Sep 4, 2019 01:30:07 PM by Clark K
Is is permissible, once a fixed rate contract has been approved, for a freelancer, who finds that the job has creeped beyond its original scope due to increasing requests for changes, etc., from the client, to ask the client to set up and fund a new milestone to cover the additional work?
Sep 4, 2019 02:08:15 PM Edited Sep 4, 2019 02:09:39 PM by Maria P
A client can fund the next milestone only when the currently funded milestone is released.
When I was in a similar situation, my client opened another contract and funded the remaining amount.
Sep 4, 2019 02:59:39 PM by Preston H
re: "Is is permissible, once a fixed rate contract has been approved, for a freelancer, who finds that the job has creeped beyond its original scope due to increasing requests for changes, etc., from the client, to ask the client to set up and fund a new milestone to cover the additional work?"
Clark:
PLEASE do not work for free.
If you have a fixed-price contract with a client, then the client is not allowed to ask for anything beyond the original scope. It does not matter what the reason is. If the client asks for anything different or anything more, then the client is violating Upwork ToS.
You SHOULD NOT agree to do anything beyond the original agreement unless the client closes out the current agreement, releases all money in escrow to you, and sets up a new fixed-price contract, a new fixed-price milestone, or a new hourly contract.
A client is acting unprofessionally simply by asking you to do something outside of the original agreement.
Sep 4, 2019 03:04:58 PM by Preston H
I recommend that freelancers who have questions about this concept simply think about it from the perspective of what YOU would do if YOU were the client.
Imagine that YOU hired a painter to paint your house for $500.
When the painter is half-way through, would you ask the painter to ALSO paint the shed and the fence, all for the same price?
Of course you wouldn't do that. You would ask the the painter how much he would charge to do that additional work.
HELP CLIENTS to do the right thing.
If a client asks for additional work, then explain how they can get that work done CORRECTLY.
Sep 5, 2019 12:17:20 AM by Clark K
No one has answered the question yet. Sometimes jobs tend to grow. A few unexpected changes are needed. The client wants to rework several files. I'm doing more work than I had expected to do. I want and deserve more pay. Is it permissible to ask the client to fund a new milestone that takes us beyond the original dollar amount of the contract? Or does Upwork expect me to refuse to do the extra work unless the client is willing to set up a new job? I beleive it is permissible for me to ask for an additional milestone. I just want confirmation. All I can find in Upwork help under "Propose Milestrones" is this: "Once a contract is created, all future milestone creation and updates must be done by the client." Which also doesn't answer my question.
Sep 5, 2019 01:14:38 AM by Preston H
re: "Sometimes jobs tend to grow."
That is true.
But a milestone can not grow.
re: "A few unexpected changes are needed."
A fixed-price contract means you do precisely what is written in the original agreement. Nothing else.
re: "The client wants to rework several files. I'm doing more work than I had expected to do."
You shouldn't be doing that. I don't do that.
re: "I want and deserve more pay. Is it permissible to ask the client to fund a new milestone that takes us beyond the original dollar amount of the contract?"
Of course. How is that even a question?
re: "Or does Upwork expect me to refuse to do the extra work unless the client is willing to set up a new job?"
The client can create a new milestone. OR create a new contract.
re: "I believe it is permissible for me to ask for an additional milestone."
Yes, you SHOULD ask for an additional milestone or a new contract any time the client wants new work or changes.
Sep 13, 2019 01:37:43 PM by Clark K
Could you give me a link to where this appears in the TOS, so that I can send that link to my client? Thanks.
Sep 13, 2019 02:05:44 PM by Petra R
Clark K wrote:Could you give me a link to where this appears in the TOS, so that I can send that link to my client? Thanks.
What actually happened in the meantime? Is the client saying that he is not asking for anything in excess of what the milestone should have included?
Generally, by the time a freelancer tells a client that they are violating the terms of service the whole relationship has gone beyond the point of repair.
Clients are not allowed to ask for free work, but what is "free work" is not as black and white as it first appears and once you have an existing relationship with a client it is much better to sort things out in a friendly, firm and professional manner rather than throwing the terms of service at them.
Sep 13, 2019 07:09:23 PM by Clark K
Oh I cut my losses on that job and got out. I couldn't face continuing to argue with that person about whether it was right to calculate a new milestone based on my hourly rate. I didn't lose too much on that job.
I'm asking about the TOS because a have a couple of fixed-rate clients now who are piling on more work, and just in case they object to my asking for more money I would like to be able to show them that they shouldn't.
Sep 13, 2019 07:16:42 PM by John K
Clark, I looked at your profile so I see you've been around and doubt I could say anything that you haven't already heard, but with a new client and a fixed rate job, it might be wise going forward to specify before accepting a contract precisely what you're willing to do for the agreed upon price, including but not limited to the number of revisions you're willing to do. That won't prevent a client from stretching the scope, but it would give you some ammo should things escalate to a dispute.
Sep 13, 2019 07:41:43 PM by Tiffany S
Clark K wrote:Could you give me a link to where this appears in the TOS, so that I can send that link to my client? Thanks.
Not really. That's kind of like asking for a link to where in the TOS it says that it's okay to use the word "blue" in your contract or drink a glass of water while you're working.
That said, the one thing I haven't seen anyone else address is that you seem to be saying that you've already done the work and now want to retroactively ask the client to pay more for it. IMO, that is totally inappropriate. It would have been fine and advisable to say, "Sure, I can do that, but it will cost an extra $X" when it arose, but going back and telling the client he should pay you more after you've done the work without mentioning an extra fee is pretty shady.
Sep 13, 2019 09:42:33 PM by Clark K
I don't know where you got that impression, but it's wrong. What would my justification be to ask for more money after the job is finished? I have and have had clients who want to add more work to the original contract but don’t think they should have to pay for it. It’s as if by taking the job I agreed to finish the job no matter how monumentally blown out of proportion it gets. If that’s what fixed-rate means on Upwork, that the freelancer must do anything the client asks for and will only get the amount he or she originally agreed to, then I think I’m going over to hourly jobs only.
Sep 14, 2019 05:27:12 AM by Petra R
Clark K wrote:If that’s what fixed-rate means on Upwork, that the freelancer must do anything the client asks for and will only get the amount he or she originally agreed to,
That is not at all what it means. Nobody said any such thing.
It means that you have to specify what is included in a milestone.
When further things appear during the course of the work, you communicate with the client on a professional level, one business partner to the other, that you'll be pleased to do those other things, at a cost of $ XXX.
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