Need feed-back on removing client feed-back

[sourceprouk]

Hi,

I have a decision to make. I need feed-back from very experienced providers and experts.

In the past months, I have had 2 reviews of 3.3 stars and no written review. I am a top rated designer and it looks like it has not affected my 100% job success rate (the latest review is new).
I currently have one 'life' to ask Upwork to remove one of those feed-backs (obviously the most recent one).

Is it worth doing it now or keep my 'life' in case I come across another rogue client in the next 10 jobs or 3 months?

Profile:

https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/federicod

What does the feed-back history look like, supposing you are a buyer?
Thanks

[roberty1y]

Hard question to answer. It might be better to save your feedback removal option for feedback that lowers your JSS. Then again, maybe you've racked up enough successful outcomes to make one bad one irrelevant, and in that case you might as well use your option of removal now. 

[petra_r]

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Federico D wrote:

I am a top rated designer and it looks like it has not affected my 100% job success rate (the latest review is new).

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The latest 3.3 star rating is not yet calculated into your JSS yet, because it happened after the last update on the 22nd of August.

I would wait and see what damage it does to your JSS on Sunday (evening JSS) before making any decisions

I wouldn't worry about the other 3.3, that's some way down the page. It clearly didn't affect your JSS, so the client must be excluded. Do NOT waste your perk on that.

Also, if you remove the feedback it gets replaced by "This feedback has been removed" which can frankly look worse than just stars with no words.

[a_lipsey]

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Petra R wrote:

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Federico D wrote:

I am a top rated designer and it looks like it has not affected my 100% job success rate (the latest review is new).

---

The latest 3.3 star rating is not yet calculated into your JSS yet, because it happened after the last update on the 22nd of August.

I would wait and see what damage it does to your JSS on Sunday (evening JSS) before making any decisions

I wouldn't worry about the other 3.3, that's some way down the page. It clearly didn't affect your JSS, so the client must be excluded. Do NOT waste your perk on that.

Also, if you remove the feedback it gets replaced by "This feedback has been removed" which can frankly look worse than just stars with no words.

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Just voting that I agree with Petra that you should wait and see. 

And I wouldn't remove it unless it drops you below 90% and impacts your TR status. 

[sourceprouk]

As is usually the case, both clients who gave me the 3.3 star rating spent the time haggling over my fees. These are the ones who will always believe that they paid too much for the job.
Today, I turn down they job when I see the clent's haggling before they give me the job but there are also cases when they do it after I have been given the contract and I accepted it. That puts you in a difficult situaton.

They tell you things like: "buit your estimate was lower". And I reply: "that is why I told you it was only an estimate; no way I can foresee all the circusmtance on a long job. If you want a fixed price contract, then I will estimate a higher price as I have to add a contingency for unexpected things".

[petra_r]

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Federico D wrote:

They tell you things like: "buit your estimate was lower".

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That is why I always calculate my estimates very generously, 

I always way overestimate, that way I always come in below budget and well before the deadline. That's probably why I never had that situation.

If you now had this issue twice in just a few weeks, it is possible that you are underestimating how long something will take and then the client is upset.

[sourceprouk]

No, an estimate is a realistic calculation of what it can cost, knowing what you know. A quote is the one that has to include the 'generous' contingency.

Like I said, it is the haggling that causes it. The estimate plays a part only sometimes. The haggling can be about your hourly rate, too, as was the case with the latest one.

[petra_r]

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Federico D wrote:

No, an estimate is a realistic calculation of what it can cost, knowing what you know. A quote is the one that has to include the 'generous' contingency..

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Again: If that has happened twice in a few weeks, clients are clearly unhappy with "estimate v. reality" so that is for you to work on.

There is likely a reason why I (who always overestimates hours and then comes in on less hours) have not had that issue even once in over 300 contracts.

[sourceprouk]

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Petra R wrote:

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Federico D wrote:

No, an estimate is a realistic calculation of what it can cost, knowing what you know. A quote is the one that has to include the 'generous' contingency..

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Again: If that has happened twice in a few weeks, clients are clearly unhappy with "estimate v. reality" so that is for you to work on.

There is likely a reason why I (who always overestimates hours and then comes in on less hours) have not had that issue even once in over 300 contracts.

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I have already said that, of those projects, boh clients became problematic when they began to haggle, one was a problem because of the estimate too. So that is a good reflection of the problem clients in this area 50/50.
What you say may apply to your kind of job, e.g. estimating the price for a document with 100 pages, then you can calculate the cost per 1000 words or however it is done.
But you do not understand my field, Product Design. The larger the job, the more open ended it is. When clients ask for an estimate, I give my best estimate and, on the larger ones, I make it clear that many things can happen, e.g. having to make 5 prototypes in succession, instead of one.

In my view, if you have never had a complaint about the cost, in 300 jobs, you are under-charging.

[petra_r]

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Federico D wrote:

In my view, if you have never had a complaint about the cost, in 300 jobs, you are under-charging.

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No, I simply don't accept clients who try to haggle or dislike the cost.

[sourceprouk]

You usually bring up your 300 contracts 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**. So you cannot compare an estimate for a $3000-$5000 design job with a small one in translation.

[petra_r]

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Federico D wrote:

You usually bring up your 300 contracts 

I checked you profile, you have very small contracts, down to $5 .

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My average contract value is not much short of $2000 - DESPITE the small ones...  those $5 to $10 are all the same client. My ongoing contracts have the large contracts in them.

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Federico D wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

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**Edited for Community Guidelines**

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Federico D wrote:

The average value of my contracts is $3000.00 (the equivalent of 600 of your jobs at $). 

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Outright lie.

And anyway, you asked for advice. Take it or leave it. There is no need to attack me and maliciously  lie about my history.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[NikolaS]

Hi All,

A few posts have been edited from this thread for Community Guidelines. We encourage our Community members to be professional and respectful to one another when posting here. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and avoid making personal attacks.

[tlbp]

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Federico D wrote:

No, an estimate is a realistic calculation of what it can cost, knowing what you know. A quote is the one that has to include the 'generous' contingency.

Like I said, it is the haggling that causes it. The estimate plays a part only sometimes. The haggling can be about your hourly rate, too, as was the case with the latest one.

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I agree with Petra. An estimate should never reflect the low end of you cost spectrum. Once you give clients a number, that's all they are going to remembber at billing time. Specifics supercede generalities in the human mind. 

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter what any of us think. What matters is how clients behave because they are the ones who pay the bill, leave a review and can dispute the fee. So, I would make future decisions based on what you know of client behaviors. IOW, don't expect people to change. 

[sourceprouk]

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Tonya P wrote:

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Federico D wrote:

No, an estimate is a realistic calculation of what it can cost, knowing what you know. A quote is the one that has to include the 'generous' contingency.

Like I said, it is the haggling that causes it. The estimate plays a part only sometimes. The haggling can be about your hourly rate, too, as was the case with the latest one.

---

I agree with Petra. An estimate should never reflect the low end of you cost spectrum. Once you give clients a number, that's all they are going to remembber at billing time. Specifics supercede generalities in the human mind. 

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter what any of us think. What matters is how clients behave because they are the ones who pay the bill, leave a review and can dispute the fee. So, I would make future decisions based on what you know of client behaviors. IOW, don't expect people to change. 

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No, nobody said that an estimate is the lower end of the spectrum; it is, if anything, an average cost for a project of that kind. This is normally for an hourly rate. I repeat, you add a contingency in a quote (for a fixed price project).
The client's behaviour is not related to whether you give a low or high esttimate. It is related to his own attitude. Many clients' behaviour relates to accepting that I was an estimate and thr final cost can be higher or, indeed, lower. And many times you cannot predict the client's behaviour, as you accept their job, when the cost of the project begins to go above your estimate, so they start whingeing about it.

In fact, I warn those who want a 'fixed estimate', but still work on an hourly basis, that if they want a fixed price, then I can offer a fixed price contract with my contingency costs in it. Most stay with the hourly rate.

[tlbp]

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Federico D wrote:

As is usually the case, both clients who gave me the 3.3 star rating spent the time haggling over my fees. These are the ones who will always believe that they paid too much for the job.
Today, I turn down they job when I see the clent's haggling before they give me the job but there are also cases when they do it after I have been given the contract and I accepted it. That puts you in a difficult situaton.

They tell you things like: "buit your estimate was lower". And I reply: "that is why I told you it was only an estimate; no way I can foresee all the circusmtance on a long job. If you want a fixed price contract, then I will estimate a higher price as I have to add a contingency for unexpected things".

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I have some clients who ask for a discount (once) because that's an expected part of negotiation in their culture. Those clients are very respectful when I say no. If a client wants to haggle over price after this first exchange, I don't work with them. I have found that even if this latter type of client aagrees to pay your asking price, they will never be happy with the outcome. 

[tlbp]

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Federico D wrote:

Hi,

I have a decision to make. I need feed-back from very experienced providers and experts.

In the past months, I have had 2 reviews of 3.3 stars and no written review. I am a top rated designer and it looks like it has not affected my 100% job success rate (the latest review is new).
I currently have one 'life' to ask Upwork to remove one of those feed-backs (obviously the most recent one).

Is it worth doing it now or keep my 'life' in case I come across another rogue client in the next 10 jobs or 3 months?

Profile:

https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/federicod

What does the feed-back history look like, supposing you are a buyer?
Thanks

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In the past, when my JSS was secure despite a "bad" review, I have left it in place as a signal to prospective clients that I don't tolerate bad behavior. My situation was similar to yours, the client didn't want to pay what my work costs. You could hold off on using the perk until you've had time to assess how it affects your ability to land new gigs.