for a refund and you know without a doubt that you provided the requirements of the job/milestone and your work was of quality standards, and completed fully, then you need to start a dispute for the money in escrow. 

 

If you did quality work, do NOT issue a refund. You are fairly new and clients are doing this (asking for a refund after receiving work) with new freelancers. You will just reinforce the concept that the client can get away with this. The client will get all the work for free, and You will come out with a job with no money paid and a job with no money paid will effect your JSS even more then it already is. 

 

When you do that, an Upwork mediator will suggest that you try to come to some sort of agreement concerning payment. It may sound like the mediator is telling you to refund but that is only a suggestion. Whatever the mediator is saying is NOT binding. If no agreement can be made then the next step is arbitration.

 

For arbitration you will need to pay a fee of $291 and the client will also need to pay that same fee. Here's what will happen, and whatever decision is made by the arbitrator, that decision IS binding. 

 

  • both client and you pay fee. That $291 fee will not be returned no matter what binding decision is made.
  • You pay the fee, the client does not, you will automatically get the fee back plus all funds in escrow.
  • Client pays the fee, you do not,  then client automatically gets the fee back and all funds in escrow are returned to client. You will not get the fee back.

Will the client risk losing $291 even if it's determined he should be refunded the money in escrow.

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

Krishna:

You unfortunately accepted a job with a person who is a bad client, and a bad man.

 

Upwork has specific rules and procedures that it has to use. Upwork mediation does not decide between who his "right" and who is "wrong."

 

So if you point out that things may be "unfair" due to the cost of arbitration compared to the amount of money a contract was for... You may be absolutely right.

 

Unfortunately, Upwork also does not intercede to make things "fair" for you.

 

Sorry.

Krishna's avatar
Krishna W Community Member

Thanks Kathy, for providing presious information to me. 

But still I want to confirm you If I will pay Attribution money, and client didn't Do I get full amount of $291 + Escrow milestone.

because I were not found this line on Upwork attribution guideline. Please let me know so I go with Attribution fee of rupees $291 + $120 Escrow Milestone.

Preston's avatar
Preston H Community Member

Krishna:

 

The fee you would pay in order to go to ARBITRATION would be:

 

$291 American dollars.

 

(Not $291 rupees).

 

If YOU PAY THE FEE, and the client does not pay the fee, then you will receive the fee back, AND you will receive all money in escrow.

 

If the client pays the fee AND you pay the fee, then both you and the client pay $291 American dollars, and you never get that money back.

 

An independent arbitrator will consider your case and will decide who gets the escrow money. Maybe you get all the money. Maybe you get none of the money. Maybe you each get a portion.

 

Let's be VERY CLEAR about this:

 

The budget DOES NOT MATTER.

 

The money in escrow is what matters.

 

If the money in escrow was $29, then that is how much money you will keep if you fight this.

 

That is also how much money the client will gain if he fights this.

 

If the budget was $149, and $29 was in escrow, then there is no way for you to get $120, unless the client decides to be nice and send you that amount. The client is disputing so he can get $29 back.

 

If the amount of money in escrow is $120, then that is how much you can gain... I don't know the details of your situation. But those are the basic concepts of how this works.

Kathy's avatar
Kathy T Community Member


Krishna W wrote:

Thanks Kathy, for providing presious information to me. 

But still I want to confirm you If I will pay Attribution money, and client didn't Do I get full amount of $291 + Escrow milestone.

because I were not found this line on Upwork attribution guideline. Please let me know so I go with Attribution fee of rupees $291 + $120 Escrow Milestone.


If you pay the fee and the client doesn't pay the fee you will get the fee back plus whatever IS IN ESCROW. You can only get back what was deposited into escrow not the full amount of the job that you should have been paid. That is why I always say, make sure the FULL amount of the job or for each milestone as they come up is deposited into escrow BEFORE you start work. 

 

Also, the arbitration fee is in U.S. dollars. so if you decide to go through with it, you'll have to figure how how rupees are converted into U.S. dollars

 

Also, remember too, that if you decide to refund the money that's in escrow that will count as a job with no money earned and a job with no money earned will have an affect on your JSS