PLEASE! Let Freelancer's Contact Clients for Clarification Prior to Using Connect Points!!!!

[#1]

PLEASE! In the name of all that's good and holy! And in the name of just doing the right thing!

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE give freelancers the ability to communicate with clients, PRIOR to using our connects, so we can obtain necessary information about the project when clients have neglected to provide all the information we need in order to determine if the project is something we can even do with any degree of confidence or, indeed, if it's something we can even do at all! Or if it's something we even WANT to do! Without the ability to get this information we risk wasting our precious connects. And this situation will be even worse for freelancers when we have to actually PAY for the connects!  

The number of job postings that are incredibly vague or that are missing pertinent information is rampant on this site! Job post after job post after job post! It has become intolerable. 

And PLEASE don't respond with your tired old line: "We are exploring ways to solve this issue." You have been spouting that line forever and a day. It's meaningless. It's like the old story about the boy who cried wolf. We no longer believe you. PLEASE! JUST DO IT BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO! 

[#2]

OMG! Not only a sympathetic ear but someone with an excellent idea to boot! Be still my heart! A sure sign that everything is going to be okay or that the world is about to end! I can't decide which! 

I hereby officially announce my availability to join Denise in volunteering to write an "educational" text for clients posting jobs for Book Cover Design. 

Thank you, Denise, for that brilliant suggestion!

Ten Thousand Kudos to you!!!

May you live long and prosper!

[#3]

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Gary Val T wrote:

OMG! Not only a sympathetic ear but someone with an excellent idea to boot! Be still my heart! A sure sign that everything is going to be okay or that the world is about to end! I can't decide which! 

I hereby officially announce my availability to join Denise in volunteering to write an "educational" text for clients posting jobs for Book Cover Design. 

Thank you, Denise, for that brilliant suggestion!

Ten Thousand Kudos to you!!!

May you live long and prosper!

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Two things:

1) Asking for fields a client would have to fill in on a job post for more clarity is nothing new and has been suggested many times in the past, and like all good suggestions, always fell on deaf ears.

2) Using connects to bid on jobs is never a "waste". You're self-employed, a business-owner. All businesses have expenses. That's what a connect is, it's a business expense. Perhaps not using the word "waste" will make it easier to bid on vague RFPs including any questions you may have. We can't say "connects are free" anymore, but we can still say they're the cost of doing business.

[#4]

"We can't say "connects are free" anymore, but we can still say they're the cost of doing business."

That may be true but the infuriating part of it is that they could achieve the same goal of reducing the number of spammy proposals by simply letting the connects remain free but reduce the number of them alotted to each freelancer. When the connects are a limited resource then the freelancers would be more discriminating in their use of them. But no, UpWork had to go and implement the option that would bleed more money out of the freelancers. I mean, c'mon. We're already taking a huge hit in the wallet from the outrageous 20% fee they take out of our pay. What's next? A fee for posting in this community forum? Honestly, I would not be be surprised.   

[#5]

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Gary Val T wrote:

"We can't say "connects are free" anymore, but we can still say they're the cost of doing business."

That may be true but the infuriating part of it is that they could achieve the same goal of reducing the number of spammy proposals by simply letting the connects remain free but reduce the number of them alotted to each freelancer.

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Not really, the spammies then just buy connects or create multiple accounts.

The only other option would be to radically weed out the marketplace and kick out 50% +++ of the freelancerbase.

Anyone under 90% JSS? Out you go.

Anyone without earnings in the past 60 days? Suspended

Not top rated? ByeBye....

[#6]

outrageous 20% fee

Getting a website (your profile), marketing, getting leads, getting an invoicing and AR capability costs businesses more than 20% of revenue in most cases. And, most of the costs are incurred before any revenue is received. Twenty percent is not outrageous.

@Petra, you are the number one expert in the platform and your domains. Under your suggestions, because not all freelancing is alike, many excellent and productive freelancers would be removed. I believe you sub-consciously chose retention characteristics that would benefit you.

[#7]

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Bill H wrote:

@ Petra - Under your suggestions, because not all freelancing is alike, many excellent and productive freelancers would be removed. I believe you sub-consciously chose retention characteristics that would benefit you.

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I didn't say it should be done, I did not "make a suggestion" - I mentioned it (more as a warning, to be honest) because if Upwork didn't start charging, that would be (and still may have to be) an alternative to achieve what needs to be achieved.

It also isn't without precedence, they did a purge back in.., 2014? 2015? It wasn't enough.

[#8]

1) Well maybe now that they are changing the connects system they should have a way to get clients to provide more information. I want to get what I pay for with connects even if they don't cost much which to me is seeing a decent description for what I am bidding on and applying for it. I am perfectly fine with paying more for connects as are most but something does need to be done about the lack of descriptions on job postings either way and clients using $5000+ as a placeholder bid. 

2) You are right and I do see it as a business expense that is actually fine for me, but it is actually wasting the connect if you bid on any job with lack of description. Fine then don't right? Well there are a ton of places Even the clients who have lack of description deserve their job to be looked at, but it can't be unless they give me details. So I don't see the problem with trying to find ways to make that happen. I do not think having a chat window will work for multiple reasons but especially that freelancers will drive clients nuts, but there are things upworks can do like what Gary/Denise mentioned about having actual FAQs that freelancers typically ask at the client's disposal and having it so they need to write so many words, etc. Whatever works best in that regard. If upworks are changing the way it works with connects they really should fix this description problem too so freelancers have that information to make a good bid and proposal that is tailored to the client's needs. 

[#9]

I've always thought the best way to handle this would be to add a flag for "insufficient information" and then have an automated message go out to the client after a few flags that said something like, "Freelancers are reporting that your job posting does not contain sufficient information to make an informed bid. Add detail to get better and more targeted proposals."

[#10]

I think that is also good Tiffany, but I do also think the FAQs thing I mentioned would be good for clients because it helps them learn what questions freelancers normally have so they can utilize it to make excellent postings and freelancers can make tailored proposals based on those answers. Just having a flag and then informing the client how they didn't do good enough doesn't help them get to the goal of knowing what they should tell freelancers to help them make tailored proposals. Your idea does help Upworks recognize it though and perhaps they could email them a link to a FAQs like I proposed or like how Denise mentioned. 

I think a key is to get clients to their goals by helping them provide the information and educating them on the best way to do that in order for them to get the right freelancers applying for their jobs while also feeling confident that they will discover good freelancers on Upworks. 

Just flagging them and having Upworks tell them "hey this isn't enough info" may just scare them off but giving them information on the things they could tell a freelancer to help their job will make them feel more confident in the platform and thus in the freelancers they will be trying to hire. It will also help them in making any future posts because they will be much more informed on the type of questions freelancers have for  the specific job type. 

From the client's prespective they just want an easy way to post the job and get freelancers talking to them about their project and the method of having an optional FAQ they can read right next to them as they make a job post is a good tool to have. Flagging them will help too in the way you said as long as they understand what they should do to make changes to the post so it is more informative. 

[#11]

Amanda, I agree with you that it would be a useful resource, but I have two concerns. The first is that I believe the vast majority of clients wouldn't bother to read it, even after being advised that more information was needed. The second is that Upwork has a tendency to lump things that don't really relate together and miss critical distinctions (the other day, I saw a java developer mention having been grilled by Upwork staff about a javascript concept in his verification call, for instance). Unless someone with experience in each field were appointed to head up that effort, it could easily do more harm than good. 

[#12]

You are right there will certainly still be clients who don't use it, but if you keep pointing at it to clients that keep having issues, then you will see some improvements and there will be those who use it. You could really say that about anything that upworks adds, that people might not use it, but from a user experience it makes sense to have. Reddit does something similar and it does actually cut down a lot of garbage posts people make. They have something with FAQs to help people understand how to use the forum properly for different subjects.

If you place an FAQs right next to the job post form and clearly point it out and make it prominent, I am positive there will be clients looking at iti who aren't sure about what to ask. This could at the very least be tested! 

This would be an instance where it would be nice to have and create an actual good, searchable FAQs for each industry that has relavent information so clients can have it at their disposal. I am talking here about having simple bullet point suggestions of things to ask for different project types. 

About Upworks inability to understand what certain job types do, there are people here who already volunteered to help give some reliable FAQs for their respective profession and I am sure some others wouldn't mind giving that information so they can get descriptive posts from clients. To add, these basic questions for most jobs can easily be linked to or just used as a resource to make these questions (I'd have experienced people look it over though in a survey or something) 

I don't see how it could be a bad thing if it is done properly. 

[#13]

Amanda - You should be running UpWork. I don't say that in jest. You are one bright, intelligent woman who actually "gets it". 

[#14]

Nah, lol. I feel like everyone's suggestions here have been good and could help. Tiffany and others had some really good ideas too and that flagging thing would help and I do think a FAQs for clients would help. I just hope Upworks reads this stuff and considers ways to improve it from what has been suggested.

Ideas are good to put in the forum in general and if they see ideas they like I am sure they'll test them. 

[#15]

< I've always thought the best way to handle this would be to add a flag for "insufficient information" and then have an automated message go out to the client after a few flags that said something like, "Freelancers are reporting that your job posting does not contain sufficient information to make an informed bid. Add detail to get better and more targeted proposals." >

EXCELLENT suggestion! It'll never happen but excellent suggestion nevertheless. 

[#16]

Same here, I would be happy to write what different graphic design jobs typically need to get started. 

[#17]

If freelancers are allowed to ask questions, then you can bet on it that instead of submitting a proposal through the use of connects, they will submit their proposal in the "questions" area and wouldn't have to pay anything to do that. And if freelancers don't have to pay, instead of having 20, 30 or more freelancers submitting proposals, the clients will be receiving 100's of proposals. And that would be especially true now that freelancers have to pay for connects.

Besides that, the client will be spammed, with responses such as, hire me, why didn't you hire me, and probably harassed. Upwork wouldn't be able to contain the numbers of freelancers responding that way. It would drive clients to other freelancing sites. 

As others, I remember Elancie having that function. (as well as $50 minimums for fixed rate jobs) and 90% of the time, (if not more) the clients never answered or responded to any questions, even legitimate ones. 

[#18]

There are job posts with good descriptions, and there are job posts with vague descriptions, no descriptions, typos, some can't even spell their city right. Those are people that don't respect their project. I always skip those and save myself a lot of headaches that way, and connects too.

[#19]

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Martina P wrote:

There are job posts with good descriptions, and there are job posts with vague descriptions, no descriptions, typos, some can't even spell their city right. Those are people that don't respect their project. I always skip those and save myself a lot of headaches that way, and connects too.

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I do, too. But, in some fields, inadequate information is the norm. 

[#20]

Then What is the purpose of selling the connects 😄 hahah  Do you really think they thinks about Me and You ???

[#21]

Worst idea ever. As a FL, I share your frustration with clients who can't pull up their socks and write halfway decent job descriptions. As a client, I assure you that if FLs could contact me without submitting a proposal, I would never post another job here, ever. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Letting FLs contact clients with questions would, indeed, be helpful for professional FLs trying to scope out opportunties among less experienced/less adept clients. But it would open up professional clients to virtual mauling-by-message on the part of less experienced/clueless FLs.

Having to put real money on the line, even 15 cents, is going to make FLs be more selective about the job posts they respond to. That, in turn, will have some effect toward starving out the worst clients/projects. The environment will be less welcoming for bottom-feeding clients and bottom-feeding FLs. That's a good thing for everybody else.

If spending 15-90 cents to vet a potential opportunity is beyond a FL's means, then they need to look hard at their business model and figure out how to make it work better here, or go somewhere else. FLs who find the expense unacceptable on principle should, likewise, vote with their feet. There's absolutely no reason to use a platform that either doesn't make sense financially or violates one's principles.

[#22]

Having seen many job posts such as "I need some help", maybe a required minimum word count would help?

Then they could post "I need some help xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" 🤣