geigerj
Member

Observations from client's perspective

Proposals are one of the most critical factors of job awards. But how can you win if you don’t know the rules of the game?  Well, I had a teeny tiny job that I needed done, and so I posted a job on UpWork.  My first one here.  If nothing else, it was certainly an interesting exercise in understanding how things work here, and what the client sees when they read our proposals.  For what it’s worth, I thought I’d share for other Elance to UpWork migrants, or any other new person. 

 

 

1) The job posting process was fairly straightforward and simple.  I was forced to choose between the $, $$, and $$$ metric, although I wanted to leave that blank, since I have to put a budget in anyway (the budget is my budget; who am I to say whether that rate is equivalent to an inexperienced or experienced freelancer rate?)

 

2) During the posting process, I was prompted several times to accept recommendations from UpWork for who I would invite.  I declined multiple times.  I’d like to invite my own freelancers and am completely unconcerned with who UpWork thinks I should hire.  Asking more than once seemed silly. 

 

3) The search feature for providers seemed adequate.  I was able to filter by how recently they’ve been active, where they are located, and what their skills are.  The search results seemed applicable.

 

4) I invited about 10 people.  The next morning, I was inundated with emails.  I received two emails for each applicant.  Not sure why this was necessary.  A little overkill, perhaps.

 

5) When I logged into UpWork to view the proposals, the screen showed 6 applicants, with NO OPTION to scroll further, and no option at the bottom to go to the next page of applicants.  If I hadn’t looked to see a tiny little number on the top right hand side, I never would have even known there were more proposals than what was showing on the screen.  It does not say “page 1 of 2” or anything like that.  Just six proposals.  But in a box on the right, it shows 13 applicants.  It took me a minute or two to figure out how to view all the proposals.  This seems super unfair for those who didn’t make the first page.  The six that did show up on the first page were on there because they were “recommended” by UpWork (didn’t I already tell them on several occasions that I didn’t want their recommendations?”)

 

6) What’s really interesting is what shows up on the page where you view all your proposals (or should I say, the 6 that UpWork thought I should see).  Providers, when you are writing your proposal, IF you respond to the question “Do you have any questions about this job?” the first line of your answer shows up.  That’s it.  Even if you entered “No.” (so that's all that would show up) If you didn’t enter anything at all in this box, what shows up is the first line or two of your actual proposal.  Now, I don’t know about every client, but if I had 30 applicants, I wouldn’t read the entire proposal for all candidates, or investigate them all (unless I found no suitable candidates).  It seems to me that this first line could be your only shot at getting the client’s attention.

 

7) I looked at a few profiles for the applicants.  On the first profile I viewed, there was a popup next to the JSS that said, “Is this helpful?” asking me to click yes or no.  This tells me UpWork is not yet sold on the JSS, and is asking clients their opinion on this.   For all you JSS haters, there is hope.

 

😎 Also from this proposal page, there is a little box on the top of each application that lets you remove the applicant from the possible choices for a variety of reasons. The reasons are as follows: “Okay, but not quite right” , “Clearly not qualified”, “Qualified, but too expensive”, “Poor comments in work history”, “Poor quality cover letter”. “Other”, “Report to Upwork...”  It says “The freelancer will not be notified. Your feedback helps Upwork improve our freelancer recommendations.” Meaning that clients are now able to influence who UpWork recommends with this feature, without the applicant being notified.  (This might be bad news for all you robot bidders.) So the next time you think about answering a proposal just for the heck of it, or repsonding with questions, or responding to an invite to a scam job with a note to the client about how they can't ask for free work or homework, or whatever--don't.

 

A few other comments.  I wish I was clever enough to provide a screen shot (and blur out names) of what the client sees from the page where all the applicants are displayed.  Oh well.  I'll just explain it.  This is what shows up on the list of applicants page, from left to right, top to bottom:

 

Line 1  a)Profile pic. If they were invited, the profile pic has a “invited” text box below the pic.  b) HUGE YELLOW BUTTON that says “Recommended” if UpWork recommended them.  This is bigger than anything else on the page. WHY? c) Name.  d) Title (Elancers, if you migrated, this is still your tagline unless you changed it!) .  e)Button to either shortlist the applicant or kick them to the curb.


Line 2 a) Bid amount (but it took me a while to figure out if this was their normal rate, the bid itself, or what.  It’s not labeled, just the amount itself).  b) Badge (top rated, rising talent, or nothing).  c) Job success percent.  d) How many hours they have (this is not good for providers who mainly worked fixed price, which seems silly since I was hiring for a fixed price job), OR “new to UpWork” if they have no hours. e) Location.

 

Line 3.  “Do you have any questions about the job description?”

 

Line 4: Answer to above

 

Or if that question wasn’t answered…

Line 3: first line of actual proposal

Line 2: Second line of actual proposal

 

It occurred to me only when I was a client, and not a provider, that there is no official place to put turnaround time, how long it will take to complete or anything like that.  I’m used to Elance requiring this.

 

A bit about who was recommended of the applicants:  I was unable to determine what logic is used to decide who is recommended and who is not.  I had “New to UpWork” applicants who were recommended—not even history to calculate a JSS.  There were also “Top Rated” providers who were recommended, as well as applicants with an 88% JSS.  On the other hand, there were top rated providers with 100% JSS who did not get that “recommended” status, who clearly had the skills listed that I required.

 

I received one decline from my invites.  I could not see anywhere that it said why the invite was declined.  I’m not sure this is passed onto the client, and that's too bad.

 

I realize in retrospect when I received two emails for each proposal, this is incorrect.  I received two emails for each recommended applicant.  I received one email for all other applicants, unless they messaged me, in which case I had two.

 

Inviting a provider is the same as asking them to “interview”.  Who knew?

 

In the one decline notification I received, UpWork again suggested three more possible candidates to hire.  This seems like a desperate attempt to ensure each client finds a suitable provider...

 

Well, there you have it.  

 

--Juli

38 REPLIES 38
prestonhunter
Member

Julianne, thank you for this fantastic post! Interesting and informative.

 

re : "I was forced to choose between the $, $$, and $$$ metric, although I wanted to leave that blank, since I have to put a budget in anyway "

 

This is not a question about your budget. It is a question about your philosophy toward getting the work done.

 

A project with a small budget may employ top dollar people, and vice versa. Sometimes I recruit top-dollar ($$$) contractors for a small, low-budget task. They are paid their $$$ hourly fee, but I don't spend much budget because it is a short task, such as one hour of consultation.

 

Sometimes a client mixes these ($, $$, $$$) within a single project.

 

You may choose to hire entry-level css designers and top-dollar writers, for example.

lysis10
Member

This is awesome, Juli. THANK YOU.

 

I've been meaning to post a design job once I get motivation to put my ideas on paper. I want to see the process myself too. I think it gives you a competitive edge.

 

I would feel like an ultra jerk rating providers down on their proposals unless it was some really bad stuff. I wonder how many clients do it though?

hbbabiar
Member


Julianne G wrote:

  

5) When I logged into UpWork to view the proposals, the screen showed 6 applicants, with NO OPTION to scroll further, and no option at the bottom to go to the next page of applicants.  If I hadn’t looked to see a tiny little number on the top right hand side, I never would have even known there were more proposals than what was showing on the screen.  It does not say “page 1 of 2” or anything like that.  Just six proposals.  But in a box on the right, it shows 13 applicants.  It took me a minute or two to figure out how to view all the proposals.  This seems super unfair for those who didn’t make the first page.  The six that did show up on the first page were on there because they were “recommended” by UpWork (didn’t I already tell them on several occasions that I didn’t want their recommendations?”)

 

 

A bit about who was recommended of the applicants:  I was unable to determine what logic is used to decide who is recommended and who is not.  I had “New to UpWork” applicants who were recommended—not even history to calculate a JSS.  There were also “Top Rated” providers who were recommended, as well as applicants with an 88% JSS.  On the other hand, there were top rated providers with 100% JSS who did not get that “recommended” status, who clearly had the skills listed that I required.

  

Well, there you have it.  

 

--Juli


 



Juli, this is very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

 

I cringe reading # 5, because it validates what I had suspected for some time. 

 

Does anyone know how Upwork picks the recommended freelancers? What are the metrics for inclusion in the hallowed group?  

iaabraham
Member

Thank you Julianne. This justifies my lack of faith in Upwork.
zoomconcepts
Member

Thanks, Julianne! This is extremely useful and explains quite a lot of things that go wrong with the hiring process. From what I gathered, Upwork's attempts to "help" actually make the process clunkier and more cumbersome than it should be. 

Thanks for this very clear account Juli and for the time expended. This is a keeper.

 

Jennifer said:

"I would feel like an ultra jerk rating providers down on their proposals unless it was some really bad stuff. I wonder how many clients do it though?"

 

Probably not that many, but perhaps those clients that don't like being told off for cheating or that their budget is too low. Now I know why I don't get many invites!

jedwardmills
Member

Yes i have seen the clients side

 

And yes there are countless reasons why FREELANCERS are having a hard time landing work here.

 

If anyone had  sense they would migrate everyone back over to the ELANCE platform and let work continue there.

 

Elance was a WELL OILED machine from both the clients and freelancers side ( i saw both )

 

Unfortunately they are trying to shove a square peg into a round circle. It doesn't work that way.

 

Note for management: Go see how Elance works, DUPLICATE their features, layout, colors.

 

Heck better still. Being as it says that ELANCE is an upwork company. Just start using Elance system please.

svenimp
Member

Thank you for the diligent research and willingness to post this Julianne. I appreciated being able to get a glimpse into how things were being seen on the "other" side of the proposal process. I have to admit it made my stomach hurt a bit. I also have a tiny sense of why I get invites to translate documents from Swahili, or conduct interviews with African tribal leaders (true story).

Again, thanks for posting this.

geigerj
Member

An update on my client experience.

 

So funding escrow was easy enough.  Selecting my providers was easy enough.  Releasing funds was also pretty simple. As soon as I released funds, however, I was prompted to fund the next milestone, which there isn't one.  I thought this was odd.  I can see offering the option to add a milestone and fund it, or closing out the job if completed.  But if I funded and released the project for the agreed upon amount in full, why would I not have the option right there to end the contract?  It seems weird that I would have to hunt around to be able to do this.  It is no wonder why so many projects are left open for no reason. 

 

So I finally found out how to end the contract, and when I clicked on the "end contract" button, I was prompted first to leave private feedback.  First, I had to choose the reason ending my contract. I could choose between closed early due to freelancer performance, closed early due to other reason, closed because contract completed, and some other reason I don't recall.  If you chose closed early due to other reason, there was no way to enter a "why" (at least I was not prompted to do so there; perhaps this would have been an option had I proceeded to the next page, but I didn't want to select this for real).

 

Then, I was asked to rate my freelancer's performance on a scale of one to ten, as to how likely I would be to recommend them to a friend or colleague with ten = "extremely likely".  Then, I was asked to leave public feedback by assigning between one to five stars for each of the following categories: "skills, quality of work, availability, adherence to schedule, communication, cooperation".  

 

I was interested to note that thankfully, there is no price metric as there was on Elance.

 

I was then asked to share comments about this freelancer to the UpWork community, cautioning me that this would be public, so I should be professional.

 

Note that there was no option to leave private feedback without leaving public feedback, or vice versa.  Both were on the same page.

 

All in all. the feedback process was fairly straightforward.  

 

--Juli

 

 


@Julianne G wrote:
....As soon as I released funds, however, I was prompted to fund the next milestone, which there isn't one.  I thought this was odd.  I can see offering the option to add a milestone and fund it, or closing out the job if completed.  But if I funded and released the project for the agreed upon amount in full, why would I not have the option right there to end the contract?  It seems weird that I would have to hunt around to be able to do this.  It is no wonder why so many projects are left open for no reason.  

 


Juli,

 

Indeed. Upwork puts hustling for more revenue ahead of client convenience, simple logic, and contactor welfare—and then burdens us with cleaning up their mess.

 

Best,

Michael

Thank you so much for this! It shines a light on UpWork's mystery. And, unfortunately, it confirms some of the worries I've had about what clients actually see when I spend my precious Connects... It's nice to get some information on the process, since transparency is nonexistent, and UpWork's response is usually, "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN."

 

Hard-working freelancers like myself are trying our best to do our best. Thanks for helping us out.

Enlightening. Thank you for taking the time to conduct this research and share it with us. 

Elance is still the better platform and Julianne's post exposes all the reasons why. I'm still getting jobs and invites there and doing better there - right to the bitter end. 

I recently received an email from a "top rated" hoohah - proclaiming this and that about how they know how to make Upwork work for them, there is no problem, we're just doing it all wrong, it's our fault. Phooey.

 

Awesome post, Julianne. Hopefully TPTB will pay attention. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Cairenn R wrote:  I recently received an email from a "top rated" hoohah - proclaiming this and that about how they know how to make Upwork work for them, there is no problem, we're just doing it all wrong, it's our fault.
--

 

 HUH???

 

susanned
Member

Thank you Juli.

Your no 5 is exactly what I supposed it would look like. Enough reason for me not to change my mind.

cclapper
Member

Thanks so much for taking your time and for posting this. I could already see the upwork intrusion into the process from the freelancer side of things, very interesting to see it from the clients side, too.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Thank you Julianne for such a detailed post about your experience hiring freelancers on Upwork. You feedback is very valuable for us as well as the feedback of all the people that commented on your post.

 

I am glad to hear you found the process of posting a job mostly straightforward and freelancer search results fairly adequate. It's also good to hear that funding and releasing milestones was quite easy and the steps to end the contract and provide feedback were pretty straightforward.

 

It sounds like the biggest issues are the emphasis on recommended freelancers and the lack of relevance of their profiles to your job requirements. This is definitely very important and I am going to share this with the team.

 

Thanks again!

~ Valeria
Upwork


@Valeria K wrote:
and the steps to end the contract and provide feedback were pretty straightforward.

 Actually, she said

 

if I funded and released the project for the agreed upon amount in full, why would I not have the option right there to end the contract?  It seems weird that I would have to hunt around to be able to do this.  It is no wonder why so many projects are left open for no reason. 


@Gyan D wrote:

@Valeria K wrote:
and the steps to end the contract and provide feedback were pretty straightforward.

 Actually, she said

 

if I funded and released the project for the agreed upon amount in full, why would I not have the option right there to end the contract?  It seems weird that I would have to hunt around to be able to do this.  It is no wonder why so many projects are left open for no reason. 


 It would be neat if there were two options  on that screen:

1) Fund next milestone

2) End contract

Anonymous User
Not applicable
This widget could not be displayed.


@Julianne G wrote:

Proposals are one of the most critical factors of job awards. But how can you win if you don’t know the rules of the game?  Well, I had a teeny tiny job that I needed done, and so I posted a job on UpWork.  My first one here.  If nothing else, it was certainly an interesting exercise in understanding how things work here, and what the client sees when they read our proposals.  For what it’s worth, I thought I’d share for other Elance to UpWork migrants, or any other new person. 

 

 

1) The job posting process was fairly straightforward and simple.  I was forced to choose between the $, $$, and $$$ metric, although I wanted to leave that blank, since I have to put a budget in anyway (the budget is my budget; who am I to say whether that rate is equivalent to an inexperienced or experienced freelancer rate?)

 

2) During the posting process, I was prompted several times to accept recommendations from UpWork for who I would invite.  I declined multiple times.  I’d like to invite my own freelancers and am completely unconcerned with who UpWork thinks I should hire.  Asking more than once seemed silly. 

 

3) The search feature for providers seemed adequate.  I was able to filter by how recently they’ve been active, where they are located, and what their skills are.  The search results seemed applicable.

 

4) I invited about 10 people.  The next morning, I was inundated with emails.  I received two emails for each applicant.  Not sure why this was necessary.  A little overkill, perhaps.

 

5) When I logged into UpWork to view the proposals, the screen showed 6 applicants, with NO OPTION to scroll further, and no option at the bottom to go to the next page of applicants.  If I hadn’t looked to see a tiny little number on the top right hand side, I never would have even known there were more proposals than what was showing on the screen.  It does not say “page 1 of 2” or anything like that.  Just six proposals.  But in a box on the right, it shows 13 applicants.  It took me a minute or two to figure out how to view all the proposals.  This seems super unfair for those who didn’t make the first page.  The six that did show up on the first page were on there because they were “recommended” by UpWork (didn’t I already tell them on several occasions that I didn’t want their recommendations?”)

 

6) What’s really interesting is what shows up on the page where you view all your proposals (or should I say, the 6 that UpWork thought I should see).  Providers, when you are writing your proposal, IF you respond to the question “Do you have any questions about this job?” the first line of your answer shows up.  That’s it.  Even if you entered “No.” (so that's all that would show up) If you didn’t enter anything at all in this box, what shows up is the first line or two of your actual proposal.  Now, I don’t know about every client, but if I had 30 applicants, I wouldn’t read the entire proposal for all candidates, or investigate them all (unless I found no suitable candidates).  It seems to me that this first line could be your only shot at getting the client’s attention.

 

7) I looked at a few profiles for the applicants.  On the first profile I viewed, there was a popup next to the JSS that said, “Is this helpful?” asking me to click yes or no.  This tells me UpWork is not yet sold on the JSS, and is asking clients their opinion on this.   For all you JSS haters, there is hope.

 

😎 Also from this proposal page, there is a little box on the top of each application that lets you remove the applicant from the possible choices for a variety of reasons. The reasons are as follows: “Okay, but not quite right” , “Clearly not qualified”, “Qualified, but too expensive”, “Poor comments in work history”, “Poor quality cover letter”. “Other”, “Report to Upwork...”  It says “The freelancer will not be notified. Your feedback helps Upwork improve our freelancer recommendations.” Meaning that clients are now able to influence who UpWork recommends with this feature, without the applicant being notified.  (This might be bad news for all you robot bidders.) So the next time you think about answering a proposal just for the heck of it, or repsonding with questions, or responding to an invite to a scam job with a note to the client about how they can't ask for free work or homework, or whatever--don't.

 

A few other comments.  I wish I was clever enough to provide a screen shot (and blur out names) of what the client sees from the page where all the applicants are displayed.  Oh well.  I'll just explain it.  This is what shows up on the list of applicants page, from left to right, top to bottom:

 

Line 1  a)Profile pic. If they were invited, the profile pic has a “invited” text box below the pic.  b) HUGE YELLOW BUTTON that says “Recommended” if UpWork recommended them.  This is bigger than anything else on the page. WHY? c) Name.  d) Title (Elancers, if you migrated, this is still your tagline unless you changed it!) .  e)Button to either shortlist the applicant or kick them to the curb.


Line 2 a) Bid amount (but it took me a while to figure out if this was their normal rate, the bid itself, or what.  It’s not labeled, just the amount itself).  b) Badge (top rated, rising talent, or nothing).  c) Job success percent.  d) How many hours they have (this is not good for providers who mainly worked fixed price, which seems silly since I was hiring for a fixed price job), OR “new to UpWork” if they have no hours. e) Location.

 

Line 3.  “Do you have any questions about the job description?”

 

Line 4: Answer to above

 

Or if that question wasn’t answered…

Line 3: first line of actual proposal

Line 2: Second line of actual proposal

 

It occurred to me only when I was a client, and not a provider, that there is no official place to put turnaround time, how long it will take to complete or anything like that.  I’m used to Elance requiring this.

 

A bit about who was recommended of the applicants:  I was unable to determine what logic is used to decide who is recommended and who is not.  I had “New to UpWork” applicants who were recommended—not even history to calculate a JSS.  There were also “Top Rated” providers who were recommended, as well as applicants with an 88% JSS.  On the other hand, there were top rated providers with 100% JSS who did not get that “recommended” status, who clearly had the skills listed that I required.

 

I received one decline from my invites.  I could not see anywhere that it said why the invite was declined.  I’m not sure this is passed onto the client, and that's too bad.

 

I realize in retrospect when I received two emails for each proposal, this is incorrect.  I received two emails for each recommended applicant.  I received one email for all other applicants, unless they messaged me, in which case I had two.

 

Inviting a provider is the same as asking them to “interview”.  Who knew?

 

In the one decline notification I received, UpWork again suggested three more possible candidates to hire.  This seems like a desperate attempt to ensure each client finds a suitable provider...

 

Well, there you have it.  

 

--Juli


Thank you Julianne for your research. One of the most interesting posts here. Very illuminative, especially No. 5. 

Thank you for sharing that, very interesting.

 

 

Upwork, please add an end contract button with the funding next milestone option. As a relatively new freelancer, I don't want to cheese of clients by nagging them to do something extra, after the job is done and dusted from their POV, with nothing for them to get out of it.  I also don't want my new JSS to be disproportionately impacted by some little job I took on once, which the client hasn't closed, and will never come back to.

 

Please!  pretty please.  This is my number one bugbear, and I spend a lot of time agonising over when to push - too soon, and you risk missing out on work.  Too late, and they might have forgotten who I am, and leave feedback whilst feeling either disinterested, or cheesed off at being asked to do an unecessary and tiresome thing.

 

Thanks

Oh my goodness. You're right.

 

It IS DIFFICULT to figure out how to end a contract if you're a client using a fixed-price contract. Everything leads to making new milestones.

 

The milestone concept really is more problematic for contractors than simply using new contracts.

 

Setting up new contracts isn't difficult and doesn't cost any more for clients.

 

Just for general usability, and also to make things nicer for contractors who prefer to use different contracts (rather than multiple milestones), it would be great if it was easier to figure out how to end a fixed-price contract.

Do we laugh or cry over all the agony, time, effort, and electrons wasted over a fundamental interface design flaw?

This whole thread has been awesome. Terminally depressing, but awesome.

 

 

Douglas do not post more - you have 777 jackpot.... Smiley Very Happy

this is what happens when you get an account hold. word to the wise, the effect lasts for 90 days:

 

Profile VIews

l_pouncey
Member

Very interesting. Yet, very disheartening (Number 6 and Number 8).

lonehorseend
Member

Thank you, Julianne!

 

As others have said, this is very interesting and insightful.  #5 is my biggest concern.  I only apply to jobs where I feel I'm 90 percent qualified for to start with. To know that clients have only 6 candidates that show up on the front page with no idea of how they are recommended or an easy way to find the rest makes me wonder how many of my applications are actually being seen. 

"d) How many hours they have (this is not good for providers who mainly worked fixed price, which seems silly since I was hiring for a fixed price job),"

I have 81 completed jobs and most of them by fixed price..thus, only 47 hours of logged hourly work (in my 2+ years of career over here). That explains, why often someone else (even with starter profiles and no Upwork experience) gets the most $$$ jobs - doesn't it?

This is first time I've seen this post.

 

 

It's that depressingly revealing that I'm now almost wishing I hadn't seen it.

 

No 5 is very depressing.

 

And the fact that only number of hours is displayed - not number of jobs.

 

The prominence of a huge yellow button for Upwork recommended freelancers is disgraceful.

 

There's so many issues relating to  Upwork interfering in the way that proposals are presented to the client -  I've mentioned in another post that I think Upwork is violating its user agreement.

 

We are at the total mercy of the Upwork algorithms and interface.

 

There's no way that a freelancer can be sure that a client ever sees their proposal. No way at all.

 

Like others in here... a big sigh.

 

 

Sigh,

 

Confirms every worst case scenario about Upwork that I've had.

 

I wonder, do those freelancers who pay for extra contacts get precendence in placing? Are they the 6 freelancers who apply the client actually sees on the page? I was actually someone who was recommended once, didnt' get the contract as someone underbid me, but then I took a chance on a flaky client and my JSS is 69%.

 

Anyone have experience **edited for Community Guidelines**

Somehow I overlooked this extremely informative discussion until now. There's a lot that concerns me, but especially the preference given to freelancers 'recommended' by Upwork. I wish an Upwork mod would confirm if those practices have been changed in anyway, but until then I assume they're unchanged. Someone questioned whether Upwork might be violating its own terms of service, so I looked up the User Agreement and found 2 passages that mention recommendations.

 

The first one reads,

"You hereby acknowledge and agree that Upwork may provide information on the Site about a Freelancer or Client, such as feedback, composite feedback, including a strength or risk score, geographical location, or verification of identity or credentials. However, such information is based solely on data that Freelancers or Clients voluntarily submit to Upwork and does not constitute and will not be construed as an introduction, endorsement, or recommendation by Upwork; Upwork provides such information solely for the convenience of Users."

 

This seems to rule out recommendations. On the other hand, the second passage states,

"Upwork is not liable, and you agree not to hold us responsible, for any damages or losses arising out of or in connection with this Agreement, including, but not limited to....

  • your reliance on the quality, accuracy, or reliability of job postings, freelancer profiles, ratings, recommendations, and feedback"

I'm not an attorney but a plain English reading tells me a) Upwork reserves the right to make recommendations and b) is not accountable for the quality or appropriateness of its recommendations

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Hi John,

Re User Agreement violation I posted somewhere else - might have been Clients pages.

 

I dare not re-post in here - I might get suspended for duplicating.

 

I'll go and find the post link and edit this message later.

 

---Edited for John - here's the link to my other post with part of the User Agreement which states that Upwork does NOT help Freelancers to find engagements or introduce them.

 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Hidden-applications-of-a-Job/td-p/5351/page/6

 

 

 


@Randall B wrote:

Sigh,

 

Confirms every worst case scenario about Upwork that I've had.

 

I wonder, do those freelancers who pay for extra contacts get precendence in placing? Are they the 6 freelancers who apply the client actually sees on the page? I was actually someone who was recommended once, didnt' get the contract as someone underbid me, but then I took a chance on a flaky client and my JSS is 69%.

 

Anyone have experience w/ Freelancer.com?


 Hi Randall,

We just do not know if anyone sees our proposals. It's a scandal. No transparency about the recommended algorithms - just vague 'it's based on job success score, etc etc ...and we can't divulge the criteria and parameters because it would be open to abuse etc.'

 

I joined 2 other freelancing platforms in 2015 but I haven't really dedicated much time to them because I was getting enough work from Elance.

 

I want Upwork to change and improve dramatically over the coming weeks / months.

 

In the meanwhile...

 

I recently joined yet another freelancer platform. I will be spending more and more time putting some effort into securing contracts on 3 platforms now, as well as Upwork.

I still haven't landed a single job on Upwork, apart from my old clients switching over from Elance, and awarding it here to me.

100% JSS, Top rated, as experienced as one can get, with a huge portfolio...

Somehow, i don't think this misfortune it's down to my poor profile....

It's more of me not cutting prices and UpWork doing their UpMost to screw things Up...

csjarmitage
Member

I hadn't seen this before either, and it's very valuable information.

 

As with several others here, the fifth point is pretty disconcerting.  I don't have a ton of experience on Upwork but I somehow went from "Recommended" and receiving a few invitations to, apparently, no longer recommended and pretty much out of sight.  I scrolled through 23 pages of VAs before I finally gave up trying to determine where my profile is.

 

This leads me to believe (perhaps erroneously?) that the proposals I do submit are lost in the nether.  I suspect they're not even seen.  Very few are ever declined by the client; they just sit there in my proposal bucket for forever.

 

I had hoped to have UW in my gig arsenal but, apparently, that may not be a viable plan.

barronrandall
Member

Here's is the culmination of the conversation I just had w/ a prior client about leaving feedback: I've started a thread for this but I posted it here because it's germaine.

 

"I give up....I have tried and tried to find a way to leave feedback....it is not possible.

I have opened another job to fix the bugs.....I can leave feedback on that job...(I think)...but I am at a loss as to how to do it on the previous job. I promise that I have no issues with giving you the highest ratings possible....I love the work you did for me and want to continue our relationship, etc."

 

It was uncomfortable for me to have this conversation, but I had no choice. Had same convo w/ another satisfied client via Skype....says he will fix. IF he can figure out how.

 

 

Count me as someone who used to get offers out of the blue but not since my % dropped to 69%, largely because the two above clients forgot/couldn't figure out how to leave review.

 

I'm lucky. I have a bread and butter client who I work for that isn't through Upwork. I can imagine how detrimental this is to many of you, and me as well.

 

This is not workable Upwork.

Randall,

 

Please, refer to my reply about your client's feedback here.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Chris M, thanks for the link.

 

User Agreement still says, "Upwork does not introduce Freelancers to Clients or help Freelancers find Engagements." -- if recommending a freelancer isn't helping a freelancer find an engagement, what is it I wonder?

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"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce