Apr 9, 2023 04:53:16 PM Edited Apr 9, 2023 04:57:16 PM by Tim B
I have been a freelancer on UpWork for a long time. I am a top-rated freelancer. So I have worked REALLY hard to build and maintain a strong rep here. But honestly, I am getting sick and tried of the nickel and dime mentality UpWork has had toward freelancer over the last year or.
UpWork introduces as auction style bid system which means now we have to spend more money to buy more connects in order to actually compete, rather than competing based on merit and reputation!
Now they want use to pay weekly connects to have the "availability" badge! Whats worse is that the price for this is fluid so while it may cost us 7 connects this week, it may cost us 10 next week!
This is getting stupid and I for one am growing weary. Does UpWork not realize or care about the negative impact this has not JUST for freelancers but for clients too!? As my cost of doing business on UpWork goes up, I have to pass that on to clients.
I am a capitalist so I get the drive to make money. But when you screw the very people that make your business run, you shoot yourself in the foot.
I for one am about to leave UpWork for good. I am working to get on to Codeble and TopTal and other freelance networks that actually care about their freelancers.
UpWork, you REALLY need to get your heads out of your butts and stop abusing freelancers!
Whats next, charging us to be top-rated?????
Apr 9, 2023 05:21:54 PM Edited Apr 9, 2023 05:24:52 PM by Mykola A
Yep. Possible charges: for toprated, monthly membership, to exist in client's search, for first position in client's search, to search one job, to search 10 jobs more, to search jobs for month... i have more "ideas" but will not post it here, im scared that greedy Upwork will apply all asap.
🙂
Apr 9, 2023 05:34:56 PM by David S
Can't wait until the platform uses internal AI to post juicy, well-written, highly-tailored job postings able to fool even the most cynical eye among us. Open-ended boosting on those for sure. The possibilities are endless.
Apr 10, 2023 12:07:38 PM by Jeanne H
Talk to the prosecutor that ChatGPT decided was the lawbreaker. Oh yes, the possibilities for similar "oopsies" that cost a man his reputation.
Apr 10, 2023 12:05:21 PM by Jeanne H
You need to read this and follow every link because you are not ready to apply for jobs. Currently, you will only attract scammers. You will learn about connects as you go through the Upwork Academy.
Your profile is a mishmash of skills including, nursing, data entry, etc. Learn how to promote yourself and focus on your real skills. All of your questions will be answered if only you will use it.
Apr 11, 2023 01:28:29 AM by Christine A
Sharon M wrote:Hi everyone how do I get connects to begin writing
You don't need connects yet - you need a portfolio of your writing before you start bidding on anything.
Apr 9, 2023 05:31:10 PM by Tim B
Add this to the fact that UpWorks' algorithym punishes you for not being active. If you go long stretches without enoguh work, your JSS drops. I went from 100% JSS to 90% as of today. This is despite the fact that EVERY rating I have is 5 star! It is simply because I have only done 2-3 jobs since Nov. 2022.
I pulled back from UpWork because of these shady practices. Now I am just preparing to leave altogether and I am warning existing clients to avoid UpWork. That is sad because over the years I have brought a ton of business to upwork in terms of both clients AND freelancers. But I can no longer recommend them in good conscience!
Apr 9, 2023 10:50:14 PM by Jonathan L
But what are all of your private ratings? Public feedback doesn't mean much to the JSS. It's possible some of your past jobs changed JSS time windows and now one or more jobs that had mediocre or negative private feedback now have more impact.
Apr 10, 2023 09:29:05 PM by Tim B
But thats part of the problem. Private feedback should NEVER be allowed. Does nobody believe anymore in the old saying "if ya cant say it their face don't say it at all"?
Private feedback lets clients screw freelancers over just to avoid paying for the work we do. I had exactly that happen. Fortunately, I was able to prove the clients' private feedback was a lie. Check out the article I just posted where I tell the full story.
The bottom line, UpWork does not care about their freelancers as long as they get paid in 5 different ways on every project.
Apr 12, 2023 10:17:46 PM by Tiffany S
Star ratings are completely irrelevant. Social norms, clients who want to placate, and even freelancers who ceaselessly harass clients to change feedback have rendered them entirely meaningless. Private feedback is Upwork's only shot at POSSIBLY getting accurate information.
Apr 10, 2023 09:37:08 AM by Christine A
Tim B wrote:Add this to the fact that UpWorks' algorithym punishes you for not being active. If you go long stretches without enoguh work, your JSS drops.
That isn't true.
Apr 10, 2023 09:35:43 PM by Tim B
Really? Then explain how my JSS dropped 10% between November 2022 and march 2023? I did just 2 projects during that time. On Nov. 1 I had a JSS of 100%. On March 15th it was 90%. If you look at my job history, you see that the last rating I got that was under 5 stars was 4.70 start in Feb 2021!.
So I get nothing but 5 star feedback, plust a smattering of clients that do not leave feedback (another thing the algorithm penalizes). Since there were no new project during this period of Nov until Mar, how else do you explain my JSS dropping.
Intentional or not, the JSS system does penalize freelancers for lack of activity and fort clients that do not give feedback.
Apr 11, 2023 01:27:06 AM by Christine A
Tim B wrote:Intentional or not, the JSS system does penalize freelancers for lack of activity and fort clients that do not give feedback.
False. Jonathan already tried to explain the JSS calculation window to you, so I won't try again. Since you're leaving Upwork anyway, I suppose it doesn't matter.
Apr 12, 2023 09:36:14 PM Edited Apr 12, 2023 09:39:36 PM by Tim B
Your (and Jonathans logic does not hold water. When a freelancer has nothing but 5 star feedback for nearly 3 years, there is zero logic to their JSS dropping so sharply as what I expereinced. The idea that 5 star ratings are worth less over time is rediculous. I could see if I had 5 star ratings further back, but lesser ratings in more recent times. But as I said, it has been more than 2 years since I had a rating that was not 5 stars.
And as for your comments about private feedback, you kind of prove my point for me. The idea that a client can leave private feedback that differs drastically from what the freelancer can see is unethical at best. It literally tells clients that it is perfectly acceptable to praise a freelancer in public while talking crap behind their back. I am sorry if you were not raised this way, but I was raised to believe that talking bad about someone behind their back is wrong. If you cannot say it to their face, you should not say it at all.
What is worse is not simply that clients CAN do this, but that it can have such a negative impact on honest, hard working freelancers.
My case where a client did this to me proves me right.
Now I challenge you Christine, you make a statement that my claims are "false". SO ok, you want to call me a liar..... prove it. You see, I can back up every single claim I make with evidence. Can you prove me wrong? You say it is false, but you do not back up your statements.
I don't lie.
I did not maintain Top-Rated status for more than 2 years by lying and not delivering high quality work.
In my 5 years on this platform, my JSS saw significant drops 3 times:
1 time when the client lied in private feedback (which I proved and had the feedabck removed and my JSS restored)
and 2 times when I went dormant, or semi-dormant for more than 3 months at a time. During tose periods, there was no other activity on my account. Good or bad. So how do the 5 start rating I have lose their impact on my JSS?
The only logical and fair reason for a freelancers JSS to decrease is when they do not get 5 star PUBLIC feedback.
That in fact is the underlying problem with the JSS algorithm I think. A JSS should be based 100% on performance and the client should be held accountable for any claims they make about a freelancer, good or bad. It really is that simple
Apr 12, 2023 10:15:59 PM Edited Apr 13, 2023 12:03:00 AM by Radia L
I've only had two jobs since mid 2022 and I see the JSS thing is 100%. I have a feeling that it might disappear soon though (and although I don't really care about an "Upwork success score").
As for talking in the face. I used to like it. You can see it in my 2013 feedback. But right now I prefer to keep quiet (and prevent future cooperation, or charge more) on clients I don't like. I don't say anything public anymore. I realize that my "honest feedback" could help other freelancers, but I guess I've changed, right now a few other considerations comes into account.
It also depends on the "severity" I guess, there are cases where public "honest feedback" is necessary I believe.
Apr 12, 2023 10:28:52 PM by Tiffany S
It seems like you've lost the thread.
Your assertion was that you are penalized for being inactive. That is false.
As you undoubtedly know since you wouldn't have been foolish enough to work on this platform for four years without learning the basics of how it functions, Upwork calculates your JSS in three separate ways: based on the past six months, the past year, and the past two years. Your JSS is the highest of the three.
You may personally believe that ratings aren't worth less as time passes. Upwork has decided and always made very clear that in terms of calculating JSS, ratings more than two years old aren't just worth less--they are worth nothing. They are simply not considered.
During the November-March period you mention, you had jobs fall out of each of those calculation windows. That can have a positive or negative impact, depending on what falls out.
In a perfect world, public feedback would be honest. It is not. Who do you propose should hold the client accountable (and how) when their 5-star lies cost other clients time and money?
Apr 14, 2023 01:08:37 PM by Jonathan L
Tiffany S wrote:As you undoubtedly know since you wouldn't have been foolish enough to work on this platform for four years without learning the basics of how it functions, Upwork calculates your JSS in three separate ways: based on the past six months, the past year, and the past two years. Your JSS is the highest of the three.
Missed one: the "trending" JSS, which is the average of the 3-month and 6-month windows.
Apr 14, 2023 01:17:25 PM by Jonathan L
Clients can leave falsely (overly) positive public feedback for a number of reasons. The most likely in my mind are:
And the BIGGEST reason: Clients don't realize that the "how likely are you to recommend this FL to someone else" question is actually a private rating and thus severely affects the freelancer's JSS.
Apr 10, 2023 12:22:30 AM Edited Apr 10, 2023 01:40:19 AM by Pradeep H
I totally agree!!! I'm going to go a step further and just scream how bad Upwork **Edited for Community Guidelines**. Constant scams and unverified payment postings. And I've had 2 jobs here in the past year. I'm not spending one dime on additional connects when it isn't working anyhow. And the jobs posted for a **Edited for Community Guidelines** load of work for $3 an hour. Spare me. I'm officially done with this joke of a site. Good luck.
Apr 10, 2023 09:41:30 PM by Tim B
In the last 3 weeks, I spent almost 200 connects bidding on projects. Not a single one even got me an interview or single client interaction. Bear in mind that 6 months ago, I was literally turning clients down because I was too busy on other projects, most of which I was getting on other platforms.
Besides, its not just about the JSS system. Its about the nickel and dime mentality upwork has adopted to force freelancers to spend more and more connects on getting a project, and thus keeping less of our earnings.
Customer aquisition are higher by far than all of the other 4 freelance networks I am now working on. With UpWork, I am not paying more to earn less.
No thank you.
Apr 11, 2023 11:02:27 PM by Li L
I also received responses from clients for my proposal some time ago.
But in the last 2 months, my proposal has not received any feedback.
Apr 12, 2023 02:34:15 AM Edited Apr 12, 2023 02:47:17 AM by Radia L
View to sent ratio are low in average, but yours is lower. Take a look here.
"View" happened before clients see what you wrote in the proposal (except the first two lines) and before they read what you wrote in your profile. So I strongly believe "view" is mainly affected by our proposal position, determined by the sorting algo. It's nearly out of our control.
On jobs that has 50+ proposals, it's bad news if the algo doesn't like ours. There are proofs some clients doesn't read more than 10 proposals. Here's something related.
Apr 15, 2023 08:21:54 AM by Tiffany S
I disagree. As a client, I use the mini-profile that appears in the listing and the first couple of lines to determine which proposals to open. That seems the only logical way to me, if you're not going to read them all.
Apr 12, 2023 09:44:09 PM by Tim B
The thing is, you can encourage clients to leave feedback. I ALWAYS ask cleints to leave feedback. In fact, my process is to ask 3 times over 2 weeks. I ask at the close of a project, 1 week and then 2 weeks after.
But in the end,it is truly up to the client to leave feedback or not. So freelancers JSS should never be negatively impacted by clients that refuse to provide feedback. No feedback does not equal a negative outcome any more than it indicates a positive one. outcome.
Apr 12, 2023 10:23:37 PM Edited Apr 12, 2023 11:29:53 PM by Radia L
I think you asking it 3 times is risky, it might annoy them and give a lower private feedback.
The accepted "norm" from what I read here is to ask client to close the job (which will force them to leave a feedback), once. I don't even do that.
Apr 12, 2023 10:33:43 PM by Tiffany S
This is the type of harassment that discourages clients from leaving honest feedback.
Apr 12, 2023 10:30:38 PM by Tiffany S
That sounds like a responsible business decision. It's puzzling that you chose to continue investing for so long when it's so clear that you and Upwork are not a good fit.
Apr 10, 2023 10:00:21 PM by Tim B
I am sharing most of an article I just published on one of my blogs. I am taking out the parts that suggest anyone leave UpWork because that is apparently against TOS. Of course, they will likely still remove this at best, ban me at worst. They must silence dissenters! Enjoy!
After 5 years as a Top-Rated freelancer, it is time for me to say goodbye to UpWork. In this article, I will tell you why. I know it is a bit different than our typical post, but I know that a lot of our clients are freelancers....So in this article I am going to highlight the predatory practices that have led me to this difficult decision.
The only somewhat good change they have made recently is the new fee structure. Where they once charged 20% for the first $500 a client spent with you, and 10% after that, they will be introducing a flat 10% fee in May 2023:
"Beginning May 3, 2023, we are moving all freelancers to a 10% fee rate and retiring our sliding scale fee structure. For those currently working on projects at the 5% level of our existing tier structure, we are pleased to honor those rates through the end of 2023."
The problem is that they minimized the positive impact of that new rate by creating a new contract initiaition fee on every contract:
"Beginning April 26, 2023, we're implementing a client contract initiation fee of up to $4.95 on Upwork's Marketplace and Project Catalog. This is a once-per-contract fee, assessed when clients make their first payment to a freelancer."
Sure this will still save freelancers money on larger contracts, but it is just one of many examples of UpWorks' "nickel and dime" mentality.
In the spirit of full transparency, you can read all about these changes here:
Double Fee Structure:
On top of the project fees above, UpWork also charges you to withdraw your earnings. This fee is based on what withdrawal method you choose, but averages around 3%. This amounts to a double fee. Like double taxation, this is just wrong. In fairness, this is not a new fee. Withdrawal fees have been a part of doing business on UpWork at least since I joined.
In the past, submitting a proposal cost freelancers a set number of connects, based upon specific criteria. At its base, this is still true. However, in late 2022, UpWork introduced a new "Auction style" bidding feature. While you are not required to bid and can submit proposals at the minimum connect rate, this puts you at a huge disadvantage to freelancers that are willing to purchase exorbitant amounts of connects to bid high amounts on projects. I have seen bids as high as 200 connects on some projects. This practice eats into a freelancer's revenue and essentially amounts to a "pay-to-play" mentality. It is unfair to all freelancers, especially those top-rated freelancers who like myself have conducted tens of thousands of dollars in business on UpWork. The only way for me to be on top of the list is now to pay more for that priveldge. Wait, I thought the Top-Rated badge was supposed tp eb the incentive for that? You know, you do better work, you get in front of the better clients. Silly me thinking it was actually performance based ranking!
One of the most recent new fees that UpWork has introduced is for the Availability Badge. This is a feature that has existed for a long time and it simply shows clients that you are available for immediate work. Up until a few weeks ago, this was free. Now UpWork is charging freelancers a varying number of connects to have this "badge". The amount of connects this badge costs varies from week to week based on some unpublished criteria. So essentially, whatever UpWork decides to charge in any given week.
As if all these new fees and changes is not bad enough, UpWork has further shown their lack or respect and appreciation for hard-working freelancer by introducing these things in silence, at least mostly. The new fees are being added to their support articles. But freelancers nor clients are notified of the changes. We do not get any kind of email, there is no real public announcement. They just implement the fee and quietly update their relevant KB articles. If they had any respect for freelancers, they would at the very least notify us via a mass email. They send me at least 4-5 emails a week, so why is it so hard to send one regarding new fees?
UpWork freelancers are rated based on their Job Success Score (JSS). This is a score that is built based on how well a freelancer performs on the platform. It is in theory a direct result of client feedback after a project ends. In theory, this is a great thing. In practice it has some flaws that UpWork has refused to even acknowledge let alone consider fixing.
One of the flaws is that if as a freelancer you go a long period of time without completing projects, your JSS score falls. For example, my JSS hovered consistently between 95-100% for a very long time. Then in November 2022, due to some personal life issues and business growth outside of UpWork, I started working less on UpWork. From November 2022 through March 2023, I worked on just 2 projects. My JSS which was 100% on November 1, has since dropped to 90%. This is despite that all of my recent projects where feedback was given were rated 5 stars. Essentially, you are punished for not doing enough work through UpWork.
Another flaw of the JSS algorithm is private feedback. About 2 years ago I had a sudden and unexpected JSS drop from 97% to 83%. This happened literally overnight. After speaking to UpWork support, I discovered that a client who had given me glowing PUBLIC feedback and rated me 5 stars had actually given me 1 star in private feedback and made a false claim that I ghosted him. Fortunately, I was able to prove that the project was in fact completed on time and on spec and this negative private feedback was removed. It was simply a client trying to get out of paying for the work I did.
Finally, one more flaw is that in addition to being penalized for inactivity, you get penalized when clients do not leave feedback at all. Look, I do manage to get most of my clients to leave feedback. But there are a few that don't. We all have those clients you just cannot convince to leave feedback. I usally do not work with thos ekinds of clients again, but in many cases, the damage has already been done.
Let's be honest, UpWork has always been somewhat of a "race to the bottom" platform. By this I mean it has always been one of those freelance platforms where clients go for the lowest rates. However, this was something that a good freelancer could overcome relatively easily by building a strong reputation and strong relationships with clients. However, the race has become much more intense. The number of low-paying jobs has increased significantly over the years, which makes it difficult for me to earn what I am worth. Rates that clients are happy to pay on other platforms are now too high for most clients on UpWork.
I used to get more contracts on UpWork than I could handle, frequently having to turn potential clients away because I had too much work. A great problem to have indeed! But now I get clients almost daily that want me to lower my rate by as much as 50%. More importantly, I get passed over by more and more clients because there are a hundred others that will do it for less.
I have more than 20 years of experience in my field. I am worth every penny of my rate. I am far from the most expensive, but far from the cheapest. You get what you pay for, and fortunately, most clients outside of UpWork know this. I am also a firm believer in the idea of charging what you are worth. Experience, great customer service, and quality work is what matters most to the best clients.
Over the years, Upwork has been a popular job platform for freelancers to find work and earn money. I spent more than 5 years building a very strong reputation and have gained a ton of really great clients from UpWork, so leaving has not been an easy decision to make, but after experiencing their recent changes and policies, it's clear that they are no longer prioritizing the needs of their freelancers. They have fallen prey to corporate greed and no longer value freelancers that helped them make UpWork such a great place for freelancers to work!
There was a time when I recommend UpWork to any freelancer that asked for suggestions on where to find work. Today, sadly, that is no longer true.
I sincerely hope that UpWork will one day realize the mistakes they are making and will once again begin to care about their freelancers as well as their cleints. If they do, I may consider returning to the platform. but for now, this is goodbye!
Apr 12, 2023 10:36:15 PM by Tiffany S
They must silence dissenters!
Not really. Many of us "dissent" all the time. I've twice literally advised freelancers in these forums to sue Upwork and the comments were not removed, let along triggering any kind of suspension.
Apr 15, 2023 06:10:45 AM Edited Apr 19, 2023 07:18:08 PM by Avery O
Here is some more evidence of my claims of how we are screwed. This screenshot show all of my recent proposals that I boosted. Between them all, I spent more than 400 connects, with 2 of them using half of those. The client only viewed 2 of them and almost all of them were outbid.
I get it, this is how auctions work. But this is my point. Yu have a better chance of getting a gig based on how much you can/will pay. Not based on your performance. It is THAT part of this that is a problem!
**edited for Community Guidelines**
Apr 15, 2023 06:31:42 AM Edited Apr 15, 2023 07:41:19 AM by Radia L
I can understand why you're ranting.
Upwork is changing its business model. It is now trying to profit! from the unlimited supply of freelancers.
They are not vetting the freelancers. They are opening the floodgates. 'High-quality freelancer marketplace', 'long-term relationships', are no longer in their vision.
Their move is understandable. Freelancer marketplaces are not profitable, so the business is trying to "innovate" something.
Now what to do in this situation? You can spend 400 connects and get 2 views, but if it's risking emotional breakdown you should do it "slower".
10-30% proposal view to sent ratio is now normal btw. When you send 10 proposals, be prepared if only 2 of them are seen.
Apr 15, 2023 08:26:27 AM by Tiffany S
"Upwork is changing its business model. It is now trying to profit! from the unlimited supply of freelancers.
They are not vetting the freelancers. They are opening the floodgates. 'High-quality freelancer marketplace', 'long-term relationships', are no longer in their vision."
There may be some truth to this. But, I think there's another variable that I'm not seeing discussed at all. Upwork's shifting business model toward advertising for and cultivating "long-term" clients will create a larger demand than in the past for newer, cheaper, lower-skilled freelancers. Having a large pool to offer to large corporations who may be hiring hundreds or 1000+ people is a selling point, and they'll need a deep bench to staff those lower-end jobs.
Highly skilled freelancers probably don't have much of a place in the new system.
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