Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

No Protection of Fixed Price Contracts

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
11 of 29

Haider I wrote:

Petra R wrote:

This kind of nonsense is why I do not do paid trials / paid tests.

Life's too short to end up with hassle over $ 10

 


I learned that there's no such thing as Fix Price Protection as long as the disputed money is lower than that of Arbitration.


That isn't strictly speaking true, because as long as you have $ 291 to throw into the arbitration pot if need be, you can call the client's bluff and walk away with the money in Escrow and the arbitration fee.


You also missed my main point: The red flags were there.

I guess the main reason I have never been in a situation where I NEEDED fixed price protection is because I walk away when I see those red flags waving merrily in my face.

Active Member
Haider I Member Since: Sep 6, 2017
12 of 29

Petra R wrote:
you can call the client's bluff and walk away with the money in Escrow and the arbitration fee.

So you mean if a Freelancer gets to arbitration and proves himself clean, then he'll get the disputed Money from the Escrow and also get back the fee of $291 paid for Arbitration?

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
13 of 29

Haider I wrote:

Petra R wrote:
you can call the client's bluff and walk away with the money in Escrow and the arbitration fee.

So you mean if a Freelancer gets to arbitration and proves himself clean, then he'll get the disputed Money from the Escrow and also get back the fee of $291 paid for Arbitration?


If you both decide to go to arbitration, then no, you don't get your fee back (once again, this process needs to be paid for - it isn't free!). You would only get your $10, and only if you win. But if you're willing to go to arbitration and the client isn't, then you win by default and you do get your fee back, along with your $10. You listed the facts yourself in your first post:

  • If one party pays for arbitration and the other does not, the dispute is found in the paying party’s favor. Escrow is released to the paying party and the arbitration fees are returned.
  • Arbitration fees are non-refundable once the case is filed with AAA.
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
14 of 29

Haider I wrote:

Petra R wrote:
you can call the client's bluff and walk away with the money in Escrow and the arbitration fee.

So you mean if a Freelancer gets to arbitration and proves himself clean, then he'll get the disputed Money from the Escrow and also get back the fee of $291 paid for Arbitration?


No, I am saying if the freelancer pays the arbitration fee and the client does not, the freelancer will get their money back and the funds in Escrow.

The second the freelancer has paid the arbitration fee on a contract worth less than $ 291, the client can only lose, if they pay the arbitration fee they lose money, and if they do not, they also lose the money in Escrow

So the client will not proceed with arbitration because it makes no sense.

 


Haider I wrote:

You said "Your Poor Judgment", so that means No New Clients should be accepted on the platform?


No, it obviously does not. This client first tried to pay you off the platform and then messed about with the trial contract.

 


Haider I wrote:

All the time you're mentioning $10, and I'm dragging you to the conversation of such things involving big amounts.



"Big amounts" meaning thousands then make arbitration worthwhile.

 

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
15 of 29

You are protected though. Decline the refund, and let him open a dispute. I sort of doubt he will. But if he does, stand your ground and demand payment or abitration. He won't go to arbitration. Not if he won't just pay the $10. 

 

I'm a little confused at how a client can cancel a contract once work has been submitted. It seems like that should not be possible at this point. 

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
16 of 29

Amanda L wrote:

 

I'm a little confused at how a client can cancel a contract once work has been submitted. It seems like that should not be possible at this point. 


It's because there are lots of unskilled freelancers who do shoddy work and/or try to pass off stolen work as their own (this is no reflection on the OP, just a general observation). So yes, clients do need to be able to cancel their projects and/or ask for a refund.

Active Member
Haider I Member Since: Sep 6, 2017
17 of 29

Amanda L wrote:

You are protected though. Decline the refund, and let him open a dispute. I sort of doubt he will. But if he does, stand your ground and demand payment or abitration. He won't go to arbitration. Not if he won't just pay the $10. 

I'm a little confused at how a client can cancel a contract once work has been submitted. It seems like that should not be possible at this point. 


Thanks, Amanda, for your response. I'm not protected though, just look at the facts and ground realities here, If I don't respond to Refund it's automatically going to the client after 7 days, and if I go to Arbitration and the Client didn't go to Arbitration, of course, I'm having my money back but keeping in mind that I'm spending $290 for Arbitration just to prove that I own $10.

 

And Yes a Client can easily Cancel a Contract even after work has been submitted.

Community Guru
Jonathan H Member Since: Jun 19, 2019
18 of 29

Haider I wrote:


Thanks, Amanda, for your response. I'm not protected though, just look at the facts and ground realities here, If I don't respond to Refund it's automatically going to the client after 7 days, and if I go to Arbitration and the Client didn't go to Arbitration, of course, I'm having my money back but keeping in mind that I'm spending $290 for Arbitration just to prove that I own $10.


You are protected though - to some degree. Yes you have to pay $290 but so does the client, so they must really want to sting you for that $10 if they are willing to pay $290 to do it!!!

 

yes your spending $290 just to prove you own $10

on the other hand your spending $$$'s on a computer to earn that $10 $$$'s on rent for a place to work from etc etc.

 

The obvious answer is dont do work for $10 - you are willing to use your time and resources to earn $10 but not willing to defend your $10 so why bother.

 

Refuse the dispute and see what happens youve not been asked to pay anything yet.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
19 of 29

Upwork does not want anybody to use the dispute or arbitration processes.

 

Not for $10 contracts, and not for $10,000 contracts.

 

Obviously Upwork loses money any time it needs to involve its personnel in squabbles between its users, and any time it needs to pay arbitration fees.

 

Upwork makes money when clients hire freelancers and pay them and Upwork can collect fees from the client payments.

 

Obviously a client who hires a freelancer to do work, and then receives that work, and then tries to manipulate Upwork's systems to avoid paying... That is obviously a bad client. I don't know if this type of bad client behavior is increasing... If somehow people are spreading the word about how to scam Upwork and scam freelancers and get work done for free... But if this type of thing gets out of hand, I won't be surprised if Upwork clamps down on it by restricting or removing some of the freedom clients have to file "disputes."

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
20 of 29

Preston H wrote:

 

Obviously a client who hires a freelancer to do work, and then receives that work, and then tries to manipulate Upwork's systems to avoid paying... That is obviously a bad client. I don't know if this type of bad client behavior is increasing... If somehow people are spreading the word about how to scam Upwork and scam freelancers and get work done for free... But if this type of thing gets out of hand, I won't be surprised if Upwork clamps down on it by restricting or removing some of the freedom clients have to file "disputes."


I don't see how you can be in a position of always declaring that people are "bad clients", when you have no way of knowing whether the work that they received was done with any degree of competence.

TOP SOLUTION AUTHORS
TOP KUDOED MEMBERS