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samvincent1096
Community Member

No Way to Refuse Refund

Hello, a client requested a refund yesterday on all the hourly work I’ve done for him over the past several weeks. In so doing, he has made outrageously untrue claims. I’m trying to refuse his requests, but when I click on “View Details”, the system allows me only to give a refund. How do I refuse the refunds to keep this guy from scamming me? Thanks.
ACCEPTED SOLUTION
AndreaG
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Samuel,

 

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with this client. I checked and it looks like your client has requested refunds for invoices dating back weeks, which are not in review. Please know, that clients are only able to dispute your hours the following week, during the Review period. After the review period they may still request a refund within 180 days of the payment, but you may choose not to reply to the request. 

 

Thanks!

~Andrea
Upwork

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9 REPLIES 9
AndreaG
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Samuel,

 

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with this client. I checked and it looks like your client has requested refunds for invoices dating back weeks, which are not in review. Please know, that clients are only able to dispute your hours the following week, during the Review period. After the review period they may still request a refund within 180 days of the payment, but you may choose not to reply to the request. 

 

Thanks!

~Andrea
Upwork

Thanks very much, Andrea. If I choose not to reply to the requests, can the client then force me into mediation or, worse, binding arbitration?


Samuel V wrote:

Thanks very much, Andrea. If I choose not to reply to the requests, can the client then force me into mediation or, worse, binding arbitration?


That's for escrow. You have saved yourself that hassle by doing hourly.

prestonhunter
Community Member

Samuel: What the Forum Moderator told you is good news.

 

You can just ignore the refund request.

 

Which is exactly what I recommend you do.

 

The following DOES NOT APPLY to the original poster, but is a general observation:

 

I strongly believe that when freelancers receive a refund request without any explanation about why the request is being sent, it is the result of a client simply clicking a button that says "Request Refund."

 

In such situations, the client doesn't have a reason for clicking the button. The client just thinks "Maybe I can get some free money this way."

They may be actively dismissing the freelancer as a human being. Or they might not be thinking things through. Either way, the client didn't have any sort of complaint about the freelancer's work, or any reason for basis for requesting a refund. So the request doesn't even deserve a reply.

In fact, if the freelancer replied in any way, even just to ask them about the refund request, the freelancer would probably just be embarrassing the client.

 

I know if I had a bratty little brother who sometimes did thoughtless things like clicking a "Request Refund" button... then he would much rather have that request be ignored than to be called out on such an action by a freelancer sending a message asking "Why did you request a refund?"

Regarding the original poster's situation:

Was it acceptable for the client to use a button that sent a refund request to the freelancer, while making outrageously untrue claims about the freelancer's work?

 

Answer: No.

 

This is not acceptable behavior.

 

For one thing, the client should not have made untrue claims. I am not sure what the client thought he was accomplishing by making such claims. The person who is going to read those claims is the freelancer himself. The freelancer knows what he did and did not do. So making such claims is pointless.

 

Also, there was PLENTY OF TIME for the client to object to the freelancer's work.

 

While the freelancer was working, the client could see screenshots showing the work and could read memos describing the work IN NEAR REAL TIME.

 

The client was able to constantly see how much time was being logged, how much money he would need to pay, etc.

 

The client had the ability to pause the contract and prevent further billing AT ANY TIME.


If the client had concerns or questions about the work, the client could have asked the freelancer about the work at any time.

 

And then, AFTER a week's work was done, the client had 5 full days within which he could dispute any time segments.

 

That would have been the time to ask the client to stop working or ask for a refund.

The client literally has NO LIMITS on when he can end a contract.

Literally for any reason.
Clients have total power over a contract.
There's no way to give a client more power than that.

If freelancer had used the word "Autumn" but the client prefers the word "Fall," the client could have fired the freelancer for that. No limits at all.

 

So to come back weeks later and ask for a refund?
No. It makes no sense.


Thankfully Upwork doesn't aquiesce to such a request. But it is unfortunate that the client made such a request at all.

 

It is like the person who goes to a restaurant and orders a slice of carrot cake. And eats it all. And then orders another slice. And eats it all. And then orders an entire cake to take home. And eats the entire cake (well, not ALL of it; he shared part of it with his mom).

 

And then three weeks later, the person goes back to the restaurant and DEMANDS that they refund him all of the money he paid for his meal and the slices of carrot cake and the carrot cake he bought to take home, while claiming that the carrot cake tasted HORRIBLE (!!!) and it gave him an STD.

 

No. That is simply not okay.

 

If you didn't like the carrot cake, why did you eat the entire slice?

And why did you order ANOTHER slice? (?!!)

And why on Earth did you then purchase a WHOLE CAKE to take home.

I don't belive you that you didn't like the cake. I don't believe you that the cake gave you an STD. Carrot cake doesn't give people STDs.

 

What kind of person does something like that?

Finally let me point out this:
If the client was wronged IN ANY WAY... Then he could come here to the Forum, whether he did so weeks ago OR EVEN NOW, and he could explain his situation. And if he had just cause for receiving a refund, then I would personally tell the freelancer that he SHOULD issue a refund.

 

Both freelancers and clients should be treated fairly on Upwork.

Clients shoud be treated ESPECIALLY fairly.
Clients are the most important Upwork users.

Upwork as a platform should cater to clients.

But that doesn't mean that preposterous behavior on behalf of a client is okay.

Clients asking for refunds seems to be an epidemic. Is the word out at how easy it is to get your job done for free on Upwork? I know refund requests are not new ... but it seems lately there's quite an uptick.

Virginia, I have no way of knowing if refund requests are on the rise, or if we are just hearing about it more, or what...

 

But the effect could be negative. Upwork could make changes that severely limit clients' ability to get refunds.

 

Or the general attitude among freelancers could evolve to one that prejudges all refund requests as invalid.

 

At this point I am about ready to declare that the refund functionality is something that should only be used by freelancers... that if clients ask for a refund, they are by definition abusing the system and behaving dishonestly. I am close to making this a blanket determination. Is that fair to the honest clients who have a legitimate reason?

georgepop2018
Community Member

Hi Samuel!

Hope your case is being solved and you don't need to refund the client for his false claims. I'm curious if you finalized the issue - and if you avoided being dragged into a binding arbitration?

I'm currently facing a similar issue, and my client is threatening to escalate past the mediation center. 

Would like to hear your input on this.

Cheers,

George


George P wrote:

Hope your case is being solved and you don't need to refund the client for his false claims. I'm curious if you finalized the issue - and if you avoided being dragged into a binding arbitration?


Samuel's situation was a simple refund request on an hourly contract, there was no mediation, and no chance of arbitration. 

 

You'd be better off to outline your own issue and ask any questions you have based on your own situation.

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