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New User. Interview.Recommending a friend.

tina7777
Active Member
Tatiana N Member Since: Aug 10, 2019
1 of 23

Hello to everyone.

I am very new on UpWork and I am confused about how it does work.

If someone response to my  proposal, do I have a chance to descuss the project in details and have an interview? 

The price of proposal is already fixed, however the details are usually not desclosed. I am looking for bookkeeping or accounting jobs. Therefore, it is vital to know the details.

Can I recommend some one for  the job/project if I feel the other professional be a better fit?

Should this person be a UpWork user, or you can send the person's information directly to a client?

 

 

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
2 of 23

re: "If someone response to my proposal, do I have a chance to discuss the project in details and have an interview?"

 

Yes.

You can take as long as you need during the "interview" phase. This does not obligate you to do anything.

 

re: "The price of proposal is already fixed, however the details are usually not disclosed."

 

The price in the proposal is simply a placeholder, an opportunity to have a discussion. It is not a final price. The client and freelancer can come to an agreement about a final price.

 

re: "I am looking for bookkeeping or accounting jobs. Therefore, it is vital to know the details."

 

Freelancers may bid on any jobs that they want to bit on. If a freelancer wants to start a conversation about a project, she may bid. If she isn't interested, she doesn't need to bid.

 

Freelancers can not ask questions before they bid. They can bid, and then if the client replies, they can ask questions. Freelancers can also send their questions IN THE BID itself.

 

re: "Can I recommend some one for the job/project if I feel the other professional be a better fit?"

 

Of course you may do that.

 

re: "Should this person be a Upwork user, or you can send the person's information directly to a client?"

There is no rule that prevents Upwork users from recommending non-Upwork freelancers to clients.

 

There is no way to do that prior to submitting a bid, however.

gilbert-phyllis
Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
3 of 23

Preston H wrote:

re: "If someone response to my proposal, do I have a chance to discuss the project in details and have an interview?"

 

Yes.

You can take as long as you need during the "interview" phase. This does not obligate you to do anything.

 

re: "The price of proposal is already fixed, however the details are usually not disclosed."

 

The price in the proposal is simply a placeholder, an opportunity to have a discussion. It is not a final price. The client and freelancer can come to an agreement about a final price.

 

re: "I am looking for bookkeeping or accounting jobs. Therefore, it is vital to know the details."

 

Freelancers may bid on any jobs that they want to bit on. If a freelancer wants to start a conversation about a project, she may bid. If she isn't interested, she doesn't need to bid.

 

Freelancers can not ask questions before they bid. They can bid, and then if the client replies, they can ask questions. Freelancers can also send their questions IN THE BID itself.

 

re: "Can I recommend some one for the job/project if I feel the other professional be a better fit?"

 

Of course you may do that.

 

re: "Should this person be a Upwork user, or you can send the person's information directly to a client?"

There is no rule that prevents Upwork users from recommending non-Upwork freelancers to clients.

 

There is no way to do that prior to submitting a bid, however.


Preston, are you 100% sure about this? I think there must be a rule, otherwise, what's to stop someone from referring a client to their friend or relative or even their own alter ego? 

 

Mods, please weigh in!

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 23

Preston H wrote:

 

There is no rule that prevents Upwork users from recommending non-Upwork freelancers to clients.


Again, giving partial information that can lead to the OP getting into deep trouble.

 

If she recommends a non-Upwork freelancer to a client that non-Upwork freelancer would have to become an Upwork freelancer and be hired through Upwork. Otherwise it would indeed be a ToS violation.

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
5 of 23

To be clear:

 

I am saying that the original poster would NOT get into trouble.

 

And that recommending a non-Upwork freelancer to a client is NOT a violation of Upwork ToS.

 

I am saying that an Upwork freelancer may refer Upwork clients to non-Upwork freelancers...

 

And that the clients may hire the non-Upwork freelancers without using Upwork.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
6 of 23

Preston H wrote:

To be clear:

 

I am saying that an Upwork freelancer may refer Upwork clients to non-Upwork freelancers...

 

And that the clients may hire the non-Upwork freelancers without using Upwork.


To "be clear:"

You are dead wrong. PLEASE do not try to get people kicked off Upwork.

 

Circumvention

 

Screenshot_1.png

 

This has been discussed and confirmed by Upwork various times in the past. If an Upwork member refers anyone outside Upwork it still has to go through and paid through Upwork.

colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
7 of 23

Petra R wrote:

Preston H wrote:

To be clear:

 

I am saying that an Upwork freelancer may refer Upwork clients to non-Upwork freelancers...

 

And that the clients may hire the non-Upwork freelancers without using Upwork.


To "be clear:"

You are dead wrong. PLEASE do not try to get people kicked off Upwork.

 

Circumvention

 

Screenshot_1.png

__________________________

 

And continuing on from Petra's post in the same section. Upwork is specific:  "[...] By way of illustration and not in limitation of the foregoing, you agree not to: [...] Refer a User you identified on the Site to a third-party who is not a User of the Site for purposes of making or receiving payments off the Site."


 

So, Tatiana don't do it.

 

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
8 of 23

Nichola L wrote:

And continuing on from Petra's post in the same section. Upwork is specific:  "[...] By way of illustration and not in limitation of the foregoing, you agree not to: [...] Refer a User you identified on the Site to a third-party who is not a User of the Site for purposes of making or receiving payments off the Site."


Thanks Nichola, that was the part I actually meant to post.

It could not be clearer, could it?

 

colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
9 of 23

Crystal clear!! Smiley Happy

prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
10 of 23

It would be ethically wrong and it would be a violation of Upwork's ToS, as quoted above, for an Upwork user to refer a client to another feelancer for the purposes of making or receiving payments off the site.

 

This was not the original poster's purpose. As she stated, she was asking if she could refer a client to somebody else if she was not the best fit for the job:

 

"Can I recommend some one for the job/project if I feel the other professional be a better fit?"

 

Clearly the original poster's purpose had nothing to do with where or how payments are processed.

 

It would be ethically wrong and it would be a violation of Upwork's ToS if an Upwork user was identified by any type of referral, and was paid off of the platform. According to Upwork's ToS, as quoted in the section posted above, an Upwork user identified through the site in any way must keep payments on the Upwork platform for a period of two years. This is part of the Upwork ToS, binding on all site users.

 

This does not apply to freelancers who are not site users.

 

It is neither Upwork's written policy (in their ToS) nor is it their actual practice to try to prevent freelancers from making helpful recommendations to clients regarding other people who clients can work with.

 

Freelancers may refer Upwork clients to Upwork freelancers or non-Upwork freelancers.

 

If a client hires an Upwork freelancer, all payments must go through Upwork. If a client invites a non-Upwork freelancer to become an Upwork freelancer, then all payments must go through Upwork. There is much value to both the client and freelancer in doing so.

 

Upwork does not tell clients that they can not hire non-Upwork freelancers to work on their projects, whether or not those freelancers were referred to them by an Upwork freelancer or somebody else.

 

Upwork does not in practice try to require non-Upwork users to abide by its non-circumvention clauses, nor does it make any suggestion in its ToS that these clauses apply to non-Upwork users.

 

Some things in Upwork's ToS may seem like legalese or boilerplate and may seem somewhat tangential to actual Upwork practice and intent. But in this case, I see no difference between Upwork's written ToS, its intended business practices, and how it actually operates.

 

If it makes it easier to understand, simply apply this to a real world situation: Suppose a freelancer refers a client to a local surgeon whose specialty is removing difficult-to-reach brain tumors. The surgeon has admitting privileges at a local hospital with the requisite equipment. This surgeon genuinely was a better person to serve a client's needs than a freelancer referring the client to him. The freelancer is a writer - not a surgeon. The surgeon - a sole practitioner ("freelancer") is not an Upwork user. It is not Upwork's intent that the client either (a) NOT take advantage of that surgeon's services; or (b) pay the surgeon through Upwork. A comparable situation is one in which a freelancer refers a client to another writer - who is NOT an Upwork user - because that writer has great experience in writing descriptions of shoes. That referred-to writer is not an Upwork user, and Upwork's ToS do not apply to her. The Upwork freelancer may make such a referral - the purpose of which was NOT to avoid payment through the platform - and the client may hire the freelancer, and that writer may work for the client, all without violating Upwork ToS. And none of this violates how Upwork intends its platform to be used.

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