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Needed algorithm update

jonathan5505
Ace Contributor
Jonathan R Member Since: Mar 6, 2018
11 of 20
Emily,

If your looking for anything productive from Petra. I wouldnt count on it. She likes to talk over real concerns and blame the freelancer. When logically it makes no sense.
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
12 of 20

Jonathan R wrote:
Emily,

If your looking for anything productive from Petra. I wouldnt count on it. She likes to talk over real concerns and blame the freelancer. When logically it makes no sense.

I am not blaming anybody. I am pointing out simple, straightforward, logical correlations of numbers.

 

Emily's private feedback and her JSS are roughly in line.  So if "no feedback" contracts were so bad, her JSS would be even lower.

 

emilyholzer
Active Member
Emily H Member Since: Mar 17, 2019
13 of 20

I am truly not here with any hard feelings, just trying to find a solution to my problem. My message was censored, but I received and posted printed confirmation from CS that it was my lack of client feedback that was lowering my job score. This is something that is written off as rare, which is why I was not more insistent with my clients or worried about this lack of feedback. Now, my score is lower and I am having a harder time getting new jobs to offset this fact. I have even changed my settings to allow my clients to submit feedback later (they are truly uninterested). In this case, it is the job poster inaction (as confirmed by Upwork) that is causing my lower score, and I am having a difficult time understanding that. If we don't have any control over what the clients do, it does not make sense that it reflects on us. I am hoping that this algorithm will update to consider soon or that Upwork could consider on a case by case basis. 

richard_wein
Community Guru
Richard W Member Since: Jun 22, 2017
14 of 20

Emily H wrote:

I am truly not here with any hard feelings, just trying to find a solution to my problem. My message was censored, but I received and posted printed confirmation from CS that it was my lack of client feedback that was lowering my job score.


Hi Emily. I don't doubt that this is what you were told. But CS personnel are not a reliable source of information about how JSS works.

 

I for one would be a little surprised if 38% of jobs closed without feedback was sufficient to reduce your JSS, though I wouldn't rule it out. The truth is we just don't know. And I'm pretty sure that Upwork moderators in this forum (who I trust more than CS) will not confirm it, as this is the sort of information about the JSS algorithm that Upwork likes to keep secret.

gilbert-phyllis
Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
15 of 20

Emily H wrote:

I am truly not here with any hard feelings, just trying to find a solution to my problem. My message was censored, but I received and posted printed confirmation from CS that it was my lack of client feedback that was lowering my job score. This is something that is written off as rare, which is why I was not more insistent with my clients or worried about this lack of feedback. Now, my score is lower and I am having a harder time getting new jobs to offset this fact. I have even changed my settings to allow my clients to submit feedback later (they are truly uninterested). In this case, it is the job poster inaction (as confirmed by Upwork) that is causing my lower score, and I am having a difficult time understanding that. If we don't have any control over what the clients do, it does not make sense that it reflects on us. I am hoping that this algorithm will update to consider soon or that Upwork could consider on a case by case basis. 


The JSS is a tool for clients, not for FLs. We should assume UW will not be making any substantial modifications to it until and unless they identify a change that will positively affect their bottom line. Any such change could just as easily make our lives more difficult, instead of less. In the meantime, the JSS is ours to live with or not, each of us is free to choose.

 

We can never know precisely how the JSS is calculated but we can understand certain things about it that enable us to manage it. I've been on the platform for about two and a half years, and regularly paying attention to this forum for about two years. The single best source of insight about the JSS and how to manage it effectively is Petra. She is attentive, analytical, seems to have a photographic memory, and is incredily generous with her time in trying to help others understand the system and their particular situations. There are quite a few others here who also are experienced, wise, and happy to help anyone who is looking to understand (and not just validate their own claims of being victimized--this is not directed at you, btw). As near as I can tell, our least reliable source of information about how JSS works is any CS rep. They honestly don't know, and they also seem to lack real experience freelancing themselves. That's not to say they can't help with myriad other questions and issues, but do not rely on them for JSS guidance.

 

I know it's disappointing and frustrating to have your score dip below 90% when you've been given to understand (based on return business and public fb) that your clients are happy. The JSS is actually doing you a favor, tipping you off that someone (or someones) had a less than perfect experience. You can't know with certainty which project(s) reflected it, but you do have the opportunity to review each one and look for clues, any hiccups that seemed minor at the time but may have privately rankled with the client. Were you a little bit late on a target date? Any crossed wires at any time, even if the client said "no worries"? 

 

The JSS can be a sharp blade but it has a handle. Use it!

muhmasood
Community Guru
Mr M Member Since: Apr 27, 2013
16 of 20

I found no difference in Preston H and Petra !!! Some times I thinks they have the same agenda... You are right they never thinks that at some points the algorithm is also not at its 100%.nO0FFENCE

"One thing I know, that I know nothing. This is the source of my wisdom"
lysis10
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
17 of 20

Jonathan R wrote:
Emily,

If your looking for anything productive from Petra. I wouldnt count on it. She likes to talk over real concerns and blame the freelancer. When logically it makes no sense.

lol are you kidding? She's the most accurate person here and people who don't like her advice are the ones just fishing for an answer they want, not the real answer. You can tell she's dead-on correct here because the OP is avoiding her very very straightforward question, so be gone with this nonsense.

researchediting
Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
18 of 20

Emily H wrote:

...Here I have attached my initial inquiry to Customer Support (since you are clearly not accepting what I am saying now) and the response I received verifying that it is, in fact, the client inaction causing my lower JSS.

 

...Speaking of being determined to avoid questions, I am reaching out to the forum to see if this is something that is being considered/amended/updated?


Ah. You believe CS knows more about how that platform works than Petra. Information from CS has been repeatedly documented as incorrect. Information from Petra is virtually always reliable, and when she is in error she acknowledges it.

 

You are "reaching out to the forum," which is a community of users, not an official communication channel with Upwork. Yet you are determined to dismiss and dispute its most knowledgeable member.

It's slightly more complex than that. Upwork's moderators sometimes step in to clean up the messes left by CS, and/or to escalate follow up on particular problems. When it comes to the JSS or other policy issues, all you can expect is the occasional "Thank you for your feedback. We will share it with the team"—which is a polite form for "Don't hold your breath."

richard_wein
Community Guru
Richard W Member Since: Jun 22, 2017
19 of 20

Petra R wrote:

Emily wrote:

, I feel confident that they would not ding me on recommendations. 


That's nice... So: Again: What is your private feedback average? (The "Clients who would recommend" metric on your My stats page?)


Petra, do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric is an average? Taken at face value it appears to be a percentage (i.e. a proportion), not an average.

 

"That is the rating left by the clients who did leave feedback and it is not just the "reccommendation" but a set of criteria."

 

The JSS takes into account other criteria. But do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric tales into account other criteria? Again, taking its name at face value suggests otherwise.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
20 of 20

Richard W wrote:

Petra, do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric is an average? Taken at face value it appears to be a percentage (i.e. a proportion), not an average.



It's the average percentage proportion thingie mix Smiley Happy - Sorry, "average" was probably poorly worded. It is the "private feedback soup" If someone has 86 % there it does not mean that 8,6 out of 10 clients gave a 10 and 1.4 gave a 1. 

 


Richard W wrote:

The JSS takes into account other criteria. But do you have any reason to think that the "Clients who would recommend you" metric tales into account other criteria? Again, taking its name at face value suggests otherwise.


There are more private feedback components than just the "Recommend" one... Yes, I have reason to believe / evidence that  it cooks together  private feedback, not just the one question (recommend.)

 

Yes the JSS takes into account other factors - (long term clients good, nothing paid contracts without feedback bad and so on) but private feedback is the strongest driver.

 

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