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mounirben79
Community Member

Nothing has changed since the upwork payed connects!

Nothing has changed since upwork adopted paid connects, too much bids for less job posting, did someone notice this or just me?
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Can't agree more! They should fix this problem urgently otherwise they will lose a bog part of their real freelancers!

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41 REPLIES 41
feed_my_eyes
Community Member

I think that the connects policy may have scared off some of the worst clients and freelancers, but I agree that it seems to have had no impact on the number of bids received by "good" clients. Perhaps Upwork's next move should be that freelancers can only buy 40 or so connects per month at 15 cents each, and if they want to buy more, the price increases.


Christine A wrote:
I think that the connects policy may have scared off some of the worst clients and freelancers, but I agree that it seems to have had no impact on the number of bids received by "good" clients. Perhaps Upwork's next move should be that freelancers can only buy 40 or so connects per month at 15 cents each, and if they want to buy more, the price increases.

Please no! The solution is not to charge more -- that's only giving Upwork ideas on how it can squeeze more money out of its users.

 

It's enough now! They are making enough money from both clients and freelancers, while the platform's not getting any better.

atreglia
Community Member


Hacene B wrote:
Nothing has changed since upwork adopted paid connects, too much bids for less job posting, did someone notice this or just me?

It's not just you.  I've noticed the same thing.  The brilliant idea of paid connects was just another bandaid for the real problem, which is excess baggage.  Apparently their massive market share of freelancers is such a high priority for them that they have lost sight of the real money makers here.  What a shame.

Can't agree more! They should fix this problem urgently otherwise they will lose a bog part of their real freelancers!
grimesr
Community Member

I maybe very cynical, but I still don't think the real motivation was to scare off bogus freelancers by charging for connects. After all, at most it would cost 6*$.15, less than a buck for each proposal. Bad freelancers can easily afford that cost.

Exactly!
florydev
Community Member


Robert G wrote:

I maybe very cynical, but I still don't think the real motivation was to scare off bogus freelancers by charging for connects. After all, at most it would cost 6*$.15, less than a buck for each proposal. Bad freelancers can easily afford that cost.


And good ones can't?


Robert G wrote:

I maybe very cynical, but I still don't think the real motivation was to scare off bogus freelancers by charging for connects. After all, at most it would cost 6*$.15, less than a buck for each proposal. Bad freelancers can easily afford that cost.


Robert, I'm not sure whether you were around when the change was announced or not, but if so you undoubtedly saw hundreds of freelancers wailing about how their only chance at making money was being destroyed by this impossible barrier.

 

Perhaps that's perception. Perhaps it's a reality for those who charge low rates and live in low-cost-of-living areas. Perhaps it's because the "less than a buck" adds up when (as many of these freelancers reported), they're landing one job in 50 (and for many, it's a $50 job).

shaun_downing
Community Member

i haven't noticed a change either, and quite frankly, finding work on UpWork is becoming more and more of a hassle.  i'm so tired of having to fill out proposals, write out a cover letter, detail my experience, make everything in line with the proposal and include all pertinent info - this process can take anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes for each proposal.  Not only that, then we have to use anywhere between 4 and 8 connects to be able to submit.

 

Then I submit a proposal, and I may not hear back on it for days, weeks, longer.  Then you just get a notice saying it was cancelled, or your proposal was denied, and UpWork still KEEPS the connects that were wasted.

 

So as a freelancer, I get to spend money to write a proposal, time to write the proposal, and there are no defined deadlines for a client to respond/make a hiring decision.  Not only that, there are no repurcussions for bad-faith actors on here, especially where the hiring side is concerned.  

 

Lately, I've had a lot of solicitations about my work, asking for examples of designs.  I take the time to talk with each prospective client, send examples of my work, and then never hear from them again.  I personally think it's just people that have no real idea how to do design or basic layout, want to do the job themselves or start a business, and they're just here pumping people for free information.  Has anyone else experienced this?  

 

Not only that, but it seems to have been my luck on here that the ONLY work I've received is from people who sought my profile and invited me to bid.  Even though I've taken great time, care, and cost writing over 50 proposals and having been on here for several months, I have NEVER had one proposal accepted.  Again, I'll also never get back the time, money, or other intangible costs that are associated with this.

 

If Upwork doesn't start to work on a model that is fair to both clients and freelancers, and ensures that neither side is going to be wasting a ton of time on bad-faith actors, then I don't see this as being a viable platform.  The 20% take is almost to the point of usury; obviously there's overhead, an infrastructure, IT, maintenance, employees, and they're technically providing a marketplace for freelancers and prospective employers.  HOWEVER, 20% is ridiculous!  I keep getting static from clients that "don't want to spend a lot of money".  But let's get real about this for a minute:

 

Upwork NEEDS to make clear to clients that freelancers are charged 20% right off the top.  So the "higher" rate that they see is not actually what the freelancer is getting paid (now, to be fair maybe they do this already; i've never been a client so i'm just assuming here).  Also, they NEED to get clients to understand that when they hire a freelancer, the cost is the cost.  They aren't paying extra withholdings, benefits, insurance, or any of the other costs that come with hiring a traditional employee. 

 

I'm real tired of these smaller businesses whining about freelance costs, while ignoring the great benefit to the employer.  The freelance market is NOT good for freelancers in its current state, rather it's an exploitation of the worker and removes us from any sort of protections, collective bargaining, etc.

 

So, will Upwork actually take steps to ensure that the process is fair to freelancers as well?  Clients may be providing the money, but if you want to retain reliable and competent talent, then Upwork needs to place a lot of effort in that area. 

You have summarized the whole situation.

SD,

 

Thank you.

As a very experienced UWer however, I would strongly urge all FLs to keep your Upwork expectations very, very low.

 

Work smart, work safe!


Shaun D wrote:

i haven't noticed a change either, and quite frankly, finding work on UpWork is becoming more and more of a hassle.  i'm so tired of having to fill out proposals, write out a cover letter, detail my experience, make everything in line with the proposal and include all pertinent info - this process can take anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes for each proposal.  Not only that, then we have to use anywhere between 4 and 8 connects to be able to submit.

 

Then I submit a proposal, and I may not hear back on it for days, weeks, longer.  Then you just get a notice saying it was cancelled, or your proposal was denied, and UpWork still KEEPS the connects that were wasted.

 

So as a freelancer, I get to spend money to write a proposal, time to write the proposal, and there are no defined deadlines for a client to respond/make a hiring decision.  Not only that, there are no repurcussions for bad-faith actors on here, especially where the hiring side is concerned.  

 

Lately, I've had a lot of solicitations about my work, asking for examples of designs.  I take the time to talk with each prospective client, send examples of my work, and then never hear from them again.  I personally think it's just people that have no real idea how to do design or basic layout, want to do the job themselves or start a business, and they're just here pumping people for free information.  Has anyone else experienced this?  

 

Not only that, but it seems to have been my luck on here that the ONLY work I've received is from people who sought my profile and invited me to bid.  Even though I've taken great time, care, and cost writing over 50 proposals and having been on here for several months, I have NEVER had one proposal accepted.  Again, I'll also never get back the time, money, or other intangible costs that are associated with this.

 

If Upwork doesn't start to work on a model that is fair to both clients and freelancers, and ensures that neither side is going to be wasting a ton of time on bad-faith actors, then I don't see this as being a viable platform.  The 20% take is almost to the point of usury; obviously there's overhead, an infrastructure, IT, maintenance, employees, and they're technically providing a marketplace for freelancers and prospective employers.  HOWEVER, 20% is ridiculous!  I keep getting static from clients that "don't want to spend a lot of money".  But let's get real about this for a minute:

 

Upwork NEEDS to make clear to clients that freelancers are charged 20% right off the top.  So the "higher" rate that they see is not actually what the freelancer is getting paid (now, to be fair maybe they do this already; i've never been a client so i'm just assuming here).  Also, they NEED to get clients to understand that when they hire a freelancer, the cost is the cost.  They aren't paying extra withholdings, benefits, insurance, or any of the other costs that come with hiring a traditional employee. 

 

I'm real tired of these smaller businesses whining about freelance costs, while ignoring the great benefit to the employer.  The freelance market is NOT good for freelancers in its current state, rather it's an exploitation of the worker and removes us from any sort of protections, collective bargaining, etc.

 

So, will Upwork actually take steps to ensure that the process is fair to freelancers as well?  Clients may be providing the money, but if you want to retain reliable and competent talent, then Upwork needs to place a lot of effort in that area. 


Shaun:

 

You're marketing yourself as a "sign professional".  Reading further on your profile I see you're a designer.  There are probably a few jobs on Upwork looking for this niche.  Try creating a more general profile with other capabilities and leave the "Sign Designer" as a specialized profile.  That may help you win more proposals.  

 

Also, no such thing as 8 connects.  I've seen between 1 and 6 connects.  At first most of my desired projects (copywriting) were 6 connects regardless of budget.  I'm now seeing more 2 and 4 connects projects so I'm finding Upwork may have changed their requirements.

Hi Robin,

 

Thanks for the info and all, but as I've said, I've had better luck with clients that find me.  Any proposals I've submitted (sign design, general design, or any of the other things I'm qualified for) simply go unanswered.

 

Do you have any comments about the rest of what I've said?  Even if I misspoke about "8 conects*, it still doesn't change the fact that Upwork places the burden on Freelancers and there are ZERO repurcussions for clients who act in bad faith.  

 

That is the crux of my argument; you can debate particulars about why I may or may not be getting denied on the 50+ proposals that I've sent (and I've attached relevant work, outlined my relevant experience to that position, etc.) --- it's very time consuming and there are NO restrictions on clients to answer within a certain time frame.


Shaun D wrote:

Hi Robin,

 

Thanks for the info and all, but as I've said, I've had better luck with clients that find me.  Any proposals I've submitted (sign design, general design, or any of the other things I'm qualified for) simply go unanswered.

 

Do you have any comments about the rest of what I've said?  Even if I misspoke about "8 conects*, it still doesn't change the fact that Upwork places the burden on Freelancers and there are ZERO repurcussions for clients who act in bad faith.  

 

That is the crux of my argument; you can debate particulars about why I may or may not be getting denied on the 50+ proposals that I've sent (and I've attached relevant work, outlined my relevant experience to that position, etc.) --- it's very time consuming and there are NO restrictions on clients to answer within a certain time frame.


Yes Upwork places the burden on freelancers.  It's a platform not the police.  They can verify payment and screen both clients and freelancers all day long but that won't stop the bad ones from joining.  We can't change the system but we can do a better job at flagging the clients that act in bad faith.  We also have the flexibility not to work with someone for any reason at all.  There are pluses and minuses to the freedom, but I'll take it anyday compared to working a 9 to 5 job I hate.  

 

It's your choice to stay or leave to find work somewhere else.  


Robin H wrote:


Yes Upwork places the burden on freelancers.  It's a platform not the police.  They can verify payment and screen both clients and freelancers all day long but that won't stop the bad ones from joining.  We can't change the system but we can do a better job at flagging the clients that act in bad faith.  We also have the flexibility not to work with someone for any reason at all.  There are pluses and minuses to the freedom, but I'll take it anyday compared to working a 9 to 5 job I hate.  

 

It's your choice to stay or leave to find work somewhere else.  


It's a little disheartening that every time a freelancer brings up a valid concern about Upwork, someone else posts this. Yes, it's very true that if we don't like it, we can leave, but why shouldn't we call them out when there are good reasons to do so?

 

I agree in that I'd also choose this way of freelancing over a 9 to 5 -- and I'm always going to be very grateful to Upwork for providing this site. But that doesn't mean we should keep quiet when a platform that started out so well gets worse and worse while charging its users more and more money -- with the pretense of doing so for our benefit!

 

At what point does it become enough?

Thank you Isabelle! Exactly, why is there a bunch of "you can use Upwork or leave" posts. Absolutely uncalled for.


Tom Z wrote:

Thank you Isabelle! Exactly, why is there a bunch of "you can use Upwork or leave" posts. Absolutely uncalled for.


Except that's the truth of the matter. The OPs are always asking Upwork to change. Upwork is going to run its own business how they see fit. 

 

Now, if the posts are asking how to use Upwork to its max workability and productivity, then you get different responses. But just posts complaining about how people don't like Upwork? Then leave. If I went to a restaurant and didn't like the food, I wouldn't think to tell the chef to change the menu. I'd just go somewhere else where I do like the food. You don't like Upwork's services, then go to another platform that has the services you do like. No one is forcing you to be here. 

 

Sure, you can leave feedback to Upwork about things that could be changed, but remember that Upwork is a business. They will only implement changes that improve their profitability. So if you suggestion is just about how it would work better for you, then it's probably a waste of time. There are too many fields and too many different kinds of freelancers, clients, and job needs to make one thing better for one freelancer. And as you can see from the posts here, all the FLs disagree on what would be best for them. 

 

Learn to use Upwork's services in a way that produces max profit for you. And if you don't like their services or want different services, sure, you can suggest it, but it's probably more likely that you'll need to go look for that elsewhere. 

 

Also, it's a public community forum. It's not a support group. If you want sugar coating, I can recommend some online support groups that could be helpful. 


Amanda L wrote:

Tom Z wrote:

Thank you Isabelle! Exactly, why is there a bunch of "you can use Upwork or leave" posts. Absolutely uncalled for.


Except that's the truth of the matter. The OPs are always asking Upwork to change. Upwork is going to run its own business how they see fit. 

 

Now, if the posts are asking how to use Upwork to its max workability and productivity, then you get different responses. But just posts complaining about how people don't like Upwork? Then leave. If I went to a restaurant and didn't like the food, I wouldn't think to tell the chef to change the menu. I'd just go somewhere else where I do like the food. You don't like Upwork's services, then go to another platform that has the services you do like. No one is forcing you to be here. 

 

Sure, you can leave feedback to Upwork about things that could be changed, but remember that Upwork is a business. They will only implement changes that improve their profitability. So if you suggestion is just about how it would work better for you, then it's probably a waste of time. There are too many fields and too many different kinds of freelancers, clients, and job needs to make one thing better for one freelancer. And as you can see from the posts here, all the FLs disagree on what would be best for them. 

 

Learn to use Upwork's services in a way that produces max profit for you. And if you don't like their services or want different services, sure, you can suggest it, but it's probably more likely that you'll need to go look for that elsewhere. 

 

Also, it's a public community forum. It's not a support group. If you want sugar coating, I can recommend some online support groups that could be helpful. 


What you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

 

We don't always see how Upwork's features, tweaks, bugs, etc. affect users because only a small number of them come to the forums to complain about them. There are plenty of good clients and very successful freelancers (like you) who quietly quit Upwork in the past few months and year simply because they couldn't be bothered with it anymore. 

 

Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me especially because it seems that the "riffraff" didn't leave with them -- it honestly, honestly feels like things are getting worse here. I will keep posting (complaining) as long as Upwork comes up with further money-making tactics while not fixing fundamental issues with its service.


Isabelle Anne A wrote:


What you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

 

We don't always see how Upwork's features, tweaks, bugs, etc. affect users because only a small number of them come to the forums to complain about them. There are plenty of good clients and very successful freelancers (like you) who quietly quit Upwork in the past few months and year simply because they couldn't be bothered with it anymore. 

 

Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me especially because it seems that the "riffraff" didn't leave with them -- it honestly, honestly feels like things are getting worse here. I will keep posting (complaining) as long as Upwork comes up with further money-making tactics while not fixing fundamental issues with its service.


Isabelle:

 

You have every right to complain on the community all day long.  You can reply to each post that reads "if you don't like Upwork, just leave" with your opinions.  What I'm not seeing from your complaints are real actionable things Upwork can do to make things better.  Identify the "fundamental issues with its service" and come up with suggestions.  Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

 

I find people who complain are dependent on Upwork for their salary.   This shouldn't be the case.  A successful freelancer works on and off this platform, others and directly with clients.  

 

I wish you tons of luck in your freelance career. 


Robin H wrote:

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

 

Excellent suggestion!  But where are these groups?

 

 


Robin H wrote:


Isabelle:

 

You have every right to complain on the community all day long.  You can reply to each post that reads "if you don't like Upwork, just leave" with your opinions. What I'm not seeing from your complaints are real actionable things Upwork can do to make things better.  Identify the "fundamental issues with its service" and come up with suggestions. 

 

If you've really been through all the messages I've posted on these forums, you wouldn't say this. In the past 4 years (at least), I've posted suggestions and identified the problem numerous times. Just because I don't repeat them in this thread doesn't mean I haven't. And if another freelancer suggests something / identifies the problem, I kudo the post to show my support instead of clogging up the thread in question with repeat posts. I've made my own threads about certain issues, which nothing came out of even though other freelancers agreed with me. I've seen several more eloquent freelancers post helpful, insightful threads about Upwork, but those -- like most other valid discussions -- just faded away. (Browse through the forums, and you'll see.) So, naturally, I'll often resort to complaining.

 

What I don't appreciate is when certain freelancers deride those who post negative things about Upwork's system, yet when something Upwork does affects them, then they have no problem complaining themselves. I've seen this so many times here, and the hypocrisy is a little sad.

 

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

 

I would absolutely love to, but unless I'm mistaken, you have to be invited to participate in these things. In many of the Announcement threads about new features, etc., Upwork always claims it consults freelancers before rolling out said changes, but I've never been part of that group. If the person in charge of that is reading this, please sign me up!

 

I find people who complain are dependent on Upwork for their salary.   This shouldn't be the case.  A successful freelancer works on and off this platform, others and directly with clients.  

 

For most of my income, yes. It's not ideal or clever, I'm well aware, but I've freely admitted in other threads that Upwork has really helped my freelancing career and I'll stick with it until I have no choice left. That doesn't mean I support it when the company acts crazy or try to shut others down who bring up reasonable concerns about the way it works.


Isabelle Anne A wrote:

 

What I don't appreciate is when certain freelancers deride those who post negative things about Upwork's system, yet when something Upwork does affects them, then they have no problem complaining themselves. I've seen this so many times here, and the hypocrisy is a little sad.

 

U.S. Only jobs come to mind.  Then all of a sudden the "If you don't like it leave" snark suddenly stopped.  How odd.

 

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

I would absolutely love to, but unless I'm mistaken, you have to be invited to participate in these things. In many of the Announcement threads about new features, etc., Upwork always claims it consults freelancers before rolling out said changes, but I've never been part of that group. If the person in charge of that is reading this, please sign me up!

 

Seriously?  Invited?  Well, then what's the sense of making suggestions here?  Or, better yet, criticizing someone for not making suggestions.

 

 

 


Anna T wrote:

Isabelle Anne A wrote:

 

What I don't appreciate is when certain freelancers deride those who post negative things about Upwork's system, yet when something Upwork does affects them, then they have no problem complaining themselves. I've seen this so many times here, and the hypocrisy is a little sad.

 

U.S. Only jobs come to mind.  Then all of a sudden the "If you don't like it leave" snark suddenly stopped.  How odd.

 

Exactly, and that's just one of many others. Another one that I distinctly remember is the saga about putting maps on American freelancers' profiles. At the time I didn't see what the big deal was and was wondering what everyone was complaining about. But that's because it didn't affect me at all, so I took some time to read through the complaints and began to understand what they were upset about. I think maps have since disappeared after the complaints ... well, haven't seen them recently.

 

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

I would absolutely love to, but unless I'm mistaken, you have to be invited to participate in these things. In many of the Announcement threads about new features, etc., Upwork always claims it consults freelancers before rolling out said changes, but I've never been part of that group. If the person in charge of that is reading this, please sign me up!

 

Seriously?  Invited?  Well, then what's the sense of making suggestions here?  Or, better yet, criticizing someone for not making suggestions.

 

That is, if I'm not mistaken. There were a couple of freelancers (off the forums) who mentioned that they are sometimes contacted (I'm not sure how) to participate in surveys / focus group type things that Upwork uses to assess their upcoming features, changes, etc. I'm unsure about how it works though. I do recall a few of us asked to be included in these "consultations" sometime ago, but it doesn't work that way. Like I said, if I'm wrong then I'd really like to be included. (Especially as someone who's been here since oDesk!)

 

And yeah, a lot of great freelancers have just been wasting their time and energy posting well-thought-out feedback and insights that are widely supported. It seems that Upwork ignores a lot of it, which is why so many people (especially me) just come here to complain now. 



hat you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

So your overall issue is not so much that someone is complaining about someone else complaining but that they throw in the "if you don't like it you can leave".

 

Would it matter if they said...this is the way things are, you can complain about it if you want to, that might get them to change things, but in the mean time this is how it is...if you want to survive you have to find a way to live with it.

 

I don't think Amanda's post was analogous at all.  She was talking about something that specifically happened to her not some policy they applied to all of us.  


Mark F wrote:


hat you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

So your overall issue is not so much that someone is complaining about someone else complaining but that they throw in the "if you don't like it you can leave".

 

Would it matter if they said...this is the way things are, you can complain about it if you want to, that might get them to change things, but in the mean time this is how it is...if you want to survive you have to find a way to live with it.

 

Admittedly, that particular phrasing especially grates me, but for me the overall issue is that I'll bet most people who complain in the forums know/understand that "if they don't like it, they can leave." It's a pretty obvious statement that I feel is simply used to ridicule them and invalidate their concerns. That's just my opinion. If the people who post such statements or similar truly believe that by saying those words they're sharing insightful information, then I apologize. Carry on.

 

I don't think Amanda's post was analogous at all.  She was talking about something that specifically happened to her not some policy they applied to all of us.  

 

I specifically said her complaint is not similar to that of the OP. I do, however, believe that the TS thing affects most if not all of us. They should not be allowed to meddle with clients' and freelancers' interactions, as both the latter have made it clear that TSs' involvement creates unnecessary complications. 

 

The point is that she has her complaints, I have mine, another freelancer has theirs ... but that doesn't mean someone's complaint is necessarily more valid than anyone else's, or that some (perfectly reasonable) complaints deserve to be attacked/dismissed while the critics themselves are free to complain away.

Except that I didn't ask Upwork to change their policies. I was asking  a moderator to assist me with CS because I had put in numerous requests to opt out of the TS program on my upgraded job post. So I wasn't asking them to change procedures. They allow people to opt out, I had requested such, and they continued to mess with my invites and hires. It is not analogous in the least. Asking for assistance to enforce their existing policy is not the same as coming here day in and day out asking them to change their business model. 

 

 


Isabelle Anne A wrote:

Amanda L wrote:

Tom Z wrote:

Thank you Isabelle! Exactly, why is there a bunch of "you can use Upwork or leave" posts. Absolutely uncalled for.


Except that's the truth of the matter. The OPs are always asking Upwork to change. Upwork is going to run its own business how they see fit. 

 

Now, if the posts are asking how to use Upwork to its max workability and productivity, then you get different responses. But just posts complaining about how people don't like Upwork? Then leave. If I went to a restaurant and didn't like the food, I wouldn't think to tell the chef to change the menu. I'd just go somewhere else where I do like the food. You don't like Upwork's services, then go to another platform that has the services you do like. No one is forcing you to be here. 

 

Sure, you can leave feedback to Upwork about things that could be changed, but remember that Upwork is a business. They will only implement changes that improve their profitability. So if you suggestion is just about how it would work better for you, then it's probably a waste of time. There are too many fields and too many different kinds of freelancers, clients, and job needs to make one thing better for one freelancer. And as you can see from the posts here, all the FLs disagree on what would be best for them. 

 

Learn to use Upwork's services in a way that produces max profit for you. And if you don't like their services or want different services, sure, you can suggest it, but it's probably more likely that you'll need to go look for that elsewhere. 

 

Also, it's a public community forum. It's not a support group. If you want sugar coating, I can recommend some online support groups that could be helpful. 


What you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

 

We don't always see how Upwork's features, tweaks, bugs, etc. affect users because only a small number of them come to the forums to complain about them. There are plenty of good clients and very successful freelancers (like you) who quietly quit Upwork in the past few months and year simply because they couldn't be bothered with it anymore. 

 

Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me especially because it seems that the "riffraff" didn't leave with them -- it honestly, honestly feels like things are getting worse here. I will keep posting (complaining) as long as Upwork comes up with further money-making tactics while not fixing fundamental issues with its service.


You might also want to be careful about telling people with client accounts to just leave then. Most of my own work comes from my own business outside of Upwork. I'm bringing money here to give work to FLs. You should be grateful that so many clients do hash it out with UW to follow their own policies so they don't screw up our hiring and make it so no one can get work. 


Amanda L wrote:


You might also want to be careful about telling people with client accounts to just leave then. Most of my own work comes from my own business outside of Upwork. I'm bringing money here to give work to FLs. You should be grateful that so many clients do hash it out with UW to follow their own policies so they don't screw up our hiring and make it so no one can get work. 


I did absolutely no such thing, and if that's the way it came across, let me make it clear that that was not my intention. I was simply saying that your own words can be applied to your complaints as well -- which were valid by the way, which is why I went to post there. I 100% want clients to post about their problems here, especially because my own clients have privately expressed their issues about TSs, the hiring process, and other things. That's also why I mentioned so many (good) users are quietly leaving without saying anything about it in the forums.

 

And you are right that your and the OP's issues are not analogous, which is why I didn't say they're similar. What I was trying to say (which apparently I didn't express very well) is that each of us has our complaints about Upwork -- some of them only affect a certain type of user, while some affect various types of users. There is no need to belittle the ones that don't affect you, especially when it's clear that there's more than one person who feels that way. 

 

(I am also not saying that let's flood the forums with minor complaints, but what the OP and others expressed concern about is something I've also been wondering about and that others have mentioned in the past few months.)


Isabelle Anne A wrote:

Amanda L wrote:


You might also want to be careful about telling people with client accounts to just leave then. Most of my own work comes from my own business outside of Upwork. I'm bringing money here to give work to FLs. You should be grateful that so many clients do hash it out with UW to follow their own policies so they don't screw up our hiring and make it so no one can get work. 


I did absolutely no such thing, and if that's the way it came across, let me make it clear that that was not my intention. I was simply saying that your own words can be applied to your complaints as well -- which were valid by the way, which is why I went to post there. I 100% want clients to post about their problems here, especially because my own clients have privately expressed their issues about TSs, the hiring process, and other things. That's also why I mentioned so many (good) users are quietly leaving without saying anything about it in the forums.

 

And you are right that your and the OP's issues are not analogous, which is why I didn't say they're similar. What I was trying to say (which apparently I didn't express very well) is that each of us has our complaints about Upwork -- some of them only affect a certain type of user, while some affect various types of users. There is no need to belittle the ones that don't affect you, especially when it's clear that there's more than one person who feels that way. 

 

(I am also not saying that let's flood the forums with minor complaints, but what the OP and others expressed concern about is something I've also been wondering about and that others have mentioned in the past few months.)


Isabelle, let me just be clear - my problem is not with complaints or suggestions. I quite enjoy when people come with suggestions of how the system might work to make them (and us all) more profitable - and discussion ensues. 

 

What I take issue with, and of course the OPs are free to complain about whatever they want, but what grates me is people who come to complain that they can't find work so UW should fix it. This is very often the true crux of complaints here, IMO. Complaints coming from FLs who expect UW to act like their employer or a temp agency are useless because that's not what UW is. So suggesting UW change to be that is not something I support. And so my response is: if that is what you are looking for, then you are on the wrong site. 

 

I have no qualms answering people's questions about how to strengthen profiles and cover letters/proposals. Of how to best vet jobs and clients. About how to use UW better and more efficiently. My own complaint was to say: this program would work so much better and be more profitable if they actually just asked the client 2-3 questions before inviting random people. That would mean better, more profitable hires, wouldn't really take any more time or resource; how long does it take to send 2-3 canned questions to the client for the TS to review to use in their inviting? A few seconds? I digress.

 

I do think it's fair to recommend to some people that they will not have much chance here on UW. That's not meant to be harsh or mean. It's actually an act of compassion to tell people the harsh reality that freelancing is not easy, and it's not going to get any easier. And no one is going to hand things to them - which, for me, I see a lot of entitlement in many of these complaints. 

 

Maybe we have to agree to disagree. You're free to complain; I'm free to be brutally honest. The world goes round. We're both making money, so it's all good. 🙂 


Amanda L wrote:

Maybe we have to agree to disagree. You're free to complain; I'm free to be brutally honest. The world goes round. We're both making money, so it's all good. 🙂 


Let's ... for the record, I do agree with some of what you say + I have more good than bad things to say about Upwork (obviously, otherwise I wouldn't still be on the site). I'm just not prepared to ignore their ongoing issues & unjustifiable changes they make. Eventually Upwork will get worse and I'll leave; they'll stay the same and I'll stay; or they'll get better and I'll become their avid proponent 🙂 Guess we'll just have to see what happens!

 


Tiffany S wrote:

There is a world of difference between that and the many people who say, "With paid connects, I cannot make any money and haven't had any income for XX weeks and my family is starving and the best solution I can come up with is to hang around in the forum complaining about it rather than try to find a way to make money."


100%, I do not support those kinds of complaints -- but in any case, those are clearly not the ones I'm referring to. There are plenty of people with reasonable complaints (even if repetitive) who get shut down as soon as they come on the forums. Anyway, I've made my opinions here as clear as I can, as has everyone else I think, so I don't really have anything further to say.


Isabelle Anne A wrote:

100%, I do not support those kinds of complaints -- but in any case, those are clearly not the ones I'm referring to. There are plenty of people with reasonable complaints (even if repetitive) who get shut down as soon as they come on the forums. Anyway, I've made my opinions here as clear as I can, as has everyone else I think, so I don't really have anything further to say.


To me it usually appears to be a matter of presentation. I don't often see people who raise concerns in a reasonable way shut down that way. It seems to me that usually occurs under specific circumstances such as:

 

- A person who has been on Upwork for one month and never had a job, with little outside freelancing experience comes to the forum and makes a big categorical declaration about what Upwork is doing wrong and how it's bad for all freelancers

- A freelancer makes dramatic statements about how Upwork is going to go out of business because it isn't doing things the way he/she would prefer

- A freelancer declares that Upwork is "destroying my ability to make a living" or "ruining the freelancing industry" or some other ridiculously overbroad drama with nothing offered in support of that conclusion.


Isabelle Anne A wrote:


What you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 The critical difference is that the talent specialists were an annoyance. Yes, they were bad for business, but they didn't overnight make Upwork categorically unprofitable for the freelancers who complained. In that case, it made sense to stay here and say, "Hey, it would be better if you didn't do this." The complaining freelancers were making profits and hoping to make a specific improvement.

 

There is a world of difference between that and the many people who say, "With paid connects, I cannot make any money and haven't had any income for XX weeks and my family is starving and the best solution I can come up with is to hang around in the forum complaining about it rather than try to find a way to make money."


Tom Z wrote:

Thank you Isabelle! Exactly, why is there a bunch of "you can use Upwork or leave" posts. Absolutely uncalled for.


Tom, if you were in a fish market and a customer came in looking for steak, would you ratify the customer's complaints and suggest that he lobby management and go out and get a petition started up to compel the store to sell beef, or would you tell him that this particular store did not have what he wanted and he should look elsewhere?

 

Probably in your book it would be uncalled for to save him time and money by directing him to a more suitable option?

Upwork is not a restaurant sweetie, there's no replacement for it. So I find your analogy to a restaurant inaccurate and misleading. Can you name an XYZ alternative that has as much traction as Upwork? You see, this is why we need to voice feedback more because how else would execs at Upwork know what to do to improve the system? And yes, if the customer did want steak, and I only sold fish, if enough customers ask me to make steak, guess what, I will make steak! lol. And listen guys, I am forever grateful to Upwork for the continuing journey, that is why I'm spending time to read and provide my honest feedback. This is all constructive feedback.


Tom Z wrote:

Upwork is not a restaurant sweetie, there's no replacement for it. So I find your analogy to a restaurant inaccurate and misleading. Can you name an XYZ alternative that has as much traction as Upwork? You see, this is why we need to voice feedback more because how else would execs at Upwork know what to do to improve the system? And yes, if the customer did want steak, and I only sold fish, if enough customers ask me to make steak, guess what, I will make steak! lol. And listen guys, I am forever grateful to Upwork for the continuing journey, that is why I'm spending time to read and provide my honest feedback. This is all constructive feedback.


If you're looking for an Upwork replica, perhaps not.

 

There are quite a few other freelancing platforms that are focused in one industry, or that have experience requirements, or that are just smaller.

 

But, that hardly matters at all, because of course freelancing platforms are just one tiny slice of the possible ways that a person can secure freelancing work.

 

There are referral networks, job board postings, working social networks like LinkedIn, building a website and attaching Google ads, creating a Facebook page and creating value and boosting content to draw in prospective clients, advertising in trade journals or other publications in the industry you're targeting, cold emailing, cold calling, joining the Chamber of Commerce, hosting a free informational event, referrals from past clients and colleagues, referrals from random people you come in contact with in daily life, building direct relationships with agencies...just to name the first few options that spring to mind.

 

And, just to clear things up, "sweetie"--a fish market is not a restaurant. But, leaving that aside, would you suggest that the customer who wanted steak sit forlornly in your lobby starving to death until you started offering steak? Because that is precisely what the freelancers proclaiming that they can't make any money at all anymore and can't afford to buy connects but are devoting their time to complaining here rather than seeking other opportunities are doing.

 

If you never got around to selling steak, or it took two years for you to make that shift, would you suggest that those people sit around complaining to you until they literally starved to death?


Tom Z wrote:

Upwork is not a restaurant sweetie, there's no replacement for it. So I find your analogy to a 


That is not right, you are being unnecessarily condescending and you should apologize. 


Mark F wrote:

Tom Z wrote:

Upwork is not a restaurant sweetie, there's no replacement for it. So I find your analogy to a 


That is not right, you are being unnecessarily condescending and you should apologize. 


Mark, if you know anything about the South, we can just say "bless his little heart." Smiley LOL

I completely agree about telling clients upfront about Upwork's cut.

 

However, how do you expect to get business if you don't go looking for work. I would be thrilled if a large number of clients sent me unsolicited requests for proposals, but they don't. I have to work to get work. Yes, I don't like writing proposals, and yes I get a small percentage of work for my proposals, but how else do you expect to get clients to know anything about you. If you didn't have Upwork, how would you get  your name out into the world?

 

There are a number of things I don't like about Upwork, but I think putting the blame on Upwork to make you market yourself is unfair. Every time I write a new proposal, I find a twist on how I would have written the previous proposal. I try to make the process as painless as possible, but it takes work.

 

I would suggest creating a method to reduce the time to write proposals yet make them personal and specific to each project. In the long run, if you have skills that are valuable, a client will find you. IMHO.

Shaun D - you said it better than I could. You're not the only one bro. I know people who are seriously rethinking their career on Upwork. Like you said, there's more and more clients that just want free info. They complain about the hourly rate when they forget that they aren't paying the taxes, benefits as they would on a W2 employee. So say the hourly rate is $100 - after Upwork's 20%, and government taxes, honestly the worker only gets back probably $60/hr, after health care, insurance, probably $45.

 

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