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Nothing has changed since the upwork payed connects!

Community Leader
Anna T Member Since: Jan 27, 2017
21 of 42

Robin H wrote:

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

 

Excellent suggestion!  But where are these groups?

 

 

Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
22 of 42

Robin H wrote:


Isabelle:

 

You have every right to complain on the community all day long.  You can reply to each post that reads "if you don't like Upwork, just leave" with your opinions. What I'm not seeing from your complaints are real actionable things Upwork can do to make things better.  Identify the "fundamental issues with its service" and come up with suggestions. 

 

If you've really been through all the messages I've posted on these forums, you wouldn't say this. In the past 4 years (at least), I've posted suggestions and identified the problem numerous times. Just because I don't repeat them in this thread doesn't mean I haven't. And if another freelancer suggests something / identifies the problem, I kudo the post to show my support instead of clogging up the thread in question with repeat posts. I've made my own threads about certain issues, which nothing came out of even though other freelancers agreed with me. I've seen several more eloquent freelancers post helpful, insightful threads about Upwork, but those -- like most other valid discussions -- just faded away. (Browse through the forums, and you'll see.) So, naturally, I'll often resort to complaining.

 

What I don't appreciate is when certain freelancers deride those who post negative things about Upwork's system, yet when something Upwork does affects them, then they have no problem complaining themselves. I've seen this so many times here, and the hypocrisy is a little sad.

 

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

 

I would absolutely love to, but unless I'm mistaken, you have to be invited to participate in these things. In many of the Announcement threads about new features, etc., Upwork always claims it consults freelancers before rolling out said changes, but I've never been part of that group. If the person in charge of that is reading this, please sign me up!

 

I find people who complain are dependent on Upwork for their salary.   This shouldn't be the case.  A successful freelancer works on and off this platform, others and directly with clients.  

 

For most of my income, yes. It's not ideal or clever, I'm well aware, but I've freely admitted in other threads that Upwork has really helped my freelancing career and I'll stick with it until I have no choice left. That doesn't mean I support it when the company acts crazy or try to shut others down who bring up reasonable concerns about the way it works.

Community Leader
Anna T Member Since: Jan 27, 2017
23 of 42

Isabelle Anne A wrote:

 

What I don't appreciate is when certain freelancers deride those who post negative things about Upwork's system, yet when something Upwork does affects them, then they have no problem complaining themselves. I've seen this so many times here, and the hypocrisy is a little sad.

 

U.S. Only jobs come to mind.  Then all of a sudden the "If you don't like it leave" snark suddenly stopped.  How odd.

 

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

I would absolutely love to, but unless I'm mistaken, you have to be invited to participate in these things. In many of the Announcement threads about new features, etc., Upwork always claims it consults freelancers before rolling out said changes, but I've never been part of that group. If the person in charge of that is reading this, please sign me up!

 

Seriously?  Invited?  Well, then what's the sense of making suggestions here?  Or, better yet, criticizing someone for not making suggestions.

 

 

 

Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
24 of 42

Anna T wrote:

Isabelle Anne A wrote:

 

What I don't appreciate is when certain freelancers deride those who post negative things about Upwork's system, yet when something Upwork does affects them, then they have no problem complaining themselves. I've seen this so many times here, and the hypocrisy is a little sad.

 

U.S. Only jobs come to mind.  Then all of a sudden the "If you don't like it leave" snark suddenly stopped.  How odd.

 

Exactly, and that's just one of many others. Another one that I distinctly remember is the saga about putting maps on American freelancers' profiles. At the time I didn't see what the big deal was and was wondering what everyone was complaining about. But that's because it didn't affect me at all, so I took some time to read through the complaints and began to understand what they were upset about. I think maps have since disappeared after the complaints ... well, haven't seen them recently.

 

Volunteer to be part of the groups that ask for freelancer opinions.  

I would absolutely love to, but unless I'm mistaken, you have to be invited to participate in these things. In many of the Announcement threads about new features, etc., Upwork always claims it consults freelancers before rolling out said changes, but I've never been part of that group. If the person in charge of that is reading this, please sign me up!

 

Seriously?  Invited?  Well, then what's the sense of making suggestions here?  Or, better yet, criticizing someone for not making suggestions.

 

That is, if I'm not mistaken. There were a couple of freelancers (off the forums) who mentioned that they are sometimes contacted (I'm not sure how) to participate in surveys / focus group type things that Upwork uses to assess their upcoming features, changes, etc. I'm unsure about how it works though. I do recall a few of us asked to be included in these "consultations" sometime ago, but it doesn't work that way. Like I said, if I'm wrong then I'd really like to be included. (Especially as someone who's been here since oDesk!)

 

And yeah, a lot of great freelancers have just been wasting their time and energy posting well-thought-out feedback and insights that are widely supported. It seems that Upwork ignores a lot of it, which is why so many people (especially me) just come here to complain now. 

Community Guru
Mark F Member Since: Jul 10, 2018
25 of 42


hat you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

So your overall issue is not so much that someone is complaining about someone else complaining but that they throw in the "if you don't like it you can leave".

 

Would it matter if they said...this is the way things are, you can complain about it if you want to, that might get them to change things, but in the mean time this is how it is...if you want to survive you have to find a way to live with it.

 

I don't think Amanda's post was analogous at all.  She was talking about something that specifically happened to her not some policy they applied to all of us.  

Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
26 of 42

Mark F wrote:


hat you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

So your overall issue is not so much that someone is complaining about someone else complaining but that they throw in the "if you don't like it you can leave".

 

Would it matter if they said...this is the way things are, you can complain about it if you want to, that might get them to change things, but in the mean time this is how it is...if you want to survive you have to find a way to live with it.

 

Admittedly, that particular phrasing especially grates me, but for me the overall issue is that I'll bet most people who complain in the forums know/understand that "if they don't like it, they can leave." It's a pretty obvious statement that I feel is simply used to ridicule them and invalidate their concerns. That's just my opinion. If the people who post such statements or similar truly believe that by saying those words they're sharing insightful information, then I apologize. Carry on.

 

I don't think Amanda's post was analogous at all.  She was talking about something that specifically happened to her not some policy they applied to all of us.  

 

I specifically said her complaint is not similar to that of the OP. I do, however, believe that the TS thing affects most if not all of us. They should not be allowed to meddle with clients' and freelancers' interactions, as both the latter have made it clear that TSs' involvement creates unnecessary complications. 

 

The point is that she has her complaints, I have mine, another freelancer has theirs ... but that doesn't mean someone's complaint is necessarily more valid than anyone else's, or that some (perfectly reasonable) complaints deserve to be attacked/dismissed while the critics themselves are free to complain away.

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
27 of 42

Except that I didn't ask Upwork to change their policies. I was asking  a moderator to assist me with CS because I had put in numerous requests to opt out of the TS program on my upgraded job post. So I wasn't asking them to change procedures. They allow people to opt out, I had requested such, and they continued to mess with my invites and hires. It is not analogous in the least. Asking for assistance to enforce their existing policy is not the same as coming here day in and day out asking them to change their business model. 

 

 

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
28 of 42

Isabelle Anne A wrote:

Amanda L wrote:

Tom Z wrote:

Thank you Isabelle! Exactly, why is there a bunch of "you can use Upwork or leave" posts. Absolutely uncalled for.


Except that's the truth of the matter. The OPs are always asking Upwork to change. Upwork is going to run its own business how they see fit. 

 

Now, if the posts are asking how to use Upwork to its max workability and productivity, then you get different responses. But just posts complaining about how people don't like Upwork? Then leave. If I went to a restaurant and didn't like the food, I wouldn't think to tell the chef to change the menu. I'd just go somewhere else where I do like the food. You don't like Upwork's services, then go to another platform that has the services you do like. No one is forcing you to be here. 

 

Sure, you can leave feedback to Upwork about things that could be changed, but remember that Upwork is a business. They will only implement changes that improve their profitability. So if you suggestion is just about how it would work better for you, then it's probably a waste of time. There are too many fields and too many different kinds of freelancers, clients, and job needs to make one thing better for one freelancer. And as you can see from the posts here, all the FLs disagree on what would be best for them. 

 

Learn to use Upwork's services in a way that produces max profit for you. And if you don't like their services or want different services, sure, you can suggest it, but it's probably more likely that you'll need to go look for that elsewhere. 

 

Also, it's a public community forum. It's not a support group. If you want sugar coating, I can recommend some online support groups that could be helpful. 


What you're saying is very matter of fact, which is fine and true, but remember those words whenever Upwork unleashes on the platform its Talent Specialists, which you complained about in another thread (and which I stongly agreed with you about btw). In the same way, Upwork thinks those TSs are good for business, but they're simply wrong.

 

If enough people complain about a certain (ridiculous) thing, Upwork can reconsider its changes or current practices like it did in the TS debacle a while back. I am not saying that was similar to what the OP is discussing here, but just because you're not affected by / don't care about a specific issue doesn't mean that others have to feel the same.

 

We don't always see how Upwork's features, tweaks, bugs, etc. affect users because only a small number of them come to the forums to complain about them. There are plenty of good clients and very successful freelancers (like you) who quietly quit Upwork in the past few months and year simply because they couldn't be bothered with it anymore. 

 

Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me especially because it seems that the "riffraff" didn't leave with them -- it honestly, honestly feels like things are getting worse here. I will keep posting (complaining) as long as Upwork comes up with further money-making tactics while not fixing fundamental issues with its service.


You might also want to be careful about telling people with client accounts to just leave then. Most of my own work comes from my own business outside of Upwork. I'm bringing money here to give work to FLs. You should be grateful that so many clients do hash it out with UW to follow their own policies so they don't screw up our hiring and make it so no one can get work. 

Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
29 of 42

Amanda L wrote:


You might also want to be careful about telling people with client accounts to just leave then. Most of my own work comes from my own business outside of Upwork. I'm bringing money here to give work to FLs. You should be grateful that so many clients do hash it out with UW to follow their own policies so they don't screw up our hiring and make it so no one can get work. 


I did absolutely no such thing, and if that's the way it came across, let me make it clear that that was not my intention. I was simply saying that your own words can be applied to your complaints as well -- which were valid by the way, which is why I went to post there. I 100% want clients to post about their problems here, especially because my own clients have privately expressed their issues about TSs, the hiring process, and other things. That's also why I mentioned so many (good) users are quietly leaving without saying anything about it in the forums.

 

And you are right that your and the OP's issues are not analogous, which is why I didn't say they're similar. What I was trying to say (which apparently I didn't express very well) is that each of us has our complaints about Upwork -- some of them only affect a certain type of user, while some affect various types of users. There is no need to belittle the ones that don't affect you, especially when it's clear that there's more than one person who feels that way. 

 

(I am also not saying that let's flood the forums with minor complaints, but what the OP and others expressed concern about is something I've also been wondering about and that others have mentioned in the past few months.)

Community Guru
Amanda L Member Since: Jan 23, 2018
30 of 42

Isabelle Anne A wrote:

Amanda L wrote:


You might also want to be careful about telling people with client accounts to just leave then. Most of my own work comes from my own business outside of Upwork. I'm bringing money here to give work to FLs. You should be grateful that so many clients do hash it out with UW to follow their own policies so they don't screw up our hiring and make it so no one can get work. 


I did absolutely no such thing, and if that's the way it came across, let me make it clear that that was not my intention. I was simply saying that your own words can be applied to your complaints as well -- which were valid by the way, which is why I went to post there. I 100% want clients to post about their problems here, especially because my own clients have privately expressed their issues about TSs, the hiring process, and other things. That's also why I mentioned so many (good) users are quietly leaving without saying anything about it in the forums.

 

And you are right that your and the OP's issues are not analogous, which is why I didn't say they're similar. What I was trying to say (which apparently I didn't express very well) is that each of us has our complaints about Upwork -- some of them only affect a certain type of user, while some affect various types of users. There is no need to belittle the ones that don't affect you, especially when it's clear that there's more than one person who feels that way. 

 

(I am also not saying that let's flood the forums with minor complaints, but what the OP and others expressed concern about is something I've also been wondering about and that others have mentioned in the past few months.)


Isabelle, let me just be clear - my problem is not with complaints or suggestions. I quite enjoy when people come with suggestions of how the system might work to make them (and us all) more profitable - and discussion ensues. 

 

What I take issue with, and of course the OPs are free to complain about whatever they want, but what grates me is people who come to complain that they can't find work so UW should fix it. This is very often the true crux of complaints here, IMO. Complaints coming from FLs who expect UW to act like their employer or a temp agency are useless because that's not what UW is. So suggesting UW change to be that is not something I support. And so my response is: if that is what you are looking for, then you are on the wrong site. 

 

I have no qualms answering people's questions about how to strengthen profiles and cover letters/proposals. Of how to best vet jobs and clients. About how to use UW better and more efficiently. My own complaint was to say: this program would work so much better and be more profitable if they actually just asked the client 2-3 questions before inviting random people. That would mean better, more profitable hires, wouldn't really take any more time or resource; how long does it take to send 2-3 canned questions to the client for the TS to review to use in their inviting? A few seconds? I digress.

 

I do think it's fair to recommend to some people that they will not have much chance here on UW. That's not meant to be harsh or mean. It's actually an act of compassion to tell people the harsh reality that freelancing is not easy, and it's not going to get any easier. And no one is going to hand things to them - which, for me, I see a lot of entitlement in many of these complaints. 

 

Maybe we have to agree to disagree. You're free to complain; I'm free to be brutally honest. The world goes round. We're both making money, so it's all good. Smiley Happy 

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