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PLEASE! Let Freelancer's Contact Clients for Clarification Prior to Using Connect Points!!!!

PLEASE! In the name of all that's good and holy! And in the name of just doing the right thing!

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE give freelancers the ability to communicate with clients, PRIOR to using our connects, so we can obtain necessary information about the project when clients have neglected to provide all the information we need in order to determine if the project is something we can even do with any degree of confidence or, indeed, if it's something we can even do at all! Or if it's something we even WANT to do! Without the ability to get this information we risk wasting our precious connects. And this situation will be even worse for freelancers when we have to actually PAY for the connects!  

 

The number of job postings that are incredibly vague or that are missing pertinent information is rampant on this site! Job post after job post after job post! It has become intolerable

 

And PLEASE don't respond with your tired old line: "We are exploring ways to solve this issue." You have been spouting that line forever and a day. It's meaningless. It's like the old story about the boy who cried wolf. We no longer believe you. PLEASE! JUST DO IT BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO! 

 

 

 

 

45 REPLIES 45
lysis10
Member

lol neva gonna happen


Jennifer M wrote:

lol neva gonna happen


And with good reason ...


Virginia F wrote:


And with good reason ...


It used to be allowed on elance long long ago and it was an absolute poopshow.


@lysis10 wrote:

Virginia F wrote:


And with good reason ...


It used to be allowed on elance long long ago and it was an absolute poopshow.

 

Yep, I remember. All you have to do is consider the numbers of unprofessional freelancers (a quick look at forum threads will point them out) on this site and extrapolate what allowing them to badger clients would achieve. Badgered clients ... that's what. Clients don't need no stinkin' badgers.



Virginia F wrote:

 

Yep, I remember. All you have to do is consider the numbers of unprofessional freelancers (a quick look at forum threads will point them out) on this site and extrapolate what allowing them to badger clients would achieve. Badgered clients ... that's what. Clients don't need no stinkin' badgers.



Oh I didn't know you were an elance old timer like myself 😄

 

You remember the carnage. It was entertaining though. 


@lysis10 wrote:

Virginia F wrote:

 

Yep, I remember. All you have to do is consider the numbers of unprofessional freelancers (a quick look at forum threads will point them out) on this site and extrapolate what allowing them to badger clients would achieve. Badgered clients ... that's what. Clients don't need no stinkin' badgers.



Oh I didn't know you were an elance old timer like myself 😄

 

You remember the carnage. It was entertaining though. 

 

Yeah, I was there, and it was carnage. As a matter of fact, a job I picked up today was an Elance client from 2015 - and they're still honoring that sweet Elance fee.  🙂



Virginia F wrote:

 

Yeah, I was there, and it was carnage. As a matter of fact, a job I picked up today was an Elance client from 2015 - and they're still honoring that sweet Elance fee.  🙂



yeah! that's pretty awesome. My one elance client is at 5% but I have another that shows up about once a year and she's at that 8.x%.

Hi Jennifer,

What about a one-time-only option to contact the client prior to bidding on the job? How much poop could that generate?


Gary Val T wrote:

Hi Jennifer,

What about a one-time-only option to contact the client prior to bidding on the job? How much poop could that generate?


So...one contact times...what? 100 freelancers? 250 freelancers? It's free, so why not 1,000? And what percentage of those will be pathetic attempts at back door bids to avoid spending thirty cents?

 

How many do you think the client will respond to? How many will the client even READ before fleeing the platform forever? 

Okay, Tiffany, then how about UpWork informing potential clients that they should be prepared to be deluged with questions if their job description doesn't include as much pertinent information as they can possibly think of? Is that asking too much? No need to reply. I already know your answer. Smiley Wink


Gary Val T wrote:

Okay, Tiffany, then how about UpWork informing potential clients that they should be prepared to be deluged with questions if their job description doesn't include as much pertinent information as they can possibly think of? Is that asking too much? No need to reply. I already know your answer. Smiley Wink


Actually, you've missed the point completely. As those who went through this on Elance will attest, clients who do a great job of providing thorough information will be no less deluged.

Okay. You win. I give up. 


Gary Val T wrote:

Okay. You win. I give up. 


May as well. You won't change Upwork's mind.

 

I'm curious, though, about what information you need to decide whether to bid on a book cover job when your profile indicates that you'll work on any type of book.

That’s true, Tiffany, I will work on any kind of book. But only if what the author wants on the cover is something I’m confident I can do and do really well. For example, if they want a custom illustration of a character from the book I know I may not be the best guy for the job because I’m not particularly good at illustrating people, especially if the client is hoping for anything close to what’s generally referred to as “photo realism”. If it doesn’t have to be photo-realistic then I might be okay with it. But even if I’m okay with it, I have to consider that I’d be trying to create an image of a person whose physical attributes are likely already described in the book. That greatly increases the challenge and will likely result in several revisions based on the author’s feedback. This, in turn, increases the amount of time that will be invested in the job. And we haven’t even mentioned the visual context in which the character will be placed. Will it be a relatively simple background or something more complex? 

 

I also want to know if the book is fiction or nonfiction. If fiction, what is the genre? If nonfiction, what is the subject matter? The style of the artwork and the overall appearance for each is quite different. A good book cover will immediately convey the genre if fiction or the subject matter if nonfiction. I want to know these things for various reasons not the least of which is that, in every case, I want the cover to be as good, if not better, than the covers created by the designers employed by any of the big name publishing houses. That, really, is what every author is hoping to get. If it happens that, for whatever reason, I don’t feel I can meet that challenge then I won’t even bother with the job. But it's something I'd like to know before using my connects to bid on the job. 

 

I would also like to know if the author already has an idea of what they want on the cover or if they’re going to leave it up to me. Either one is a challenge in it's own way. But if I’m going to create something based on the author’s idea, I know based on over 12 years of experience, that it will likely require less time than if I have to come up with something on my own. I won’t bother to explain, here, why that’s the case. It just is.

 

I’d also like to know if the book is completely written or if it’s still a work in progress. I need to know because, if the book is still being written, that means the final page count has not yet been established. The page count determines the width of the spine portion of the cover if it’s going to be published as a paperback or hardbound as opposed to an ebook which, obviously, only requires a “front cover” image. Not having the final page count adds another level of difficulty to the design process in the case of a full wrap cover due to the actual dimensional requirements of the artwork in order to fit the book when it goes to press. This scenario could possibly lead to complications which would lead to more time to complete the job.

 

I also want to know which company will be manufacturing the book when it’s done. Why? Because various publishing services may have somewhat differing specifications for the cover art and, if by chance, the author is going to publish via a certain well-established company (whose name I won’t mention here) I will pass on the job because that company is too much of a pain to deal with.

 

So there ya go. Those are some of the things I’d like to know before using my connects to bid on the job. More often than not, job posts for book cover design work are void of any kind of helpful detail concerning what they want on the cover. Time and time again I see things like "Need a cover that is unique and really striking." Or, "Need a really eye-catching book cover." Or, my favorite, "Need a cover that will make my book a best-seller!" LOL! Well, okay, those are all fine and dandy headlines for the job post but the problem is that the actual body of the post is often not much more than a repeat of the job title with little else (if anything) to help me really get a feel for what will be required of me as the designer and whether or not I should even bother bidding on the job. 

 

Now, to be fair, I do know that the vast majority of people posting jobs for someone to design their book cover are first-time authors who have never been involved in the process of getting a book cover designed. That may account for the lack of detailed information in many of the posts. I am more than happy to educate them but I'd rather do it before I use my precious connects to contact them. That way we'd both get a better idea of what each of us will be getting ourselves into. Another probable reason for the vague posts is that I'll bet most clients don't realize the freelancer's situation when it comes to the connect points. They probably don't even know there are such things as connect points. They probably just think we can apply for the job at no cost to us. Therefore, they imagine if anyone is interested in the job they'll apply for it and any further information can easily be exchanged during an interview. I like to think if most of them understood the situation on the freelancer's end, maybe they would be more inclined to include more information in their job posts. I dunno. Am I just dreaming? ("You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." - J. Lennon) Smiley Wink

Yeah I agree with Gary, designers, illustrators, web devs, and I am sure more certainly always need as much information as the client can give because there are lots of different styles and specifics that are needed to create the work. 

 

However, I don't agree to have any form of chat for freelancers to talk to clients prior to hiring. I do think something needs to be done about clients giving no information.

 

Why not have it so that when the client is making the description at first that upworks takes out the "this job was posted from a mobile phone" as that is certainly making the descriptions much more vague for the majority of the time that it is posted up with a job because clients then write less and excuse themselves that they are on a mobile phone with the scripted text. "This job was posted from a mobile device, so please pardon any typos or any missing details."

 

Then also when the client first writes the description, have something written there to ask the client to give as much information as possible so that freelancers can understand their exact needs for the project and that more information will help give them better results. Make it so they have to write at least a paragraph or 2 describing what they need as the usual bad descriptions have only 1-2 sentences that don't have any detail. Maybe even on the side give them good examples of how they should write a good description. Perhaps upworks could ask freelancers what information they normally need and try to get the client to write that information. 

Gary, that's a good rundown of considerations. I'm familiar with all of those considerations, as I own a small publishing company (though it's been dormant for several years) and have self-published multiple books. Wanting to know all of that before embarking on the project makes sense. Most of it, though, seems like it wouldn't be critical to deciding whether or not you'd want the job--that seems to come down mostly to the style of illustration. 

Still, I'm glad you took the time to write all of that out, because (as you obviously know) most of what you've laid out there comes as a complete shock to most authors self-publishing for the first time. 

I'm not sure what channels you use outside of Upwork, but a good website or blog with that type of information could become a good source of prospects for you.

Illustration for a book cover is a type of marketing form as well and having as much information is important to be able to create it. It is important to know the target audience for one and the genre of the book. I do in fact think that Gary would need the information he is looking for and as much as possible would help him in making his cover right for the client.

 

Just because there are some types of jobs where you don't need so much information doesn't mean there aren't tons of other professions where you need it. Mine is one where you always need as much information in order to give the client what they need and for making the job proposal. 

 

So yes, a lot of what he said is needed in fact and most clients are not providing this basic information and in multiple areas of expertises as well. If they did their job posts would get better proposals and they have a better chance of completing the job successfully with information. There are some clients who are often unsure about what to ask which is why I think FAQs on the side or somewhere prominent for them while they are writing would be useful. You could have it listed by job type and it is like an accordian style dropdown or something simple for the UI, maybe even opening in another page so they can see it while they write.It shows some normal questions freelancers ask about the specific job type. For example, What information do freelancers ask for logo design? Some examples of what things you can tell freelancers in your job post: Freelancers want to know what your company does, what style of logo you may want, if you have any specific custom requirements, Is there an existing brand, what is your target audience, etc.   These could just be bullet points to make it simple maybe and also not be too overwhelming with just enough to start for the freelancer to make the bid, so a small list of things that could help in making a good description. 

 

It is such a simple thing to do and in a paragraph above the job posting area for the client it could state to try to be as descriptive as you can to help your project's success, and if you need any help on what is typically useful for a freelancer to know, see the FAQs on your left or at this link.

 

You will probably still get clients who don't post good ones but at least in doing this you are helping a lot of client make the job more descriptive which will help achieve the ultimate goal of clients being happy because an informed freelancer is one who should be able to come up with solutions and give a tailored proposal based on the information they are given. 

Amanda - Holy smokes! You have my vote for becoming the new top tier CEO of UpWork! Your suggestion is spot on! Seriously, SPOT-freaking-ON!  I actually thought I heard a massive chorus of angelic voices rising in a joyous "Hallelujah!" Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears. It's so good, so well thought out and makes so much sense, that it would cause the decision-makers at UpWork to shudder in horror and reject it immediately. Still, thank you for a moment of hope, fleeting though it was.


Gary Val T wrote:

Hi Jennifer,

What about a one-time-only option to contact the client prior to bidding on the job? How much poop could that generate?


plz sir give me job

They're never gonna do that because that would be the fastest way to lose clients. Nobody will want to post a job if it means getting flooded with people harrassing them about it rather than going through the proper procedure of submitting a proposal. And they definitely won't want to have someone apply, then start badgering them constantly about "Have you looked at my proposal why haven't you looked at it justhiremealreadypleeeeeasssseeee!"

 

If you see a job that has vague information, just assume the client doesn't know what they want, and that it won't be a good fit. And if the job is really vague on everything, you can always flag it as "There is no clear, defined deliverable."

 

tl;dr You can plead all you want, but they're never going to allow people to cold-contact clients, as that would defeat the entire purpose of having connects, and drive clients off the platform at the same time.

Okay, then limit it to one pre-bid contact just to get the needed information. 

resultsassoc
Member

I see you are located in the USA. Why are you concerned about wasting connects? That is understandable in an area where a package of connects might cost three days' earnings. They are relatively inexpensive for you.

 

All freelancing sites share some commonalities. The first is that the primary source of income for the site is fees charged to freelancers when they are paid by a client. The only one bringing much money to the table is the client. The sites protect clients from being overwhelmed by freelancer messages.

 

I often represent my clients when sourcing services. I tell prospective suppliers that they may not contact my client directly. My clients have businesses to run. When invited to apply you will get all relevant information about the client, but I still prefer you communicate through me. I want to help providers deal effectively with my clients.

 

The nature of clients who use these boards is that they assume the providers need little information in order to respond. That's not intolerable, it's an opportunity to differentiate yourself. Ask smart and relevant questions at the beginning of your response. Asking questions promotes answers, and now you're in a dialog, where the work you want is done. Clients are like everybody else, they prefer to talk about themselves. You can display interest in the client with questions, and get the client to give you information others don't have. I love vague job posts, and you should, also.

 

Other than me, I don't know any client who intentionally leaves out information. I do that to find out which responders are interested in me and my company, how much they know about what I do, and how interested they are. I use that to filter applicants. The typical response is "Hire Me!!! Hire Me!!!" Anybody who asks a question gets interviewed, the others go to the bottom of the pile.

 

I have a default book cover designer/graphic artist because I have few visual skills. I tell her about the book and the audience for which it is written. She performs magic, and I'm happy. I ordered a book cover from an Indian firm pretending to be in Canada. They complained that I didn't give them a sample of the cover I wanted so they could apply their skills and tweak it. I depend on my default artist to understand what works best. I left a scathing review for the lazy freelancer.

 

You should be able to contact the client from data connected to the job posting. If s/he has posted five or more jobs, the client's name is in feedback. The company name is often in previous postings. You do look at that, right? "Need a new logo for an artist, Gary Val Tudball, LLC, in Everett Washington." That tells you what the company is. Client location is often indicated in information about the job, say, Seattle. "Need consultant for company that specializes in remediation of aardvark flatulence." How many of those can there be?

 

I have many criticisms of UW, but allowing freelancers to contact the client before submitting a response isn't one of them. If you're smart you can figure out who the client is, and address your response "Dear Mr. Tudball," Now you're ahead of the curve. You can demonstrate interest in the client with smart questions, putting you ahead of most of your competition.

 

What looks to you like a problem is actually an opportunity.

Good points. However, most of my customers are not businesses. 99% of them are authors needing book cover design for a one-off project. As you suggested, I do check the feedback from their previous jobs and often am able to identify the client but only by first name only. No help there.

 

Regarding asking questions of the client (after I've used my connects to bid on the project), I always do that because, like you said, clients love to talk about themselves and their projects. But most of the time my most important reason for asking questions is to get the information I need about the project, necessary information that they didn't include in the job post. All too often, the information I receive turns out to be such that I discover the job is not for me. So the connects I used have gone to waste.

 

A one-time pre-bid contact with the client would be a valuable option for freelancers who, like me, are frustrated by this situation.

Although I'm not an illustrator, my field--editing, mostly books and articles--is close enough to Gary's that I have similar concerns, because I frequently encounter similar problems in posted jobs. Specifically, clients say they have a book or article they wanted edited, but don't reveal how long the project is. Sometimes they say how long the book or article is--but in page numbers, not as a word count--without revealing whether they mean single-spaced manuscript pages, double-spaced manuscript pages, book proofs, etc., all of which take vastly different amounts of time to edit. They rarely reveal whether a manuscript is in Word or is a pdf--and a pdf typically takes two or three times as long to edit as a Word doc with the same word count does.

 

In short, I am sympathetic to Gary's concerns. Since the consensus seems to be a generalized worry that clients will be inundated with questions from clueless freelancers and backdoor bidders, the solution might be better education for clients. This may require a different "educational text" for each type of job posting (text editing, translation, coding, etc.), perhaps a paragraph for each type/field. (I don't know what guidelines, if any, Upwork typically provides clients...I haven't created a client account for myself or researched yet.) If Upwork ever considers doing this, I for one would be happy to write an "educational" text for clients posting jobs for text editing. For free.

OMG! Not only a sympathetic ear but someone with an excellent idea to boot! Be still my heart! A sure sign that everything is going to be okay or that the world is about to end! I can't decide which! 

 

I hereby officially announce my availability to join Denise in volunteering to write an "educational" text for clients posting jobs for Book Cover Design. 

 

Thank you, Denise, for that brilliant suggestion!

Ten Thousand Kudos to you!!!

May you live long and prosper!


Gary Val T wrote:

OMG! Not only a sympathetic ear but someone with an excellent idea to boot! Be still my heart! A sure sign that everything is going to be okay or that the world is about to end! I can't decide which! 

 

I hereby officially announce my availability to join Denise in volunteering to write an "educational" text for clients posting jobs for Book Cover Design. 

 

Thank you, Denise, for that brilliant suggestion!

Ten Thousand Kudos to you!!!

May you live long and prosper!


Two things:

 

1) Asking for fields a client would have to fill in on a job post for more clarity is nothing new and has been suggested many times in the past, and like all good suggestions, always fell on deaf ears.

 

2) Using connects to bid on jobs is never a "waste". You're self-employed, a business-owner. All businesses have expenses. That's what a connect is, it's a business expense. Perhaps not using the word "waste" will make it easier to bid on vague RFPs including any questions you may have. We can't say "connects are free" anymore, but we can still say they're the cost of doing business.

"We can't say "connects are free" anymore, but we can still say they're the cost of doing business."

 

That may be true but the infuriating part of it is that they could achieve the same goal of reducing the number of spammy proposals by simply letting the connects remain free but reduce the number of them alotted to each freelancer. When the connects are a limited resource then the freelancers would be more discriminating in their use of them. But no, UpWork had to go and implement the option that would bleed more money out of the freelancers. I mean, c'mon. We're already taking a huge hit in the wallet from the outrageous 20% fee they take out of our pay. What's next? A fee for posting in this community forum? Honestly, I would not be be surprised. Smiley Wink  


Gary Val T wrote:

"We can't say "connects are free" anymore, but we can still say they're the cost of doing business."

 

That may be true but the infuriating part of it is that they could achieve the same goal of reducing the number of spammy proposals by simply letting the connects remain free but reduce the number of them alotted to each freelancer.


Not really, the spammies then just buy connects or create multiple accounts.

 

The only other option would be to radically weed out the marketplace and kick out 50% +++ of the freelancerbase.

 

Anyone under 90% JSS? Out you go.

 

Anyone without earnings in the past 60 days? Suspended

 

Not top rated? ByeBye....

outrageous 20% fee

 

Getting a website (your profile), marketing, getting leads, getting an invoicing and AR capability costs businesses more than 20% of revenue in most cases. And, most of the costs are incurred before any revenue is received. Twenty percent is not outrageous.

 

@Petra, you are the number one expert in the platform and your domains. Under your suggestions, because not all freelancing is alike, many excellent and productive freelancers would be removed. I believe you sub-consciously chose retention characteristics that would benefit you.


Bill H wrote:

 

@ Petra - Under your suggestions, because not all freelancing is alike, many excellent and productive freelancers would be removed. I believe you sub-consciously chose retention characteristics that would benefit you.


I didn't say it should be done, I did not "make a suggestion" - I mentioned it (more as a warning, to be honest) because if Upwork didn't start charging, that would be (and still may have to be) an alternative to achieve what needs to be achieved.

 

It also isn't without precedence, they did a purge back in.., 2014? 2015? It wasn't enough.

 

 

1) Well maybe now that they are changing the connects system they should have a way to get clients to provide more information. I want to get what I pay for with connects even if they don't cost much which to me is seeing a decent description for what I am bidding on and applying for it. I am perfectly fine with paying more for connects as are most but something does need to be done about the lack of descriptions on job postings either way and clients using $5000+ as a placeholder bid. 

 

2) You are right and I do see it as a business expense that is actually fine for me, but it is actually wasting the connect if you bid on any job with lack of description. Fine then don't right? Well there are a ton of places Even the clients who have lack of description deserve their job to be looked at, but it can't be unless they give me details. So I don't see the problem with trying to find ways to make that happen. I do not think having a chat window will work for multiple reasons but especially that freelancers will drive clients nuts, but there are things upworks can do like what Gary/Denise mentioned about having actual FAQs that freelancers typically ask at the client's disposal and having it so they need to write so many words, etc. Whatever works best in that regard. If upworks are changing the way it works with connects they really should fix this description problem too so freelancers have that information to make a good bid and proposal that is tailored to the client's needs. 

I've always thought the best way to handle this would be to add a flag for "insufficient information" and then have an automated message go out to the client after a few flags that said something like, "Freelancers are reporting that your job posting does not contain sufficient information to make an informed bid. Add detail to get better and more targeted proposals."

I think that is also good Tiffany, but I do also think the FAQs thing I mentioned would be good for clients because it helps them learn what questions freelancers normally have so they can utilize it to make excellent postings and freelancers can make tailored proposals based on those answers. Just having a flag and then informing the client how they didn't do good enough doesn't help them get to the goal of knowing what they should tell freelancers to help them make tailored proposals. Your idea does help Upworks recognize it though and perhaps they could email them a link to a FAQs like I proposed or like how Denise mentioned. 

 

I think a key is to get clients to their goals by helping them provide the information and educating them on the best way to do that in order for them to get the right freelancers applying for their jobs while also feeling confident that they will discover good freelancers on Upworks. 

 

Just flagging them and having Upworks tell them "hey this isn't enough info" may just scare them off but giving them information on the things they could tell a freelancer to help their job will make them feel more confident in the platform and thus in the freelancers they will be trying to hire. It will also help them in making any future posts because they will be much more informed on the type of questions freelancers have for  the specific job type. 

 

From the client's prespective they just want an easy way to post the job and get freelancers talking to them about their project and the method of having an optional FAQ they can read right next to them as they make a job post is a good tool to have. Flagging them will help too in the way you said as long as they understand what they should do to make changes to the post so it is more informative. 

Amanda, I agree with you that it would be a useful resource, but I have two concerns. The first is that I believe the vast majority of clients wouldn't bother to read it, even after being advised that more information was needed. The second is that Upwork has a tendency to lump things that don't really relate together and miss critical distinctions (the other day, I saw a java developer mention having been grilled by Upwork staff about a javascript concept in his verification call, for instance). Unless someone with experience in each field were appointed to head up that effort, it could easily do more harm than good. 

You are right there will certainly still be clients who don't use it, but if you keep pointing at it to clients that keep having issues, then you will see some improvements and there will be those who use it. You could really say that about anything that upworks adds, that people might not use it, but from a user experience it makes sense to have. Reddit does something similar and it does actually cut down a lot of garbage posts people make. They have something with FAQs to help people understand how to use the forum properly for different subjects.

 

If you place an FAQs right next to the job post form and clearly point it out and make it prominent, I am positive there will be clients looking at iti who aren't sure about what to ask. This could at the very least be tested! 

 

This would be an instance where it would be nice to have and create an actual good, searchable FAQs for each industry that has relavent information so clients can have it at their disposal. I am talking here about having simple bullet point suggestions of things to ask for different project types. 

 

About Upworks inability to understand what certain job types do, there are people here who already volunteered to help give some reliable FAQs for their respective profession and I am sure some others wouldn't mind giving that information so they can get descriptive posts from clients. To add, these basic questions for most jobs can easily be linked to or just used as a resource to make these questions (I'd have experienced people look it over though in a survey or something) 

 

I don't see how it could be a bad thing if it is done properly. 

Amanda - You should be running UpWork. I don't say that in jest. You are one bright, intelligent woman who actually "gets it". 

 

ThumbsUpCoolSmileySmall.jpg

Nah, lol. I feel like everyone's suggestions here have been good and could help. Tiffany and others had some really good ideas too and that flagging thing would help and I do think a FAQs for clients would help. I just hope Upworks reads this stuff and considers ways to improve it from what has been suggested.

 

Ideas are good to put in the forum in general and if they see ideas they like I am sure they'll test them. 

< I've always thought the best way to handle this would be to add a flag for "insufficient information" and then have an automated message go out to the client after a few flags that said something like, "Freelancers are reporting that your job posting does not contain sufficient information to make an informed bid. Add detail to get better and more targeted proposals." >

 

EXCELLENT suggestion! It'll never happen but excellent suggestion nevertheless. 

Same here, I would be happy to write what different graphic design jobs typically need to get started. 

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