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emilyholzer
Community Member

Needed algorithm update

I (like many posting on here) have only five-star reviews. However, after one or two jobs my clients usually stop leaving feedback, probably due to redundancy. This has led to a significant drop in my JSS. I have spoken on the phone to customer support, and they suggest waiting out the client to close the job so that they have to leave a review. This 1) delays freelancers in getting paid for their work and 2) will still reflect negatively on the freelancer if the client simply leaves the contract open but inactive, which is happening to me now. Since the freelancers have no control over the actions of the job posters, I don’t understand why their inaction negatively reflects on the freelancers. Per so many of these posts, it is clear that the algorithm calculating Job Success Score and freelancer quality is misleading and inaccurate. Is anyone working to change, update, or correct this? 

19 REPLIES 19
petra_r
Community Member


Emily H wrote:

I (like many posting on here) have only five-star reviews. However, after one or two jobs my clients usually stop leaving feedback, probably due to redundancy. This has led to a significant drop in my JSS.


No. It has not (led to your JSS drop.) Contracts with money paid do not affect your JSS if closed without feedback or open, unless you have a huge number of them.

 


Emily H wrote:

 

 I have spoken on the phone to customer support, and they suggest waiting out the client to close the job so that they have to leave a review. This 1) delays freelancers in getting paid for their work and 2) will still reflect negatively on the freelancer if the client simply leaves the contract open but inactive, which is happening to me now.


1) No it doesn't delay anything at all.

2) No it doesn't. Open but inactive contracts with money paid on them do not hurt your JSS unless you have too many of them.

 


Emily H wrote:

Since the freelancers have no control over the actions of the job posters, I don’t understand why their inaction negatively reflects on the freelancers.


It doesn't.

 


Emily H wrote:

I (like many posting on here) have only five-star reviews.


Public feedback, yes.

Private feedback..... ? (What is your private feedback average? The "Clients who would recommend" metric on your My stats page?)  I would bet it's pretty close to your JSS?

 

Public feedback is frankly near meaningless. Just about everyone has near all 5 stars.

 

 

So I don't have a "huge" number of contracts without feedback, but the woman I spoke with said it was roughly 38% and led me to believe that this was what was causing my JSS drop. This conclusively would mean that the inaction of job posters does indeed reflect negatively on the freelancers. Additionally, since my contracts are made almost entirely of repeat clients, I feel confident that they would not ding me on recommendations. 


Emily wrote:

, I feel confident that they would not ding me on recommendations. 


That's nice... So: Again: What is your private feedback average? (The "Clients who would recommend" metric on your My stats page?)

 

That is the rating left by the clients who did leave feedback and it is not just the "reccommendation" but a set of criteria.

 


the woman I spoke with said it was roughly 38% and led me to believe that this was what was causing my JSS drop

about 38% of the grand total of your contracts don't have feedback (yet.) That is true. But of those, 2 are still active, so don't do any harm at all.

 

If the number of "no feedback" contracts worries you, don't close contracts yourself in future, let your client(s) do it, that way you are guaranteed feedback.

 

Is this to suggest that these clients would consistently request work from me but also suggest that my work is not of a quality to be recommended? However, they are not recommending me in the sense that they have stopped leaving reviews, which again would be a reflection of the inaction of a job poster negatively reflecting on a freelancer. The fact that this is to any extent embedded in the JSS algorithm alone presents a problem that takes agency and consideration away from freelancers.

 

I am simply communicating to this forum what the Upwork Support confirmed of my own knowledge of the situation. I don't find this helpful, especially as many of the points I am making here are being ignored. 


Emily H wrote:

However, they are not recommending me in the sense that they have stopped leaving reviews, which again would be a reflection of the inaction of a job poster negatively reflecting on a freelancer


Private feedback only includes the actual rating of those clients who did leave feedback. It does not include those who left no feedback.

 

Again: What is your private feedback average? Roughly in line with your JSS or not?

In fact, my recommended stat was 100% recommended when my JSS lowered. I brought this to the attention of customer support, who informed me that it was the lack of feedback that brought on the lowering of my JSS. As you can imagine, this is why I am frustrated by the fact that the inaction of job posters negatively reflects on freelancers. Per my initial question, is this something Upwork is amending? 


Emily H wrote:

In fact, my recommended stat was 100% recommended when my JSS lowered.


That is because that metric only updates every x number of contracts. (no idea what the exact number is) to avoid people guessing which contract had the poor private feedback.

 

So, in other words: Your private feedback is roughly in line with your JSS. (considering how determined you are to avoid the question)

 


Emily H wrote:

I am frustrated by the fact that the inaction of job posters negatively reflects on freelancers.


It doesn't, unless there is an excessive number.

Your JSS and your private feedback rating are more or less in line. That alone should give you a super strong hint that inaction is not what has lowered your JSS.

 

I truly do not understand what I am not making clear? Here I have attached my initial inquiry to Customer Support (since you are clearly not accepting what I am saying now) and the response I received verifying that it is, in fact, the client inaction causing my lower JSS. With a lower JSS, it is hard to find more work to offset the low response rate from my repeat clients. Again, this is why I am frustrated that the inaction of the job posters reflects negatively on the freelancers and that the algorithm does not consider the fact that repeat clients are less likely to continue to leave feedback week after week. Speaking of being determined to avoid questions, I am reaching out to the forum to see if this is something that is being considered/amended/updated?

 


Again. The reason why your JSS dropped before your Clients who would recommend percentage did is because it is NOT updated after every contract. So whatever contract(s) initially made your JSS plummet did not immediately make the metric on your My Stats page drop. That is why it stayed (originally) at 100% until the next time it was recalculated.

 

If your private feedback percentage is the same or lower than your JSS, that alone proves to you where the reason for your JSS lies, and that it isn't contracts without feedback. With a private feedback percentage in the 80s clients have marked you down in private feedback. There is no talking around that.

 

If a bucket of green paint falls over and makes a green stain, there is no point claiming that a closed bucket of red paint on a nearby table made the stain.

 


Emily H wrote:

Speaking of being determined to avoid questions, I am reaching out to the forum to see if this is something that is being considered/amended/updated?


They are constantly refining it, it is a lot less severe than it was originally.

 

Emily,

If your looking for anything productive from Petra. I wouldnt count on it. She likes to talk over real concerns and blame the freelancer. When logically it makes no sense.


Jonathan R wrote:
Emily,

If your looking for anything productive from Petra. I wouldnt count on it. She likes to talk over real concerns and blame the freelancer. When logically it makes no sense.

I am not blaming anybody. I am pointing out simple, straightforward, logical correlations of numbers.

 

Emily's private feedback and her JSS are roughly in line.  So if "no feedback" contracts were so bad, her JSS would be even lower.

 

I am truly not here with any hard feelings, just trying to find a solution to my problem. My message was censored, but I received and posted printed confirmation from CS that it was my lack of client feedback that was lowering my job score. This is something that is written off as rare, which is why I was not more insistent with my clients or worried about this lack of feedback. Now, my score is lower and I am having a harder time getting new jobs to offset this fact. I have even changed my settings to allow my clients to submit feedback later (they are truly uninterested). In this case, it is the job poster inaction (as confirmed by Upwork) that is causing my lower score, and I am having a difficult time understanding that. If we don't have any control over what the clients do, it does not make sense that it reflects on us. I am hoping that this algorithm will update to consider soon or that Upwork could consider on a case by case basis. 


Emily H wrote:

I am truly not here with any hard feelings, just trying to find a solution to my problem. My message was censored, but I received and posted printed confirmation from CS that it was my lack of client feedback that was lowering my job score.


Hi Emily. I don't doubt that this is what you were told. But CS personnel are not a reliable source of information about how JSS works.

 

I for one would be a little surprised if 38% of jobs closed without feedback was sufficient to reduce your JSS, though I wouldn't rule it out. The truth is we just don't know. And I'm pretty sure that Upwork moderators in this forum (who I trust more than CS) will not confirm it, as this is the sort of information about the JSS algorithm that Upwork likes to keep secret.


Emily H wrote:

I am truly not here with any hard feelings, just trying to find a solution to my problem. My message was censored, but I received and posted printed confirmation from CS that it was my lack of client feedback that was lowering my job score. This is something that is written off as rare, which is why I was not more insistent with my clients or worried about this lack of feedback. Now, my score is lower and I am having a harder time getting new jobs to offset this fact. I have even changed my settings to allow my clients to submit feedback later (they are truly uninterested). In this case, it is the job poster inaction (as confirmed by Upwork) that is causing my lower score, and I am having a difficult time understanding that. If we don't have any control over what the clients do, it does not make sense that it reflects on us. I am hoping that this algorithm will update to consider soon or that Upwork could consider on a case by case basis. 


The JSS is a tool for clients, not for FLs. We should assume UW will not be making any substantial modifications to it until and unless they identify a change that will positively affect their bottom line. Any such change could just as easily make our lives more difficult, instead of less. In the meantime, the JSS is ours to live with or not, each of us is free to choose.

 

We can never know precisely how the JSS is calculated but we can understand certain things about it that enable us to manage it. I've been on the platform for about two and a half years, and regularly paying attention to this forum for about two years. The single best source of insight about the JSS and how to manage it effectively is Petra. She is attentive, analytical, seems to have a photographic memory, and is incredily generous with her time in trying to help others understand the system and their particular situations. There are quite a few others here who also are experienced, wise, and happy to help anyone who is looking to understand (and not just validate their own claims of being victimized--this is not directed at you, btw). As near as I can tell, our least reliable source of information about how JSS works is any CS rep. They honestly don't know, and they also seem to lack real experience freelancing themselves. That's not to say they can't help with myriad other questions and issues, but do not rely on them for JSS guidance.

 

I know it's disappointing and frustrating to have your score dip below 90% when you've been given to understand (based on return business and public fb) that your clients are happy. The JSS is actually doing you a favor, tipping you off that someone (or someones) had a less than perfect experience. You can't know with certainty which project(s) reflected it, but you do have the opportunity to review each one and look for clues, any hiccups that seemed minor at the time but may have privately rankled with the client. Were you a little bit late on a target date? Any crossed wires at any time, even if the client said "no worries"? 

 

The JSS can be a sharp blade but it has a handle. Use it!

I found no difference in Preston H and Petra !!! Some times I thinks they have the same agenda... You are right they never thinks that at some points the algorithm is also not at its 100%.nO0FFENCE

"One thing I know, that I know nothing. This is the source of my wisdom"


Jonathan R wrote:
Emily,

If your looking for anything productive from Petra. I wouldnt count on it. She likes to talk over real concerns and blame the freelancer. When logically it makes no sense.

lol are you kidding? She's the most accurate person here and people who don't like her advice are the ones just fishing for an answer they want, not the real answer. You can tell she's dead-on correct here because the OP is avoiding her very very straightforward question, so be gone with this nonsense.


Emily H wrote:

...Here I have attached my initial inquiry to Customer Support (since you are clearly not accepting what I am saying now) and the response I received verifying that it is, in fact, the client inaction causing my lower JSS.

 

...Speaking of being determined to avoid questions, I am reaching out to the forum to see if this is something that is being considered/amended/updated?


Ah. You believe CS knows more about how that platform works than Petra. Information from CS has been repeatedly documented as incorrect. Information from Petra is virtually always reliable, and when she is in error she acknowledges it.

 

You are "reaching out to the forum," which is a community of users, not an official communication channel with Upwork. Yet you are determined to dismiss and dispute its most knowledgeable member.

It's slightly more complex than that. Upwork's moderators sometimes step in to clean up the messes left by CS, and/or to escalate follow up on particular problems. When it comes to the JSS or other policy issues, all you can expect is the occasional "Thank you for your feedback. We will share it with the team"—which is a polite form for "Don't hold your breath."


Petra R wrote:

Emily wrote:

, I feel confident that they would not ding me on recommendations. 


That's nice... So: Again: What is your private feedback average? (The "Clients who would recommend" metric on your My stats page?)


Petra, do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric is an average? Taken at face value it appears to be a percentage (i.e. a proportion), not an average.

 

"That is the rating left by the clients who did leave feedback and it is not just the "reccommendation" but a set of criteria."

 

The JSS takes into account other criteria. But do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric tales into account other criteria? Again, taking its name at face value suggests otherwise.


Richard W wrote:

Petra, do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric is an average? Taken at face value it appears to be a percentage (i.e. a proportion), not an average.



It's the average percentage proportion thingie mix 🙂 - Sorry, "average" was probably poorly worded. It is the "private feedback soup" If someone has 86 % there it does not mean that 8,6 out of 10 clients gave a 10 and 1.4 gave a 1. 

 


Richard W wrote:

The JSS takes into account other criteria. But do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric tales into account other criteria? Again, taking its name at face value suggests otherwise.


There are more private feedback components than just the "Recommend" one... Yes, I have reason to believe / evidence that  it cooks together  private feedback, not just the one question (recommend.)

 

Yes the JSS takes into account other factors - (long term clients good, nothing paid contracts without feedback bad and so on) but private feedback is the strongest driver.

 

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