🐈
» Forums » Freelancers » New client messaging without inviting?
Page options
a_lipsey
Community Member

New client messaging without inviting?

Hi all,

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this feature, but I just had someone message me, someone I've never done business with so this would be a prospective new client, and they have not created any job post, they are reaching out to discuss my availability and expertise. Those are both things that I do in a proposal, but I supposed what my concern is, is that now any client can just start messaging me without creating a job post? I don't mind someone asking if I'm even available before inviting me to apply, but I'm not sure I like any client out there being able to spam my inbox, and since I get so many spam invitations, I suspect this may happen more. 

 

Is this feature limited to a certain client plan? I could see it then making some sense. Again, I'm still thinking about the implications of this; has anyone else received these messages? 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


Amanda L wrote:


Thanks. I definitely see upsides and downsides. I also wonder if there are opt-out options. Like if I'm not open to being emailed right now by clients I don't have an existing relationship with, can I turn it off for a time until I'm available? What are the parameters on it? 



This very question was asked of a mod a while back when they announced this feauture.

Her (I think Valeria's) answer was, No, it's not possible to opt out of this direct messaging feature. However, you can, as usual, set your profile to private to avoid DMs and invites entirely.

 

Too lazy to pull up the thread now 😉

 

View solution in original post

34 REPLIES 34
petra_r
Community Member


Amanda L wrote:

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this feature, but I just had someone message me, someone I've never done business with so this would be a prospective new client, and they have not created any job post, they are reaching out to discuss my availability and expertise. Those are both things that I do in a proposal, but I supposed what my concern is, is that now any client can just start messaging me without creating a job post? I don't mind someone asking if I'm even available before inviting me to apply, but I'm not sure I like any client out there being able to spam my inbox, and since I get so many spam invitations, I suspect this may happen more. 

 

Is this feature limited to a certain client plan? I could see it then making some sense. Again, I'm still thinking about the implications of this; has anyone else received these messages? 


What is the problem? As long as the client verifies their payment method and you have a fully-funded (or hourly) contract in place before doing any work, why would you complain about people wanting to potentially work with you?

a_lipsey
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Amanda L wrote:

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this feature, but I just had someone message me, someone I've never done business with so this would be a prospective new client, and they have not created any job post, they are reaching out to discuss my availability and expertise. Those are both things that I do in a proposal, but I supposed what my concern is, is that now any client can just start messaging me without creating a job post? I don't mind someone asking if I'm even available before inviting me to apply, but I'm not sure I like any client out there being able to spam my inbox, and since I get so many spam invitations, I suspect this may happen more. 

 

Is this feature limited to a certain client plan? I could see it then making some sense. Again, I'm still thinking about the implications of this; has anyone else received these messages? 


What is the problem? As long as the client verifies their payment method and you have a fully-funded (or hourly) contract in place before doing any work, why would you complain about people wanting to potentially work with you?


Well, first of all, I distinctly said I wasn't sure how I felt about it, and I asked if others had experienced this. To answer your question about what is the problem: I didn't say there was a problem. I asked if others were getting messages this way. Perhaps I'm different, but most of my work is with offline clients, not through UpWork. My availability is set to as needed, as I only take projects in which I'm really interested and not because I'm lacking for work. I get a lot of spam invitations, and while I certainly don't mind hitting the "decline" button, I want to be able to be responsive and if this is going to be a source of more spam for me, then that's a concern for me. These are not "complaints" but concerns. 

russtice
Community Member

Yes,  got one yesterday.  What is the purpose of the whole proposal process if they can just contact the freelancer directly? 

I will say the person that contacted me never responded. So yeah you are probably right about being more spam to keep track of. 

It represents a major change.

 

Whether or not freelancers like this, the goal is to help clients, not freelancers.

 

I think this has the potential to be very positive for freelancers. But I see potential downsides. Too soon to tell.

 

Amanda's "I'm not sure how I feel about this feature" perfectly sums up where I'm at on this right now.


Preston H wrote:

It represents a major change.

 

Whether or not freelancers like this, the goal is to help clients, not freelancers.

 

I think this has the potential to be very positive for freelancers. But I see potential downsides. Too soon to tell.

 

Amanda's "I'm not sure how I feel about this feature" perfectly sums up where I'm at on this right now.


Thanks. I definitely see upsides and downsides. I also wonder if there are opt-out options. Like if I'm not open to being emailed right now by clients I don't have an existing relationship with, can I turn it off for a time until I'm available? What are the parameters on it? 


Amanda L wrote:


Thanks. I definitely see upsides and downsides. I also wonder if there are opt-out options. Like if I'm not open to being emailed right now by clients I don't have an existing relationship with, can I turn it off for a time until I'm available? What are the parameters on it? 



This very question was asked of a mod a while back when they announced this feauture.

Her (I think Valeria's) answer was, No, it's not possible to opt out of this direct messaging feature. However, you can, as usual, set your profile to private to avoid DMs and invites entirely.

 

Too lazy to pull up the thread now 😉

 


Abinadab A wrote:

Amanda L wrote:


Thanks. I definitely see upsides and downsides. I also wonder if there are opt-out options. Like if I'm not open to being emailed right now by clients I don't have an existing relationship with, can I turn it off for a time until I'm available? What are the parameters on it? 



This very question was asked of a mod a while back when they announced this feauture.

Her (I think Valeria's) answer was, No, it's not possible to opt out of this direct messaging feature. However, you can, as usual, set your profile to private to avoid DMs and invites entirely.

 

Too lazy to pull up the thread now 😉

 


Thanks, I did find it. Don't know why I missed it before. 

From a client perspective, this feature is extremely useful. If I were Upwork, I would add an option for freelancers to opt out if they don't want to speak with prospective clients. This would make sense. I don't want to message someone only to find out that they don't want to speak to me.

 

I would also send out e-mails to each freelancer to inform them that a new thing has been rolled out. I wouldn't let them find out by chance.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Rene K wrote:

From a client perspective, this feature is extremely useful. If I were Upwork, I would add an option for freelancers to opt out if they don't want to speak with prospective clients. This would make sense. I don't want to message someone only to find out that they don't want to speak to me.

 

I would also send out e-mails to each freelancer to inform them that a new thing has been rolled out.  I wouldn't let them find out by chance.

 

 


What a novel idea ...


Rene K wrote:

 

I would also send out e-mails to each freelancer to inform them that a new thing has been rolled out. I wouldn't let them find out by chance.

 

 


@rene - i'm not sure how I feel about your radical ideas on this "community" forum.... 🙂


Russell T wrote:

Yes,  got one yesterday.  What is the purpose of the whole proposal process if they can just contact the freelancer directly? 

I will say the person that contacted me never responded. So yeah you are probably right about being more spam to keep track of. 


You got one yesterday and the person "never" responded?

 

I've had clients get back to me after three days or a week or occasionally a couple of months and hire me. The fact that this client wasn't glued to his keyboard awaiting your response hardly means he's not going to respond.

abinadab-agbo
Community Member

Amanda, your concerns are legitimate.

There are indeed fears this could lead to a rise in spam, as clients are no longer required to put some thought into a job post before they can contact a freelancer.

 

Note that, as per the announcement that was given, this feature would only be available to Plus clients.


Abinadab A wrote:

Amanda, your concerns are legitimate.

There are indeed fears this could lead to a rise in spam, as clients are no longer required to put some thought into a job post before they can contact a freelancer.

 

Note that, as per the announcement that was given, this feature would only be available to Plus clients.


Oh, I must have missed the announcement. I did search around the forums for it, but didn't see it. I will look again. Thank you, Abinadab. I will go see if I can find it. 


Abinadab A wrote:

Amanda, your concerns are legitimate.

There are indeed fears this could lead to a rise in spam, as clients are no longer required to put some thought into a job post before they can contact a freelancer.

 

Note that, as per the announcement that was given, this feature would only be available to Plus clients.


I wonder if there is a way to turn it off.

 

I don't mind it in theory--actually think it might be better than the client having to guess at a bunch of stuff to construct a job posting. But, the likelihood that I'd be working with a Plus client is pretty small. I'm probably not the only one in that situation, but it would be nice if there were a way to opt out for those it's not relevant to.

atreglia
Community Member


Amanda L wrote:

Again, I'm still thinking about the implications of this; 


Me too.  It's a bit intrusive.

datasciencewonk
Community Member

Yeah, I'm on the fence about this as well (for my business, not making any speculations about how other FLers could benefit or not). I did receive a DM when they initially rolled it out; the client disappeared into the client ether (but, that's nothing new in the FL world). I definitely don't want to be spammed -- I'd say about 1 in 10 invites that I receive are a mutually beneficial "fit." So, I definitely don't want the other 9 to be able to fill my inbox with "pLeAsE wRiTe tHiS fOr $.01 pEr WoRd!" 

 

 

I don't know if someone has explored this territory or not. What if you had a DM feature but in order for clients to send one, they actually had to attach a project description? Then you could allow the freelancer to accept or decline a discussion about the project description. So it could be like a direct invitation to consider and discuss a project rather than just a message. And you could either say "yes", "no", or "please provide me with more information" (and maybe even have a blank spot where you could specify the information that you needed from the potential client). 

I think I would find that more constructive than just having someone message me directly.  

Does anyone have any suggestions about what would make something like this work for them? Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate a little in this case because I've generally hated most of the new features that have been thrust upon me. So I get it if you just have a knee-jerk reaction to hate it. I'm just curious if there is anything that would make this feature more desireable if you thought there was a way you could stop hating it. 


Renata S wrote:

I don't know if someone has explored this territory or not. What if you had a DM feature but in order for clients to send one, they actually had to attach a project description? Then you could allow the freelancer to accept or decline a discussion about the project description. So it could be like a direct invitation to consider and discuss a project rather than just a message. And you could either say "yes", "no", or "please provide me with more information" (and maybe even have a blank spot where you could specify the information that you needed from the potential client). 

I think I would find that more constructive than just having someone message me directly.  

Does anyone have any suggestions about what would make something like this work for them? Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate a little in this case because I've generally hated most of the new features that have been thrust upon me. So I get it if you just have a knee-jerk reaction to hate it. I'm just curious if there is anything that would make this feature more desireable if you thought there was a way you could stop hating it. 


It's not that I hate it at all. Personally, I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. Almost every invitation I get is not a project I'm interested in working on, for a variety of reasons. I don't want to set my profile to private, even though I have limited availability, on the off chance that the sort of project and client I'm looking for shows up. This HAS happened before. So what it means for me is more "spam" messages from clients. But if I was really hustling for work, it wouldn't be such a bad thing. I just wish we had some power to set some parameters on it so neither we nor the clients had to waste time. So yes, opting out of receiving unsolicited messages seems like it would be a good solution. 

chasb
Community Member

Barring any official announcement, nobody can really know any of the answers to any of the key questions raised here.


The two things we can deduce so far, however, are:
1) Extra leverage awarded to Plus clients, who often pay below minimum wage and understandably attract little attention from experienced freelancers.
2) Not even the basic courtesy of an official announcement to freelancers - an issue already raised elsewhere on these pages just recently.


It will be those more experienced freelancers here who are paying particular attention to these two developments.


Renata S wrote:

I don't know if someone has explored this territory or not. What if you had a DM feature but in order for clients to send one, they actually had to attach a project description? Then you could allow the freelancer to accept or decline a discussion about the project description. So it could be like a direct invitation to consider and discuss a project rather than just a message. And you could either say "yes", "no", or "please provide me with more information" (and maybe even have a blank spot where you could specify the information that you needed from the potential client). 

 

This sounds very reasonable, yet I think it could undermine what I see as one of the key possible benefits (perhaps the only benefit) of this feature, which is that it avoids forcing clients to create a job posting when they don't know exactly what they want, making it either incomplete or inaccurate. 

 

In the outside world, client projects often evolve significantly in our initial discussions, and that's beneficial to both of us. I don't like the idea of forcing a client with an open-ended mindset to put their project in a less-than-ideal box before starting a conversation.


Tiffany S wrote:

Renata S wrote:

I don't know if someone has explored this territory or not. What if you had a DM feature but in order for clients to send one, they actually had to attach a project description? Then you could allow the freelancer to accept or decline a discussion about the project description. So it could be like a direct invitation to consider and discuss a project rather than just a message. And you could either say "yes", "no", or "please provide me with more information" (and maybe even have a blank spot where you could specify the information that you needed from the potential client). 

 

This sounds very reasonable, yet I think it could undermine what I see as one of the key possible benefits (perhaps the only benefit) of this feature, which is that it avoids forcing clients to create a job posting when they don't know exactly what they want, making it either incomplete or inaccurate. 

 

In the outside world, client projects often evolve significantly in our initial discussions, and that's beneficial to both of us. I don't like the idea of forcing a client with an open-ended mindset to put their project in a less-than-ideal box before starting a conversation.


I agree, good idea Renata...however I can already see the forum posts of the client's project description is not descriptive enough.


Tiffany S wrote:

Renata S wrote:

I don't know if someone has explored this territory or not. What if you had a DM feature but in order for clients to send one, they actually had to attach a project description? Then you could allow the freelancer to accept or decline a discussion about the project description. So it could be like a direct invitation to consider and discuss a project rather than just a message. And you could either say "yes", "no", or "please provide me with more information" (and maybe even have a blank spot where you could specify the information that you needed from the potential client). 

 

This sounds very reasonable, yet I think it could undermine what I see as one of the key possible benefits (perhaps the only benefit) of this feature, which is that it avoids forcing clients to create a job posting when they don't know exactly what they want, making it either incomplete or inaccurate. 

 

In the outside world, client projects often evolve significantly in our initial discussions, and that's beneficial to both of us. I don't like the idea of forcing a client with an open-ended mindset to put their project in a less-than-ideal box before starting a conversation.


I think it's another case where there isn't a one-size-fits all solution that will suit everyone on the board because our projects come in all kinds of different shapes and sizes, and they involve all kinds of different working approaches.

The trouble with most of the new bells and whistles has been that they only offer one, generally inflexible solution. If you're working in writing (a generative process), then the discussion is going to be more open ended. So what works for me may not necessarily work for you. And for me, it sometimes depends on the project.

 As an uncommitted friend of mine said about Brexit, "what will be, will be, and so I feel about Upwork.  I am so tired of these pointless (and probably expensive) publicity rollouts that I have given up. 

 

Upwork do what you want to do to my profile. Although, I have to say, I might object if you start tampering with the text. I'm still hoping that the  Bethlehem star, the pocket rocket, and the flame of shame will soon disappear. 


Renata S wrote:

 What if you had a DM feature but in order for clients to send one, they actually had to attach a project description? 


That would complicate something that has been imagined to be simple: a mean for a client to send a message to a freelancer. Just like when someone sends an e-mail to a freelancer through their website. The freelancer who receives this e-mail through their own website is under no obligation to answer, but if they do, a dialogue may take place which may or may not result in a contract.

 

Now I would add an option for freelancers to opt-out. If there is a Contact button on the profile allowing for a direct message to be sent, they woudn't have it.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
emdhny
Community Member

Has anyone responded to these by propoing a contract? I've been speaking with a client and he's ready to hire, but he asked me to set up the contract. There doesnt seem to be an easy (if any) way for me to do this as a freelancer. 
I am guessing that he needs to now create a job and invite me to it, or soemthing along those lines. I sent him links to upwork's help section that outline the process, but it feels like a lot of hoops to jump through when we've already defined the work and payment. 

Am I missing something?

AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread, and has shared their thoughts about this beta test. For reference, everyone may refer to this announcement post we have posted back in July that shares more information about the beta test. 

As this is a beta test, it doesn't look like it's necessary to send an email to all the users about the test as not all users will be affected by it. However, I will share this suggestion with the team for their consideration. 

For those who find the direct messages intrusive, you have the option of ignoring the Direct Message or blocking the client in Messages. Ignoring a Direct Message will not affect the freelancer’s JSS/ responsiveness score or ability to be invited to jobs in the future. Blocking a client will prevent a freelancer from receiving messages and invites from the client in the future.


~ Avery
Upwork
renata101
Community Member


Avery O wrote:

As this is a beta test, it doesn't look like it's necessary to send an email to all the users about the test as not all users will be affected by it. However, I will share this suggestion with the team for their consideration. 


But it should be necessary to ask freelancers for some form of informed consent indicating whether or not they want to be part of a beta test. UpWork has a habit of just imposing these things on us without asking. Key take home idea: informing people that things are being tested on them does not equal asking people whether they agree to participate in the test.

If you're "asking" someone to take part in a beta test, you should ask whether they agree to participate and accept anything other than a clear "yes" as a no.

 

Renata's suggestion of what it will take to make this work to everyone's advantage is spot on.  

 

Without some sort of job description attached to the DMs the entire concept is worthless.  Good FLers are not going to spend time on a blanket "wanna work for me" approach any more than they will bid on those types of RFPs.

 

Upwork wants steady a income; so do we. A 'buyer' who can't be bothered to even try and describe what h/she is looking for does not inspire interest ... or trust for that matter.


Avery O wrote:


As this is a beta test, it doesn't look like it's necessary to send an email to all the users about the test as not all users will be affected by it. 


You have to. You have to let people you selected for this test know that they may get DMs. No everyone comes here to read what's going on.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
tlsanders
Community Member


Avery O wrote:

As this is a beta test, it doesn't look like it's necessary to send an email to all the users about the test as not all users will be affected by it. However, I will share this suggestion with the team for their consideration. 

 

I didn't see anyone suggest that you should email all users. Are you saying that you DID email the users who were included in the test?


Tiffany S wrote:

Avery O wrote:

As this is a beta test, it doesn't look like it's necessary to send an email to all the users about the test as not all users will be affected by it. However, I will share this suggestion with the team for their consideration. 

 

I didn't see anyone suggest that you should email all users. Are you saying that you DID email the users who were included in the test?


Well, they certainly didn't email me, and I got a private message from a "client."

 

In all fairness to the mentions about job descriptions, the message I got was fairly direct about what they were looking for in general. The client was looking for a grant writer and he gave me a link to his organization, and a short sentence on what they are doing. The problem is, that's often what grant writer job posts look like, and the reason I don't respond to those are because (a) budget too low, (b) I don't think they are fundable so not wasting my time,  (c) it's just not a project I'm interested in or (d) combination of all of the above. So it's not that there wasn't some jumping off point. 

 

Again, I'm not against the feature, I just think there should be an opt out if you do not wish to receive unsolicited messages. 

 

Also, Avery, another thought: once this client messages me, I now have access to spam them back at will anytime I want/need work. (Not that I'd do that but just saying, since clients are god here, you've now opened them up for a lot of nuisance as well.) 

Amanda, same here.  I was never asked by U; I did NOT sign up for it .... but I got a DM.

 

Hence, my observations above on why it doesn't work as is and what needs to be done if U wants to implement it on for other than us "not-signed-up-to-be-guinea-pigs" FLers.


Avery O wrote:


....As this is a beta test, it doesn't look like it's necessary to send an email to all the users about the test as not all users will be affected by it....

For those who find the direct messages intrusive, you have the option of ignoring the Direct Message or blocking the client in Messages. Ignoring a Direct Message will not affect the freelancer’s JSS/ responsiveness score or ability to be invited to jobs in the future. Blocking a client will prevent a freelancer from receiving messages and invites from the client in the future.


Avery, I am sorry you have been given such a terrible script to transmit.

Are you saying that it is only a subset of users (clients) who can send direct messages and a subset of users (freelancers) who can receive them? Because unless you are saying that, then all freelancers are affected by it. And if you are saying that, how can it possibly be useful to clients to be able to direct-message only an arbitrary subset of freelancers?

By the way, beta testing is not to be confused with A-B testing. This is a longstanding and aggravating fundamental misunderstanding by Upwork of the testing process. Beta testing is historically—and remains—by invitation, whether that invitation is open to the "public" or to a select group. And it is typically opt-in, whereas we can't even get the courtesy of an opt-out.

The suggestion to "ignore" a feature some consider intrusive is sadly typical of Upwork's lack of concern for user feedback. The suggestion to block a client who innocently uses a feature promoted to them by Upwork, and which Upwork is promoting as useful, and some freelancers argue might be useful, comes very close to telling us to cut off our noses to spite our faces.

As Michael wrote X 1,000,000.

 

 

Latest Articles
Featured Topics
Learning Paths