Newbies & Interviews (i.e. Scams)

[m_sharman]

After reading and seeing multiple threads regarding newbies and scammers, I wonder if Upwork should prohibit clients from inviting new Freelancers to jobs.

I have no data, but has anyone who is brand new to Upwork, with zero earnings, ever received a legit invite?  If the answer is no, would implementing this limitation to invitations help?

[abinadab-agbo]

It won't help, Unless they can create an exception for new to Upwork freelancers who brought their existing clients to Upwork.

For this category of freelancers (albeit rare), that invite is very important and all the groundwork has already been done (in terms of building relationship between client and freelancer).

Upwork cannot afford to place any restriction to invitations in the scenario I just described.

Heck, they are begging (though are not yet willing to pay) freelancers to bring their existing clients to Upwork!

[m_sharman]

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Abinadab A wrote:

It won't help, Unless they can create an exception for new to Upwork freelancers who brought their existing clients to Upwork.

For this category of freelancers (albeit rare), that invite is very important and all the groundwork has already been done (in terms of building relationship between client and freelancer).

Upwork cannot afford to place any restriction to invitations in the scenario I just described.

Heck, they are begging (though are not yet willing to pay) freelancers to bring their existing clients to Upwork!

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Yes, but I thought that program was directed at top rated freelancers who already have a reputation.

At any rate, I'm not saying my idea is awesome, I just feel like daily there are posts about google hangouts and suspicious invites.  

[abinadab-agbo]

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Miriam H wrote:

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Abinadab A wrote:

It won't help, Unless they can create an exception for new to Upwork freelancers who brought their existing clients to Upwork.

For this category of freelancers (albeit rare), that invite is very important and all the groundwork has already been done (in terms of building relationship between client and freelancer).

Upwork cannot afford to place any restriction to invitations in the scenario I just described.

Heck, they are begging (though are not yet willing to pay) freelancers to bring their existing clients to Upwork!

---

Yes, but I thought that program was directed at top rated freelancers who already have a reputation.

At any rate, I'm not saying my idea is awesome, I just feel like daily there are posts about google hangouts and suspicious invites.  

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Hey, you're right!

I appear to have forgotten that the BYOC is only for the Top Rated.

That said, your suggestion, though well-meaning, may not pan out too well.

Even though it is unlikely that a freelancer new to Upwork would get invited straight out the blue for a project, it does happen.

It happened to me last two weeks! Well, not to me, but I was involved lol.

A client interviewed me, deemed me to be too expensive, and closed the job posting within a few hours. We must have been 2 or 3 applicants to that job when he closed it.

Few days later, he made a private posting and succeded in hiring a new freelancer for cheap!

(Hint: he complained about the project outcome in his review to the freelancer).

The point is, this stuff happens (clients with real projects and real money to pay hunting specifically for new freelancers, for a wide range of reasons).

If Upwork were to implement your suggestion it might be too much of a cog in the wheel of business on Upwork.

[wendy_writes]

Miriam,  while I understand your intentions are good, can you imagine the uproar if U followed through?

Legit invites (i.e., not scam jobs) are supposedly based on proven skill sets and a track record of performance at least to some degree. I rather doubt if the U generated invites hold too closely to those parameters. 

People - new or not - need to learn how to write an effective proposal; those professionals who understand what freelancing entails and what business is about can and do write winning proposals.  These are the ones U. wants to keep.  

It's the wanna-be's that come crying and yelling "unfair" in the forums because they couldn't be bothered to learn a single thing.  

[m_sharman]

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Wendy C wrote:

Miriam,  while I understand your intentions are good, can you imagine the uproar if U followed through?

Legit invites (i.e., not scam jobs) are supposedly based on proven skill sets and a track record of performance at least to some degree. I rather doubt if the U generated invites hold too closely to those parameters. 

People - new or not - need to learn how to write an effective proposal; those professionals who understand what freelancing entails and what business is about can and do write winning proposals.  These are the ones U. wants to keep.  

 Yes, I understand that, but U also wants to eliminate the scammers...and their powers (the scammers) seem to be very effective on brand new folks. 

I haven't taken the Upwork readiness test, I wonder whether it covers this..

[wendy_writes]

The test is basic - and no, it really does not cover the basics you're talking about.

Plus someone found tutorials for taking it on YouTube ... which, IMHO, is truly the height of laziness for any would be freelancer.

What does cover it - and is not used enough - are threads in the New to Upwork section.

[m_sharman]

Sigh.. It's unfortunate the test doesn't address this issue. Seems a missed opportunity.

Such is life

[tlsanders]

Miriam, in a long-ago thread someone mentioned that it was unlikely that a brand new freelancer would ever get a legitimate invitation and a couple of people spoke up and said that they made a point of considering newcomers when sending invitations specifically because they knew how hard it could be to get started here. I'm sure it's few and far between, but it does happen.

[65dab6ce]

I doubt that Upwork would consider that. While I understand the sentiment behind it, I don't believe it's a good idea, either. I believe educating freelancers about protecting themselves and doing their due diligence is still the way to go. Unfortunately, it still won't totally prevent freelancers from falling prey. The temptation can so strong when you're trying to get that first job, you're willing to give any client the benefit of the doubt.

Such is life.

[tlsanders]

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Remi O wrote:

 I believe educating freelancers about protecting themselves and doing their due diligence is still the way to go.

I think that's the crux of the issue. Upwork makes roughly 1 billion pages of information available to educate freelancers, and it seems that about 1% of freelancers ever choose to look at them. Then, when they get bitten by an obvious scam because they didn't look at the 178 separate warnings about that particular scam, it becomes Upwork's problem.

[wendy_writes]

Just reiterating ....

"Upwork makes roughly 1 billion pages of information available to educate freelancers, and it seems that about 1% of freelancers ever choose to look at them. Then, when they get bitten by an obvious scam because they didn't look at the 178 separate warnings about that particular scam, it becomes Upwork's problem."

[jodypm]

Hi Miriam,

I pretty much agree with you and every other person who's commented on this thread. I see all of the points brought up as vaild.

Alternatively, following your idea, Miriam; instead of restricting them, how about just imposing a strong consent form to the new freelancer making them click through the warnings and recommended documentation that's been written to keep freelancers (and clients) safe before they can accept the invitation?

Best regards,

Jody PM

"Not so fast, junior."

[petra_r]

To be blunt, people who genuinly believe that some big company would really send a genuine check to some stranger on the Internet after some google-hangout fake interview with "a hiring manager" to buy office equipment from their "trusted supplier"  have no business trying to navigate the shark-infested waters of working online and should have their Internet access revoked until they grow some common sense.

This is not an Upwork problem, this is a "**Edited for Community Guidelines** people using the internet" problem.

I read a scientific study years ago (this scam is as old as the hills...) that the scammers deliberately frame their scams in such a way that only the most gullible, simple-minded, naive individuals fall for it, to save themselves the time wasted on people who aren't **Edited for Community Guidelines** enough to fall for nonsense like that.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Petra R wrote:

To be blunt, people who genuinly believe that some big company would really send a genuine check to some stranger on the Internet after some google-hangout fake interview with "a hiring manager" to buy office equipment from their "trusted supplier"  have no business trying to navigate the shark-infested waters of working online and should have their Internet access revoked until they grow some common sense.

This is not an Upwork problem, this is a "**Edited for Community Guidelines** people using the internet" problem.

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I completely agree. Come on, people - these scams are nothing new, and Upwork freelancers *should* be even savvier than the average person, since their very livelihood depends on being able to navigate this whole "Internet" thing. I don't see how it would help if Upwork put more instructions in place to warn people, since it's only too obvious from this forum that most people who run into problems have never read anything at all.

I think that a little common sense goes a long way, and if people don't have it, then all of the instructions in the world won't help them. Or, since Miriam is being very nice in trying to help, how about just one sentence before each "accept proposal" screen that reads,

"If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

[gilbert-phyllis · Accepted solution]

I haven't had my coffee yet, so here's my unvarnished take on it. If we are considering extra measures for brand-new FLs, how about  putting them through some qualifying questions before they can post a question or start a ticket, for instance:

- did you accept an interview in Google hangouts?

- did you send personal info to a client other than you email address and/or tel no?

- did you perform work without having a contract in place?

- has someone offered you payment by any means other than through UW, for any reason?

ETA:

- did you have a previous UW account that was closed for any reason (by you or by UW)?

- has a client been rude to you or hurt your feelings?

- do you need for UW to make an exception to stated policy because your circumstances are special?

Just a partial list, but if they answer 'yes' to any of the questions, send them directly to 'help' material (and/or to a relevant forum thread). It's tough to get started here if you don't already have experience working on your own but it's not impossible. What is impossible is to do it if you don't the gumption to do some homework and understand what you're getting into before you begin. I honestly don't see how anybody who lacks that, is going to succeed as a freelancer, anyway. Therefore, I'd rather see UW not spend resources trying to accommodate those people and their 99% avoidable problems and predicaments.

They could also make the UW Readiness Test harder to game by (1) incorporating some questions that measure common sense about freelancing, and (2) changing the questions frequently (have a very large bank of questions that are randomly rotated in and out of live tests).

[AleksandarD]

Hi Phyllis,

Thanks for sharing your feedback with us! I'll be sure to pass it on to our product team for consideration.

Thank you.

[abinadab-agbo]

Upwork should pay you for that checklist, Phyllis!

[johnlamont]

Your suggestions are sound, but they have a taste of "buyer beware". I'm a newbie and I don't recall getting alerted by Upwork when I registered that I need to be attentive to the fact that scammers use the site, pretending to be clients. At the end of my "interview" it became evident what was going on.  I reported the associated email addresses to the Upwork phishing email. It would be nice to know these email addresses will be blocked. It would also be helpful for newbies like myself, for a tad of advance warning, in fact I think Upwork has a responsibility to adivse newly registered freelancers of the fact they can be scammed, and it shouldn't be buried in terms of service.

[data_divas]

Well Upwork is on the internet and most people know that scams are plentiful on the internet.  My various email services never warned me that I might receive scams to my inbox but nevertheless they are there.

I figure the whole internet is very "buyer beware".

[johnlamont]

I was just hooked into a scam and I reported it to the phishing email, and yes I'm a newbie. I spent a solid hour going through the interview until it became apparent they were looking for bank information. 

I think your suggestion is worthwhile.

[data_divas]

On the bright side, this scam caused to you find this forum which is a wealth of information that will help you be a sucess here. 

Experienced Upworkers who offer advice are worth their weight in gold to someone just starting out.