Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

Offline Hiring --- The REAL stats?

financemark
Community Guru
Mark K Member Since: Jul 7, 2016
1 of 26

You've seen them -- A very active Client - lots of postings over a long period - decent, but not great reward rate.  Posts a job, 15 proposals, 5 interviewing --- then nothing for days, followed by another job posting, with same pattern.

 

Am I a conspiracy nut in thinking that these Clients and some Freelancers are taking it offline?

Hope so, bc I don't work with Clients who ask me to do that when I submit.

leeannmerrill
Community Leader
Lee Ann M Member Since: Feb 23, 2016
BEST ANSWER
2 of 26

I sense this is happening more and more, and I know it happened with a job I recently applied for.  I am coming to the conclusion that allowing clients or potential clients to use the site for free may lead to Upwork's failure to thrive.  The only way Upwork makes money off of clients, as I understand it, is through clients' use of Upwork's payment systems to pay freelancers.  If clients already have "payment systems" in place, i.e. they can get money to a freelancer, then they have free access to a database of freelancers whose expertise they can evaluate in detail and whom they can likely contact through other means (this is also now happening to me) and can then hire and pay through other means.  If you have a client account then are caught hiring someone offline what's your punishment?  You lose your client account, but that doesn't matter because you can browse freelancers anonymously.  If you are a freelancer, what's your punishment if you're caught working off-platorm on a job you found through Upwork?  You lose your freelancer account.  But if fewer and fewer people are actually hiring on Upwork and you're not getting jobs, your Upwork account starts to be worth less and less.  It's a downward spiral.

View solution in original post

yitwail
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
3 of 26

@Lee Ann M wrote:

If you are a freelancer, what's your punishment if you're caught working off-platorm on a job you found through Upwork?  You lose your freelancer account.  But if fewer and fewer people are actually hiring on Upwork and you're not getting jobs, your Upwork account starts to be worth less and less.  It's a downward spiral.


I concur with all the points made in this thread, but the most likely *punishment* a freelancer will get for working with a client off platform is that they won't get paid. That's the primary reason Upwork exists, to provide payment protection for freelancers and clients, so anyone who goes off platform risks not being paid or not receiving services paid for. That's why you have to be totally desperate or naive to even consider going off platform.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 26

@John K wrote:

That's why you have to be totally desperate or naive to even consider going off platform.

 Or dumb.

Or greedy

 

yitwail
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
5 of 26

@Petra R wrote:

@John K wrote:

That's why you have to be totally desperate or naive to even consider going off platform.

 Or dumb.

Or greedy

 


 That too; I was giving the offenders the benefit of the doubt. Cat Wink

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
6 of 26

@John K wrote:

@Petra R wrote:

@John K wrote:

That's why you have to be totally desperate or naive to even consider going off platform.

 Or dumb.

Or greedy

 


 That too; I was giving the offenders the benefit of the doubt. Cat Wink


 You're more generous by nature and a much nicer a person than I am Smiley Happy

 

leeannmerrill
Community Leader
Lee Ann M Member Since: Feb 23, 2016
7 of 26

Yes, they might not get paid...on that job.  But that can and does happen in any business scenario.  I have also had it happen that against Upwork policy one client (unsuccessfully) tried to do a chargeback on my time after giving me a deadline and then disappearing, and I read plenty of stories in the forum of people who aren't getting paid, clients who trick them into working for free, etc. 

 

I am assuming that once a freelancer went "off-platform" on Upwork he/she would just stop using it because if people aren't hiring on it there's no point being there. And if clients are getting scammier and flakier, which it seems like they may be, the payment protection is worth less. So then it's back to old-school freelancing or finding some other platform.  I've never done either and have always been happy with Upwork, but most of my time on it in the past several months has been wasted on applying for jobs for which no one is ultimately hired.  That's new in my experience. 

 

I wrote about that on another thread, and a response I got back from someone who I think was even a moderator referred to Upwork as a pool of "warm leads" and didn't I prefer that to being out in the big cold world of "regular" freelancers.  Is that the way Upwork expects freelancers to view job listings now, as "warm leads"?  At least if someone else is hired you know it was a real job and there's always another one and maybe something you can learn by looking at the profile of the freelancer who got the job.  I have a hard time imagining Upwork thinks it's revolutionizing the world of freelancing by being a bank of "warm leads" for freelancers. To me, you'd have to be little desperate, as Petra refers to, to spend the preponderance of your time trying to sift real jobs from "warm leads" as opposed to using other available avenues to find work.

kat303
Community Guru
Kathy T Member Since: Jul 17, 2015
8 of 26

I'm noticing that a lot also. Clients posts a job, many freelancers submit proposals, one or 2 are in the interviewing stage and then nothing. No one is hired. Job stays open for 30 days and then expires. They are either taking it offsite, getting free work somehow (asking for tests or samples) or a freelancer does the work and submits it through their proposal hoping they will be hired since they've already done the job.

melaniekhenson
Community Guru
Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
9 of 26

@Kathy T wrote:

I'm noticing that a lot also. Clients posts a job, many freelancers submit proposals, one or 2 are in the interviewing stage and then nothing. No one is hired. Job stays open for 30 days and then expires. They are either taking it offsite, getting free work somehow (asking for tests or samples) or a freelancer does the work and submits it through their proposal hoping they will be hired since they've already done the job.


 

Or maybe the client is posting jobs on more than one site and hires someone elsewhere.

 

 

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
10 of 26

@Melanie H wrote:

@Kathy T wrote:

I'm noticing that a lot also. Clients posts a job, many freelancers submit proposals, one or 2 are in the interviewing stage and then nothing. No one is hired. Job stays open for 30 days and then expires. They are either taking it offsite, getting free work somehow (asking for tests or samples) or a freelancer does the work and submits it through their proposal hoping they will be hired since they've already done the job.


 

Or maybe the client is posting jobs on more than one site and hires someone elsewhere.

 

 


  • Or their own client pulled out
  • Or, after discussing their plans in depth, they found out that what they wanted to do was not possible to do with the budget they had
  • Or they lost their funding
  • Or the project was cancelled
  • Or they were run over by a bus
  • Or the whole thing was just one of several ideas and was shelved in favour of a different approach
  • Or their boss vetoed the project
  • Or they ran out of money
  • Or it was decided to do things in house
  • Or their nephew said at aunt Hilda's birthday party "I'll do that for you!"
  • Or...
  • Or...
  • Or...

 

Sure, disintermediation / circumvention is a real problem, but it would be wrong to assume that it is the reason for all or even most jobs that don't result in a hire.

 

Not everyone who goes into a shoe-store, tries on a few pairs of boots and leaves without having bought any has a pair hidden in their handbag.

TOP SOLUTION AUTHORS
TOP KUDOED MEMBERS