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Now that Connects cost hard-earned money, why don't job postings expire?

Active Member
Deja L Member Since: Jun 27, 2019
1 of 30

It's going on August and I still have open proposals from jobs I applied to back in April! Clearly the client isn't looking to hire anyone anymore. These clients have either gone ghost or for whatever reason just leaves the listing open indefinitely. 

 

Now that Connects are costing us money, there should be some sort of policy in place that automatically cancels a job listing is no one is hired after a certain amount of time.

 

I've always purchased more Connects and have been a Plus subscriber for years. I counted 98 Connects still up in the air from job listings 30+ days old. 

 

It's bad enough we're being nickled and dimed every step of the way, but freelancers also assume all of the crap around here.

- 20% taken out of our earnings.

- Up to $1 to apply for a position.

- Constantly having to re-verify identity, complete reCaptchas every other hour, or otherwise have your account frozen until you do. 

Meanwhile, clients aren't regulated or checked in any way except to have a lower hire rate % when they waste our time.... which doesn't do much on their end but literally costs us money on ours. 

Community Leader
william b Member Since: Jan 3, 2015
2 of 30

DL,

 

All of your points are absolutely valid and this is an ongoing problem for all freelancers. If it's any consolation I can tell you that, even for the most experienced FLs, things are currently tough all over.

 

In regards to obviously abandoned job posts however, 

I would call to your ATTENTION, the professional pledge of Upwork Moderator Joanne Marie P.-

"We regularly reach out to clients who have open job posts to encourage them to close them if they don’t intend to hire. Because we know the move to paid Connects has made this issue more important, we have already ramped up our outreach to clients who post jobs and don’t hire, and are looking into other ways to BETTER ENSURE THESE JOBS GET CLOSED SO YOUR  CONNECTS ARE RETURNED IN THESE CASES."

 

I personally track all of my proposals carefully and at the 30 day mark I begin to flag these posts. At the 33 day mark I report these posts to the Upwork "Help" Center, reminding them of the above pledge, and then request-

1. Please contact client regarding their professional intentions

2. Remove post without further delay

3. Return my Connects immediately

 

There is responsible action taken occasionally, but just as often there is no responsible action taken, and absolutely no "Help & Support" given. You should know, however, that either way it's a time-consuming process. 

If more freelancers made this request, however, I would hope that UW might make some reasonable changes.

 

Work smart, work safe!

 

Community Guru
Abinadab A Member Since: Sep 26, 2016
3 of 30

Hi! William.

If client proactively closes job more than 30 days after original posting, you don't get back your connects.

This is how it was even in the era of free connects.

If they proactively close it less than 30 days after posting, you get it back.

 

Please confirm if you've experienced anything on the contrary.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 30

Abinadab wrote:

 

If client proactively closes job more than 30 days after original posting, you don't get back your connects.

This is how it was even in the era of free connects.

If they proactively close it less than 30 days after posting, you get it back.


 

If the client closes the job post without having hired anyone you get your connects back. It makes no difference whether it was over 30 days or not.

If the job post expires for being over 30 days inactive, you don't.

 


William wrote:

personally track all of my proposals carefully and at the 30 day mark I begin to flag these posts. At the 33 day mark I report these posts to the Upwork "Help" Center, reminding them of the above pledge, and then request-

1. Please contact client regarding their professional intentions

2. Remove post without further delay

3. Return my Connects immediately

 

If more freelancers made this request, however, I would hope that UW might make some reasonable changes.


If more freelancers willfully waste Support time (which we all pay for with our fees) I would hope that Upwork might make the reasonable change to charge for support. Considering the blatant abuse which clogs up the system and means that people who REALLY need support have to wait, I'd be all in favor of that.

Say 20 connects for live chat, 10 for a ticket?

 

William, did you really misinterpret that canned response so completely that you thought it was "a pledge" and meant an actual human would contact clients to beg them to close contracts? 

Did you really think a vague promise to look into other ways constituted some promise to return connects (rather than the auto-generated emails that are sent?) 

 

Or do you just have too much time on your hands to track every proposal and then keep running to support to remind them of some pledge you know perfectly well does not mean what you are trying to pretend that it means?

Community Leader
william b Member Since: Jan 3, 2015
5 of 30

Petra,

 

Please feel free to share what your definition of professional Help & Support entails, anytime. All I know from this forum is it appears clear that many feelancers do, in fact, require actual help and support from the Upwork Help Center.

If the suggestion is that the Upwork Help Center reps might find themselves somehow overburdened by their professional repsonsibilities, perhaps they should seek less stressful employment elsewhere, and give the next in line an opportunity to shine!

 

As for the words of Upwork Moderator Joanne Marie P; that is a direct quote, without edit or alteration. If you have some issue with that pledge or are unclear as to her meaning, perhaps you should take it up directly with JMP. 

 

Thanks.

 

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
6 of 30

William, there are two million registered freelancers on Upwork and tens of thousands of clients. How many customer service reps would you have Upwork hire to hand-hold each of tens of thousands of freelancers through the exact same process, answering the exact same questions one-on-one. Upwork is already losing money each month, so how much extra would you be willing to pay to hire hundreds of additional customer service reps? Personally, I'm not so into the idea of paying 40-50% fees so that freelancers don't have to be bothered to read the TOS.

Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
7 of 30

If I convert the hourly rate into connect, a minute at $45/h is worth 5 connects. I rather spent the time working and earning money for new connects that wasting my presious time on contacting CS for something that is clearly defind.

Active Member
Deja L Member Since: Jun 27, 2019
8 of 30

Who's hourly rate? As a web developer, I can honestly say I spend about $75-100 per month on Connects. Because of the high budgets for these projects, almost every job I apply for is 6 Connects. My hire rate is pretty high but the fact is I'm paying this ON TOP of being charged 20% for the contract anyway. 

 

In response to whoever said Upwork is losing money, that's what companies do! Spotify hasn't made a profit since they started. That's what investors and stocks are for. That doesn't mean continue to tack on fees to the people that generate your revenue. I was just saying how about spread things a little more evenly. Charge these ghosting clients, or the ones who post 10 duplicate jobs posts every 10 minutes, wasting all of our time and money only to never hire anyone!?

Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
9 of 30

Deja L wrote:

Who's hourly rate?

William's

As a web developer, I can honestly say I spend about $75-100 per month on Connects. Because of the high budgets for these projects, almost every job I apply for is 6 Connects. My hire rate is pretty high but the fact is I'm paying this ON TOP of being charged 20% for the contract anyway. 

Are you aware that your profile is set to private? Clients cannot find you, but if they could you might save some money.

In response to whoever said Upwork is losing money, that's what companies do! Spotify hasn't made a profit since they started. That's what investors and stocks are for. That doesn't mean continue to tack on fees to the people that generate your revenue. I was just saying how about spread things a little more evenly. Charge these ghosting clients, or the ones who post 10 duplicate jobs posts every 10 minutes, wasting all of our time and money only to never hire anyone!?

And how do shareholders behave when a business keeps losing money? I also have at least three realy good clients that never replied to my proposal and then hired me months later. Do you think they would have hired someone if they had to pay before they were ready to decide on a freelancer?

And just out of curiosity: How much money do you lose with your business?


 

Active Member
Deja L Member Since: Jun 27, 2019
10 of 30

1) My profile isn't set to private. It's set to Upwork users only. I receive 1-2 invitations a day so clients can find me just fine. 

 

2) You'll never win defending Upwork's right to keep taxing freelancers at every corner when freelancers are the only reason Upwork exists. I'm not saying make everything free like it used to be. I'm just saying maybe put some of these costs on inactive clients. I've officially started accounts at Guru and Freelancer and even with zero feedback I've gotten some pretty decent web dev contracts....for free...with "connects" refreshing on their own.

 

3) Most clients that leave jobs open for 3+ months aren't looking to hire. And logically, who's to say freelancer proposals submitted 3+ months ago even apply anymore. If a client has a job that's been open for that long without hire, that job should expire, connects should be refunded, and the client can REPOST the job when he's actually ready to hire someone. Don't waste our time, and now money, on ideas you plan on hiring for someday.

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