New on Upwork - Unclear Communication for an urgent project - Requested revisions forever many times

[jaclynstw]

Hi there!

Hope you guys are doing well. 🙂

I've just started to work on Upwork and it's been amazing. However, I'm currently facing an issue that one of my clients came back to me and asked for another revision for the project.

She mentioned that it was an urgent project and I didn't do my part to state the details like extra charges for revision, etc. That's on me. Hence, I helped her to render different versions of the video even if it was late night for me in my region. The project ended on 15 November and here's the message I received from her:

**edited for Community Guidelines**

As mentioned, I'm very new to this platform and I would hope that I can get as many positive review as I can. If I were to refuse to make the revision, I might be getting a bad review from her and it might affect me losing some potential clients when they read the review given by her.

May I ask for some advice on how to deal with this client? Appreciate helps from y'all! 🙂

Thanks and have a GREAT day!

[prestonhunter]

Well, here's the thing you need to understand:

Upwork is not the communication police.

There ARE clients who have excellent communication skills.

And there are clients who have very poor communication skills.

Getting a client to communicate more effectively is not something that you can appeal to Upwork to help you with.

You need to develop strategies to deal with this sort of thing.

Talk to us here in the Forum if you need help.

Here are some things I do as a freelancer. These are not necessarily the same techniques that other freelancers use:

- When a client hires me with a fixed-price contract, I have ALL of the information necessary to complete the task. NO COMMUNICATION is necessary.

- A fixed-price contract does not include communications. It includes doing the work. Email? Phone calls? Zoom sessions? Those cost extra.

- There are no "revisions" in a fixed-price contract with me. The work is done when I say it is done.

- If these rules don't meet a client's needs, then it is an HOURLY CONTRACT. I have fixed-price rules and a client quickly loses their "fixed-price" card if they don't follow my rules. They get moved to hourly contracts only. With an hourly contract, a client can communicate as poorly as they want to, because I get paid for all of the time I spend working on the project, including redoing work that was poorly described in the first place.

[jaclynstw]

Hi Preston,

Thanks for taking time to reply and sharing the techniques and I think it's such smart move to do this! I will definitely use them in the coming jobs! 

Appreciate your help! 

[wlyonsatl]

Su Teng W.,

Preston's advice is no doubt spot on - for the types of projects he does on Upwork.

In my own little corner of Upwork heaven, I'd guess about 10% - 20% of my time is spent communicating with each client (including Zoom calls, message board messages, etc.) after a project has started.

You have to decide, sooner rather than later, how you need to communicate with both potential clients and actual clients to ensure a successful project.

Before a contract is in place, get all the information you need to start the project. The client may need to gather additional information while you are working on the project, so before you start work for a new client get their written confirmation about the information they will provide you during the project.

Once the project has started, keep the client up to date with your progress and remind them what information they said they'd provide, if they haven't delivered it to you. And if you need any unexpected or other additional information, let them know. (You're not a psychic or fortuneteller - many types of projects have unexpected twists and turns.) Often you as the freelancer are in charge of information flows  because your client has hired you to do something they don't know how to do for themselves. 

For me, there is probably no single thing that is more important for success on Upwork than communication. As the freelancer, you will deal with clients who are on top of things and are responsive to your communication (God bless 'em) and others who don't even understand what you are asking for. 

In terms of including revisions in your contracts, other posters here will tell you more than I can as to how to deal with that problem. I only do hourly contracts, so I'll do as many revisions as the client requires and charge them for the time required.

Be proactive in dealing with all of your clients until the project comes to an end. 

Good luck!

[AveryO]

Hi Su Teng, 

Both parties are obligated to abide by the terms agreed at the onset of the job unless they decide to change the terms later. If a client asks for additional work that you and the client never agreed to, the freelancer has the option to decline the work and close the contract.

Additionally, a freelancer is not required by the Upwork Terms of Service to work on a milestone if they don't agree to it. The client needs to get the freelancer's consent first before adding a new milestone. If the freelancer doesn't accept the added milestone, they can reject it and discuss how  to move forward.

I'd like to point out that you are the owner of your freelance business, and you decide how you wish to proceed. 

I hope this helps!

[petra_r]

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Avery O wrote:

The client needs to get the freelancer's consent first before adding a new milestone. If the freelancer doesn't accept the added milestone, they can reject it and discuss how  to move forward.

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This isn't actually true, unfortunately. A client can add another milestone any time they like, and the ONLY way a freelancer can reject such a milestone is by ending the whole contract, which is basically throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

There is no function that lets a freelancer reject a milestone, although we have asked for that for years. 

[AveryO]

Thank you for highlighting this, Petra!

I want to note that while there is no functionality on the freelancer's end to reject milestones, freelancers can propose changes to a milestone. If the milestone wasn't what a freelancer expected, they could always reach out to their client to discuss the milestone to determine whether it can be edited or deleted.

Just the same, I'll make sure to share this as feedback to be considered. 

[wlyonsatl]

Avery,

What is Upwork's logic in allowing a client to add a milestone but not allowing the freelancer to reject it?

It makes no sense to tell a freelancer they are in charge of structuring and managing their projects yet not allowing the freelancer to control the client's changes to structure once the project has  begun!

Will

[jaclynstw]

Thanks Avery! I appreciate that you took the time to reply and I will try my best to state everything clearly next time! Hope you have a good one! 🙂

[data_divas]

I would suggest that you state the number of revisions you will do in your future proposals and client communications and also offer that after that number (whatever it is) has been exhausted they can hire you on an hourly basis or add another milestone for more revisions such as 5 more revisions for $50 or whatever you charge.

For this current contract, I personally would just try to make her happy with a few more revisions and be done with it.

[jaclynstw]

Hi Julie, that's a great advice you have there and I will definitely do that in the future to avoid the same situation happen again. 

She has asked for at least 5 revisions so far and I decided to make the final FINAL revision for her yesterday and clearly stated that it was the FINAL version she was getting.  

Anyway, she came back today asking for more revisions (as expected) and I told her specifically that she may send me another offer with the rate that I've stated and additional charge for the native file. 

Hope it will go smoothly this time. Thanks Julie! 🙂

[prestonhunter]

re: “She has asked for at least 5 revisions so far and I decided to make the final FINAL revision for her yesterday and clearly stated that it was the FINAL version she was getting.”

When clients behave that way… I honestly don’t know if they are intentionally being inappropriate… or if they are simply ignorant.

But I realized a long time ago that it is impossible to discern motives and reasons, and not helpful even if I could know them.

So as a freelancer I focus on behavior and make sure that clients understand my rules.

If we really look at the Upwork system the way a client sees it… the language and user interface is somewhat open to interpretation. So… strictly speaking… it is possible for a client to think it is okay to ask for multiple “revisions”, even if someone like myself thinks that such requests are ridiculous. So, yeah: A freelancer really needs to communicate clear limits before a contract begins.