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tvelev
Member

Option to assign negative kudos

I would appreciate the feedback of the community if Upwork should incorporate the option to "dislike" a comment. The reason is that a lot of discussions water down due to different posting that are not related to the tipoc, do not contribute to the discussion, and generate responses that can take the discussion away from the original idea.

 

I have not been for long on the forum, so probably my listing is slightly short, but these are some types of posting that probably should get "dislike" kudos:

 

1. Direct offence or rude answer to another member. Some people could not hold their temper, and sometimes the responses are too harsh (probably). 

 

2. Generally offensive comments about the community, the opinions, the clients, etc. 

 

3. Improper jokes, that may fall under any of the two categories, or simply demonstarte bad manners / bad taste.

 

4. Some freelancers / clients (as they can have the two roles) sometimes write as if they are working for Upwork. I guess what we are looking here is the view of a client or freelancer; there are moderators to transmit the opinion and the policies of Upwork. Of course, it is highly appreciated when somebody explains how the system works, posts its ToS, etc., but going the extra mile to sound as Upwork employye...or subcontractor probably deserves "dislike" kudos.

 

Do you think this will streamline the discussions? Would you support such suggestion? 

50 REPLIES 50
lenaellis
Staff
Staff

Hi Todor,

 

Thanks for your feedback. We do not have any plans to implement a "dislike kudos" feature. However, if you see a post that you find offensive please report it here in the Community so that one of us moderators will be notified. 

 

-Lena

Untitled

Thank you, Lena,

 

I somehow would prefer that the community regulates itself, both in the good and in the bad;

 

I guess, if there is something outright offensive, people will report it. 

What is an improper joke?

I'm doomed, if there's every a complaint about an 'improper joke'... but I'll be sitting in the Upwork dustbin with some very cool people! 😉 

cclapper
Member

Just about every forum I have been on has ADD threads (topic drift or downright thread hijacking), improper jokes, and the other things you mention. I agree they are annoying, but when it starts to bug me, I just take a break from the forums.

 

There are a diverse group of people coming here and I don't know how you can regulate these things. This isn't a social platform, so I don't really care about a like/dislike button. I don't know if Upwork rewards people who collect the most kudos, but as far as I am concerned, that could go to. The only function it serves is to let me know that there are others here who think the way I do (or don't, whichever the case). And I already know I think differently than most. Smiley LOL

@Todor,

While I would not implement a "dislike post" button, I fully agree with everything else.

Matter of fact, your experience you complain about today, would have been a hundred times worse a few weeks ago.

You'd probably just leave all together. So take comfort in that.
---- easy like Sunday morning ----

@ Nicola L.

What is an improper joke?

 

I hope that the following saying is a good enough for getting the definition: "Pornography is hard to define, but when you see it, you know it". 

 

 

@ Setu M.

While I would not implement a "dislike post" button, I fully agree with everything else.

 

Well, I am just trying to originate a discussion what can be done to aleviate what "have been a hundred times worse a few weeks ago." Probably Upwork should take out the "Kudos" button, and make the discussions prone to posting only relevant opinions. 

So, let's add a Negative Kudo and penalize moderate jokes? That sounds like school to me 😕 Come on, we're grown up people here! We don't need a teacher to penalize or reward us for good behavior. Going through the harsh rules of the school system is enough for me. And that quoted joke is very far from an improper joke. In fact, it's very mild 🙂

I agree with what Cathleen has said, actually, and she just so happens to be someone I disagreed with a while ago. The thing is, Upwork has supplied this forum as a place where people can give their opinions, whether they agree with the thread or not. 

 

If someone has the right to make a statement, someone else has the right to disagree. Would the person who does not agree be necessarily wrong, and in this instance, would their point of view be deemed inappropriate...and if yes, by whom?

 

I believe freedom of speech should at all times be kept, regardless of whether I agree or not. 

 

Also, when 'policing' for want of a better word takes place, many people would stop taking part in the forum discussions at all, in effect, defeating the purpose of its original intention.

As for the title of this thread: option to asign negative kudos.

 

Why? If you are not in agreement with what someone has said, you have the right to say so. Why not exercise the right?

Todor:

 

You are right in everything you have said here.

 

But there will be no "negative kudo" button.

 

The button is not REALLY necessary.

 

There IS an option in the dropdown menu to "Report Inappropriate Content."

 

I find this option to be quite effictive, and it is one I use often. For example, I often move threads from one category to another using this option, and I often merge a redundant new thread into appropriate ongoing threads. And sometimes I have inappropriate posts removed entirely. It DOES work.

 

You also have the option to use the "reply" button to reply to a post and explain why the poster of that post was wrong or inappropriate, as long as you do so in an appropriate way.


Preston H wrote:For example, I often move threads from one category to another using this option, and I often merge a redundant new thread into appropriate ongoing threads.

 You move threads into other categories and you merge threads?

 

HOW?

re: "You move threads into other categories and you merge threads?

HOW?"

 

Petra:

Just like I implied in my post:

 

- I click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" option in the dropdown menu on the top right corner of a post.

- I am shown a text box in which I type "Please move this thread to Freelancers section." I click "Submit."

- An Upwork moderator looks at my message and acts on it, usually within a few hours.

 

Were I to make a suggestion that the Upwork moderator or workers don't agree with, obviously they would not act upon my request. But I'm judicious in my use of the "Report Inapproprate Content" button. I feel like I don't over-use it, and I feel like my requests are taken seriously because they are meant to be helpful and they comply with community guidelines.

 

For the record, I'm not about editing legitimate forum posts. Most of the time the only type of posts I flag for removal are spam from businesses trying to sell their junk or posts in which newbie contractors post their skill qualifications and/or resume, apparently clueless about the fact that they are supposed to do that on the main Upwork site, not in the Forum. I don't flag the posts of regular forum paticipants who actually know how to use the Forum.

Ah OK, so you don't actually merge or move anything, you report and someone else does.

 

It's a bit like saying you extinguished a house fire after calling the fire-brigade. Smiley Tongue

 

I thought you found some functionality to merge or move posts about.

re: "I thought you found some functionality to merge or move posts about."

 

I wish.

 

But no, I don't know of any functionality that you don't know about.

 

Actually, if I was able to have a wish granted for a special privilege on Upwork, it would be a "No Soup for You" button that I could use for any new contractor whose first post in the Forum is "I'm new on Upwork. Please tell me how to get a job fast." My button would block them from applying to any job for three months, to give them enough time to work on their profile and research how things work so they don't spend their first month of work annoying legitimate clients and getting scammed by illegitimate ones.


@Preston H wrote:

Actually, if I was able to have a wish granted for a special privilege on Upwork, it would be a "No Soup for You" button that I could use for any new contractor whose first post in the Forum is "I'm new on Upwork. Please tell me how to get a job fast." My button would block them from applying to any job for three months, to give them enough time to work on their profile and research how things work so they don't spend their first month of work annoying legitimate clients and getting scammed by illegitimate ones.


 Or those who have the ability to find the forum, and find a thread that answers their question, yet post the same question that has been answered about 10 times in the SAME thread....   So they're clearly not COMPLETELY devoid of brains, as they were able to find both the forum and the thread, but ... didn't find the answer (10 x repeated, just above their post asking the same question AGAIN?)

 

PS - Interesting how you edited that ...;)

I agree with the original posters. There are a few people who constantly ridicule the original poster, hijack threads or start in with the jokes that have nothing to do with the topic. This one is the most annoying as they start the joke and then everyone else piles on and the original poster is left frustrated that their question is not being answered. It didn't use to be that way here a number of months back. 


@Jean S wrote:

I agree with the original posters. There are a few people who constantly ridicule the original poster, hijack threads or start in with the jokes that have nothing to do with the topic. This one is the most annoying as they start the joke and then everyone else piles on and the original poster is left frustrated that their question is not being answered. It didn't use to be that way here a number of months back. 


Yes, I do agree with this too. Especially right now, when a lot of people depended on Elance/odesk/upwork to make a living. They are coming here to find answers and try and figure out how to use the site and get answers, and the thread diversions are annoying. Losing income and not being able to pay bills is not a big joke.

 

Maybe those who are hijacking could show a little compassion, and open up their own thread to discuss video games, or alligators, or whatever you are diverting a thread to.

don't go in the coffee break section Cathleen you might not like the positive vibes there. 🙂 

The only reason I come here is to keep watch on what was once a platform for me to make money (Elance) and see if anything is getting better. So no, I won't go to the coffee break section. Smiley Very Happy I check here, and I check the client section.

 

I don't use Upwork or Elance for a social platform, I have FB for that. But you have fun! 😉

Trust me Cathleen I always have fun.. even while I'm compiling a list of people most likely to report me for having for not being serious in the so serious freelancer section.. 😉 

 

I'd rather be here than Facebook to read what's being said in jest by the brilliant minds that love to have a bit of levity in their lives and then share that with others. 🙂

 


@Cathleen C wrote:

Maybe those who are hijacking could show a little compassion, and open up their own thread to discuss video games, or alligators, or whatever you are diverting a thread to.


 OK, Cathleen,

 

I apologize for the alligator comment but I really don't think I can be accused of not trying to help and answer serious questions with a practical answer.

 

So fine, let me find the alligator comment and remove it.

 

Jeez.


@Jean S wrote:

I agree with the original posters. There are a few people who constantly ridicule the original poster, hijack threads or start in with the jokes that have nothing to do with the topic. This one is the most annoying as they start the joke and then everyone else piles on and the original poster is left frustrated that their question is not being answered. It didn't use to be that way here a number of months back. 


Jean,

 

I don't agree with you many a time, but I do agree on this. There is a section for the joking around and having fun and some seem to think the forum is their own personal playground and it is ok to derail threads and start jokes.

 

There is a time and place for jokes and fooling around. It is very annoying to see pages of stupid remarks before one gets to the thread topic. 


@Suzanne N wrote:

@Jean S wrote:

I agree with the original posters. There are a few people who constantly ridicule the original poster, hijack threads or start in with the jokes that have nothing to do with the topic. This one is the most annoying as they start the joke and then everyone else piles on and the original poster is left frustrated that their question is not being answered. It didn't use to be that way here a number of months back. 


Jean,

 

I don't agree with you many a time, but I do agree on this. There is a section for the joking around and having fun and some seem to think the forum is their own personal playground and it is ok to derail threads and start jokes.

 

There is a time and place for jokes and fooling around. It is very annoying to see pages of stupid remarks before one gets to the thread topic. 


What bothers me the most is someone comes here with a problem that is urgent or important to them and then the bozo's decide to derail the threat for their own personal reasons.

 

This is very insulting to the original poster and completely demeans their request for help. The thing is...there's no need for it here when these people have the Coffee Room where they can joke to their hearts content.

 

It takes a special kind of disturbed personality to do this to people looking for help. Their own need to disrupt, see themselves in print and be the center of attention take presidence over all else. 

 

Many people will no longer bother posting here because they've been ridiculed by these people. That's just sad.

Thanks Preston for that wealth of information. 

Now Garnor doesn't have to reply to my question about reporting people for 'joking' or straying from the thread. I now know that anyone can report something and get a freelancer **edited for Community Guidelines** and possibly have them banned. Good to know.... 😉 

"... I believe freedom of speech should at all times be kept, regardless of whether I agree or not..."

 

Irene - how I agree with this and the rest of your post!

 

And I'm glad the majority are against 'gagging' which is what the OP's suggestion would result to. In any case, how much bruising can one suffer with the diligence of the mods on these forums and the options contributors have as explained by Preston?

 

Aah... we don't want to be too uptight really. Some joke here, some 'stupidity' there... It all helps you not sweat out the little problems on the platform (and the big ones, sometimes!)

 

What I've observed, anyway, is that for an OP in need of serious help, they always find a way of bringing contributors back on course when a thread seems to be diverging from the original spirit of the OP's post. But if you originate a post and then take three/four days before you check out the responses, you may find that what you initiated in English is now Greek, if not Latin... Smiley LOL

 

In short, if you are serious about your post, you need to follow it and give clarifications where you think other people are misunderstanding it, because it is not always about dry jokes. There are some posts that are very open to different interpretations and only the originator can help contributors focus accordingly.

 

 

natram
Member

"Probably Upwork should take out the "Kudos" button, and make the discussions prone to posting only relevant opinions."

 

This is a weird coincidence... (just thinking out loud)

 

Todor, there was a time when the forum did not have kudos and people were still very opinionated about different topics. If we go back in time and take a look at the old forum, there were fights on a regular basis and the dynamics between different individuals and groups were very clear. Some could be very rude to other posters to the point where people avoided the forum, posts were hijacked all the time and may I also add we had trolls that loved to stir the pot. I know you are new to the forum but old posters remember this. This was B.K. (Before Kudos).  

 

A lot of people offer help here (give it some time and you'll notice who they are). You will also notice who you tend to agree more or less with, and yes, some posters sound as if they work for Upwork (this is something that has been noticed many already). We can't always agree on everything and you can't avoid arguments. Just ignore the ones that don't bring something to the table and report the ones that are offensive to you.

 

The main difference between now and then is that the focus has shifted to Upwork's management (lack of transparancy among other things) and increased technical issues. One bug affects hundreds, if not thousands, of users at the same time so many of us will be frustrated and express our frustration about the same thing - at the same time. It is only natural that so many users agree with each other because we litteraly experience the same problems and can feel each others frustration. It only requires one poster to bring it up and kudos will drop in. 

 

By the way, kudos can represent different things so don't take it too seriously. It could be about a funny or clever comment someone said, or someone appreciateing help, solutions, or agreeing with complaints, etc. If you spend some time in the forum, you will notice people's characters and realize why they get their kudos. Even within the same comment you might agree or disagree with someone.

 

The bottom line is, you can't control or streamline a discussion by removing or adding Kudos buttons. We have seen this in the past when kudos were not even on the map. If you want to contribute or make your point heard in a discussion, then write a post or comment and/or reply to comments that are relevant to you or the topic. If someone is rude or offensive, let them know about it or report them.

 

Just out of curiousity, what do you think about the Top Solution Authors, Top Kudoed Members and Featured Contributor?

 

Report TOS violations, but adding a "I don't like what you said" button? 


Cover your eyes, step away from the forum, move on. A simple solution that does not require UW to spend the time adding a useless feature when there are more pressing issues to be dealt with. 

 

 

Thank you for all your comments! Let me see if I can summarize it:

 

  1. It seems that everybody agrees the problem exists…but it has no solution (or this is not the solution).
  2. If there are opinions, these are complete contrarian – while some suggest reporting to Upwork, other do not want to have somebody to control them…
  3. I had to add p.5 in my listing – irrelevant comments. There were some posting discussing the right to express somebody’s opinion…I am not sure anybody here spoke about the content, it was about the form. To report them to Upwork for watering down the discussion or changing the topic...seriously???

 

@ Natasa:

“Just out of curiousity, what do you think about the Top Solution Authors, Top Kudoed Members and Featured Contributor”

 

I am afraid I am still a rookie here, so my answers will be quite wild shots. If you ask me about the output of Most Kudoed Authors, there is no much to add to your comments above. If the Top Solutions are related to answering practical questions in practical manner, probably these should be the basis to build the Q&A section of Upwork. Still will not alleviate the problem of Preston with the “how to get my first job” postings, but might be of help.

 

But if you ask me about the authors, not the result of their contributions, it seems that some of them (and other members) are in danger to spend their whole personal and professional life on Upwork and on the community. This might be irreversible 🙂  

boshoffirene
Member

I was compiling a long post to address each of the original OP's points, made initially, and in summary, and then decided against it. I have a document that needs finishing. 

 

If I have caused any offense to his sensibilities, I heartily apologise. I shall endeavour to do my utmost not to do so again. 

I will follow the advice of Mercy and will try to bring back the discussion to the original topic :).

 

There were very few comments related to the topic itself, and I appreciate these very much. I will only reply to the members that probably misunderstood the proposal and I would like to bring them back to the forum and have their opinion.  

 

And Preston, it seems it works – I do not know who reported some of the postings, but they are removed! But I still keep on track with my proposal.

 

The reason to continue is simple – out of total of 30 postings (26, excluding mines), about only 6 are related to the topic. The rest are probably irrelevant (comments on topics that are of interest to the poster but not related to the central topic, jokes, exchange of advises, “let me post something while bored” type of messages, etc.). It makes that only 6 out of 26 postings are relevant (less than 25%). If we add the deleted postings, the percentage is even lower. It means two things:

  1. The problem is huge and there is a need to bring the attention of the posters to concentrate on the central question
  2. If 75% percent of the postings might be removed and this will not change the discussion, probably the community still is not ready for self regulation

 

But Let me try to answer in chronological order and see if we can get something positive out of this:

 

@ Nicola – “What is an improper joke?”

Hope now, after reading some postings (now deleted) in this discussion, you have a better feeling about “what is improper joke” . If clarified, and you agree with the rest, please let us know your opinion about the proposal to have negative kudos button (or "irrelevant comment" button).

 

@ Evelina – “We don't need a teacher to penalize or reward us for good behavior.”

Basically, now we have a teacher (Upwork) to be asked to intervene every time you think something is wrong. The proposal is to have the community regulating itself, without the need to ask the “teacher” to act; what do you think about that?

 

 

@ Irene and @ Cathleen – “I believe freedom of speech should at all times be kept, regardless of whether I agree or not.”

 

It is good to protect the freedom of speech….but probably at another discussion thread. The proposal is not to ban people from posting, just to get them a feedback that next time they decide to post it would be good to read and understand what the discussion topic is about. This will hugely reduce the volume of irrelevant postings. Everybody can post; and everybody could tell the poster to go and waste time at another discussion topic. What do you think about this?

 

@ Irene – “As for the title of this thread: option to asign negative kudos. Why? If you are not in agreement with what someone has said, you have the right to say so. Why not exercise the right?”

 

Ha-ha, it seems it is also good to comment on the topic. Think how people hit the kudo button and if they post always “I like your posting” comment or not. Hope this helps; and I guess most people will simply pass an irrelevant comment instead of posting “What is this about” question. I guess your question is rhetoric as the answer is evident….which basically makes your posting supportive to the proposal

 

@ Cairenn – “Cover your eyes, step away from the forum, move on. A simple solution that does not require UW to spend the time adding a useless feature when there are more pressing issues to be dealt with.”

 

Imagine the discussion topic is of interest for a lot of people from the community, but the discussion is constantly shifting and gets derailed due to exchange of advises and jokes that are irrelevant (not offensive or something else, simply irrelevant). And if these are the “more pressing issues to be dealt with.”? Probably this is the reason to start this discussion topic – read the comments of Setu, Preston, Natasa – they all agree this is a problem. How would you suggest to act – to abandon?

 

@ Irene – “I was compiling a long post to address each of the original OP's points, made initially, and in summary, and then decided against it. I have a document that needs finishing.”

 

Well. I will really appreciate if you could post your opinion. Finally, the time has come…and you are not left with time…? Please, find the time.


@Todor V wrote:

  1. The problem is huge and there is a need to bring the attention of the posters to concentrate on the central question
  2. If 75% percent of the postings might be removed and this will not change the discussion, probably the community still is not ready for self regulation

 Nobody (other than the moderators) are paid to be on the forum.

 

People are here for all sorts of reasons, but frankly unless you pay me I (personally) will respond to any give post or thread exactly how I like. It is my time. Because it is my time I won't be told what exactly to concentrate on. If you would like to pay me I will concentrate on what you pay me to concentrate on during the time you are paying me to concentrate on it.

 

Clearly everyone has to stick to basic rules, and people are frequently reminded when they stray or get too stroppy or whatever.

 

I don't see how this forum is different to other forums; different characters and temperaments and cultural backgrounds and personalities get together and discuss stuff. Things get heated, threads get jacked, people throw hissy fits, others slink into a corner to sulk. It's the Internet. It's been like that since the good old days of Usenet (Anyone remember that? The great-grandfather of forums?)

 

Personally I come to the forum between working, (usually when I switch between my two main contracts, to clear my mind somewhat.) When I do I answer questions if I know the answer, and have a bit of fun with "my colleagues" and I think that's why the majority of regulars are here. Some come in mainly to complain, others swim in and out when they have a question. Others post once and are never seen again.

 

I don't see the point of negative kudos, nor do I see how it would actually improve what you perceive to be the problem. Maybe an "ignore" button would be better which many forums have, so if someone really irritates you you can opt to never see their posts again and peace is restored. It works pretty well driving trolls away from other forums because when enough people ignore them they don't get the attention they are so desperate for and go away.


@Petra R wrote:

 

I don't see the point of negative kudos, nor do I see how it would actually improve what you perceive to be the problem. Maybe an "ignore" button would be better which many forums have, so if someone really irritates you you can opt to never see their posts again and peace is restored. It works pretty well driving trolls away from other forums because when enough people ignore them they don't get the attention they are so desperate for and go away.


 

Thank you, Petra,

 

I am not sure where you want to get to with this posting, but the final paragraph is exactly the solution I am looking for! The "ignore" button is a very good point!!

 


Todor V wrote

I am not sure where you want to get to with this posting,

 


 Which part may I clarify for you?


@Petra R wrote:


 Which part may I clarify for you?


 

Petra, it seems that there is another thread about the freedom of speach, as there are some posting as if people are coming from the other discussion and "discharge" their thoughts here :). Of course everybody has the right to write whatever he/she thinks; and the rest of the community has the right to tell them to go and post comments not related to the topic at another place. Assuming this is abvious (which does not seem to be the case for all of us), the questions here is: how to let them know that what they posted is irrelevant for the specific discussion topic?

 

This is the reason I find your suggestion for "ignore" button helpful. I am a guy from the B&M world, have no idea how it works, but seem to be reduce the level of "noise" in the discussions. 

..................................

Petra, it seems that there is another thread about the freedom of speach, as there are some posting as if people are coming from the other discussion and "discharge" their thoughts here Smiley Happy. Of course everybody has the right to write whatever he/she thinks; and the rest of the community has the right to tell them to go and post comments not related to the topic at another place. Assuming this is abvious (which does not seem to be the case for all of us), the questions here is: how to let them know that what they posted is irrelevant for the specific discussion topic?

..................................

 

The problem with this is that what you think is irrelevant to the original issue, might be very relevant to the person who wrote the comment. Your very post actually includes and example of this; you believe that people that are mentioning freedom of speech in this topic are venting about something that belongs into another toopic, yet to these people - at least presumably - the option to "dislike" a post is very much a matter of freedom of speach. We all have our subjective views about issues, and the connections we make to other issues are personal. For someone to say that they think we are talking nonsense can be very hurtful, which is why I personally find the idea of a negative kudos bizarre. To me, it seems like a tool that is mainly good for bullying people and causing them anger\hurt, which in turn hardly would work in favour of calming the waters or building a better community. Do we really want to add tools to spread negative vibes? 

 

While I can understand that thread hijacking and excessive and\or insensitive jokes are usually bad for "quality" conversation, it also is worth noticing that human discussions are full of nonsense. If our talks with our peers were recorded and then later listened to, the way conversations evolve is often nothing short of bizarre. I think it's very natural that this phenomenom is present at online forums as well. In fact I find it peculiar how we are so strict with setting parameters for a discussion when it is in a written form. I am not saying this is wrong, but when you think about how people normally talk to each other, offline, it is very strange, isn't it?

 

If the problem really seems to be a large one, I agree with Petra's idea that an ignore-button would serve the same purpose in a much better way.

Bravo Petra!

I kinda keep wishing there was a limit for number of posts per user per 24 hours (Coffee Break excluded).

Thank you, Sandra,

 

Very good point! It will definitely make some people think before they write and move from thread to thread :)!