PSA: Beware AI-written forum replies

[25005175]

Examples aren't allowed, per the Community Guidelines, so you, reader, will need to take my word on this.

As in the rest of the internet, this forum is steadily filling with responses written by AI tools.

So, in order to "engage" in the Community, some users are using AI tools to write responses to topics and replies throughout the forum. Often, these responses include bullet points or numbered lists. They are also written in a sophisticated, matter-of-fact style, sometimes with a touch of empathy, that lends them perceived credence. To the less knowledgeable (this is not an insult, because until we learn something, we are uneducated on the topic, which is why we ask questions), these responses can seem authoritative and even logical.

But they are not! Many of the claims written by these tools are easily disproved by:

• reading the Support articles,
• reading the Terms of Service,
• reviewing the content in the Upwork Academy, and
• even just using the Upwork user interface.

For regularly active members, these AI responses can be identified at a glance, especially when they are blatantly incorrect. For new users or only occasional users, it can be difficult or even impossible to identify them. But they exist, so user beware. Honestly, despite many long-time users dislike of them, badges such as "Soaring Solutions" can be useful to gauge whether the person who posted a reply is a trustworthy source. But don't rely on the "Upgathering Votes" badges; fake news and wrong answers can acquire a lot of positive attention.

ETA: spelling

[8467c28e]

Christine,

Where did you get that from? Please, if you make an accusation, you have to prove it.

[the-right-writer]

As Jennifer and a few of us have used the Ai, and it spits out your comments, word for word in many cases, it's very obvious. Is that your point? That it is so horrible at writing it should be banned?

I keep asking you why you think you should dispense advice when you have no experience, no history, and your profile, too, reads like AI. It's awful, as well.

When you write something in your own words, I'll read it.

[8467c28e]

Jeanne,

I don't use AI to generate my comments or responses. All of the words and ideas I share come from my own personal experience and perspective. I genuinely enjoy helping others and sharing my thoughts, which is why I'm active in these discussions. If there's anything specific you'd like to discuss or if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. I'm always here and happy to engage in a meaningful conversation.

[the-right-writer]

You can start with the questions I have asked you repeatedly, and you repeatedly refuse to answer.

[moonraker]

Your reply was not relevant to Preston's comment, and I see a similar pattern with the rest of your comments. So do other people.

[celgins]

Stan,

Okay, but aren't there other, non-ChatGPT things your developers can do programmatically to help Moderators keep from copying/pasting content?

I obviously don't know how you're integrating ChatGPT, but the amount of time it takes to edit an answer to make it unique, may be equal to or greater than the time required to simply copy/paste the answers from the existing library.

Like Preston pointed out, the issue isn't with Upwork Moderators responses, but I can understand if Upwork sees an advantage to Moderators using ChatGPT to speed up the process of replying to posts.

[25005175]

Stan, I've no issue with the use of programming to add some flair to the Mod's templates. Some techies like Zack Freedman have already played around with using programming to spice up the responses received from AI tools - although his specific mod was to add a comprehensive insult generator 😂

ETA: corrected name spelling

[yofazza]

Not sure how your "play" with ChatGPT goes but I have a feeling if set/trained correctly it can really replace the support bot and also most moderator posts. No problem with bots/repetition as long as they're correct.

The long, formal, thorough, and grammatically correct text I mentioned are not really a problem (it's just "boring" to see it again and again while I know it's not-human, there's 1 in this thread), although it's also interesting to see if simpler language/tone might be more "readable" for "more people".

There are a few examples where an asker "ignore" answers from moderator. They only get it after reading simpler answer from other forum members. Latest (extreme) example.

[25005175]

The long, formal, thorough, and grammatically correct text I mentioned are not really a problem (it's just "boring" to see it again and again while I know it's not-human, there's 1 in this thread)

---

I've been on the fence whether that particular user has been using ChatGPT for their responses for some time now. I've now hopped off the fence onto the side of "they definitely use AI". Not sure if it is to troll other users or not.

[researchediting]

I am of course reminded of the scene from Blade Runner (1982) where the interviewer, constrained by profession and role, is the one who seems robotic, while the interview subject, all nervous tics and digressions and self-effacement, is...

[8467c28e]

Douglas,

That scene from Blade Runner is a powerful commentary on the nature of humanity and artificial intelligence. The contrast between the seemingly robotic interviewer and the emotional and unpredictable interviewee raises important questions about what it means to be human. It's a reminder that while artificial intelligence can be programmed to perform specific tasks with precision and efficiency, it lacks the ability to experience emotions, empathy, and the nuances of human interaction. Humans, on the other hand, are often messy and imperfect, but it is these very qualities that make us unique and valuable. As artificial intelligence continues to advance, it's important to consider how we can maintain our humanity in a world where machines are becoming increasingly prevalent. We must find ways to ensure that our technology is designed to serve human needs, rather than the other way around.

[feed_my_eyes]

I don't think that the issue is with the mods. If people are going to ask the exact same basic questions over and over again instead of doing an easy search, you may as well just copy/paste a standard response; people clearly haven't read the response before (or they wouldn't be asking) so they're not going to notice that it doesn't vary from one person to another.

The real issue is freelancers using ChatGPT to generate incorrect responses; they look credible and knowledgeable to the untrained eye. For example, a new freelancer posted a question the other day about whether it was okay to contact clients on Telegram, and someone used ChatGPT to assure them that it was perfectly normal and fine - this response was marked as the "solution". It's the blind leading the blind in here.

A major flaw with ChatGPT is that you need to ask your question using correct English, and with so many ESL people on Upwork, this also generates confusing and incorrect responses. Another example in the forum the other day: someone asked a question using a few words that were out of context. It was easy (for me) to understand what they intended to say, but some spectacularly unhelpful person obviously fed the question into ChatGPT - incorrect context and all - and posted a response that wasn't relevant.

It seems like a lot of people think that there's a benefit in posting in the forum a lot - either to get community badges or to help them get clients, or to add to their social media following. Obviously, it would be much better for everyone that if a person doesn't know the answer to a question, they should simply not respond and let somebody else handle it! To that end, we should be allowed to flag AI posts, and people who repeatedly do this should be suspended from the forum. 

[celgins]

For example, a new freelancer posted a question the other day about whether it was okay to contact clients on Telegram, and someone used ChatGPT to assure them that it was perfectly normal and fine - this response was marked as the "solution". It's the blind leading the blind in here

Geez! That's crazy and dangerous.

I agree--there should be a way to flag these posts. I know freelancers can't establish polls, but I wish a Moderator would and allow us to vote.

[the-right-writer]

I have no issue with bland or repetitive answers from moderators. My issue is when moderators make statements declaring Upwork Terms and then fade into the distance, refusing to acknowledge the official statements, leaving the freelancers swinging in the wind.

[spectralua]

Sometimes it seems to me that a robot has been working on Upwork ticket support for a long time. Nobody reads the question, answers in templates, the answers is not related to the questions at all. 🤔

[8467c28e]

Mykola,

If you feel that your questions are not being properly addressed, you may want to try providing more specific details or examples in your communication with Upwork's support team. It may also be helpful to request to speak with a live representative to better address your concerns. If you continue to experience unsatisfactory support, you may want to consider reaching out to Upwork's customer service team to express your concerns and seek a resolution to the issue.

[spectralua]

So I'm talking about Upwork support. I ask them to indicate the ToS item, why my job refunded, and the respondent suggests that I read the academy and add skills to the profile. They didn't even look that my profile was completed 2 years ago. I say that this is not the answer and again I get the same pattern. Nobody reads the question.

Are you suggesting I ask support why support isn't working? I'm sure they will advise me to add the Project Catalog. 😃

[lysis10]

---

Mykola A wrote:

So I'm talking about Upwork support. I ask them to indicate the ToS item, why my job refunded, and the respondent suggests that I read the academy and add skills to the profile. They didn't even look that my profile was completed 2 years ago. I say that this is not the answer and again I get the same pattern. Nobody reads the question.

Are you suggesting I ask support why support isn't working? I'm sure they will advise me to add the Project Catalog. 😃

---

His response was ChatGPT lol Notice how he first repeats what you said and then gives you an answer that's kinda womp womp. I can't get the second sentence to come up on ChatGPT, but the sentence about a live agent is ChatGPT lol

I'm bored and hungover and going through some of these posts and identifying ChatGPT. I'm starting to wonder if those AI detection tools writers keep saying are incorrectly detecting AI writing are more accurate than writers want to admit.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Jennifer M wrote:

---

I'm starting to wonder if those AI detection tools writers keep saying are incorrectly detecting AI writing are more accurate than writers want to admit.

---

I don't think you'd even need tools; the more AI responses I read, the easier they are to spot. (You're right, there's an obvious pattern.)

[8467c28e]

Christine,

I must say that AI detection tools can be very accurate in detecting AI-generated text. The quality of AI-generated text can vary greatly depending on the complexity of the AI model and the purpose for which it was designed. Some AI-generated text may be indistinguishable from text written by humans, while other AI-generated text may contain obvious patterns and errors that make it easier to perceive. It is also important to consider the context in which the text is used. For example, in certain industries, such as finance or law, there may be strict regulations and requirements for human-written text that AI-generated text may not meet.

By the way, Christine, you look a lot like Susan Sarandon. 🙂

[moonraker]

---

Utku S wrote:

Some AI-generated text may be indistinguishable from text written by humans,

---

I've yet to see  any.

Including yours.

[8467c28e]

Mykola,

I totally get where you're coming from with your frustration about Upwork support. It's really frustrating when you ask a question and feel like nobody is actually listening or trying to help you out. I think one thing you could try is to rephrase your question in a different way. Sometimes a different wording can make all the difference and help the support team understand your issue better. If that doesn't work, you might want to consider escalating your concern to a supervisor or someone with more authority. That way you can hopefully get a more specific and helpful response. I think it's important to approach the support team with patience and understanding, even though it can be tough at times. If you're not getting the answers you need, keep pushing until you find someone who can help you out.

[yofazza]

Those bots (they're are everywhere) shouldn't be comparable to ChatGPT if it can be set/trained to provide answers more correctly.

ChatGPT is known for providing wrong answers, but it also provide the correct ones and we have to admit its ability to "understand" input and provide response is quite good.

[moonraker]

---

Radia L wrote:

 and we have to admit its ability to "understand" input and provide response is quite good.

---

I admit no such thing. 'Good' is relative and AI content is not good enough for me and my clients. By some distance. 

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Radia L wrote:

Those bots (they're are everywhere) shouldn't be comparable to ChatGPT if it can be set/trained to provide answers more correctly.

ChatGPT is known for providing wrong answers, but it also provide the correct ones and we have to admit its ability to "understand" input and provide response is quite good.

---

I'm not anti-technology, and I've been using ChatGPT to generate ideas and outlines to save time in my own work. But why bother using it in the forum, especially if you're not even going to verify the accuracy of your responses? Nobody is obliged to post here; if you can't think of something to say, why post at all?

[yofazza]

I am annoyed with users who paste ChatGPT text as well, especially on the "inaccuracy" part. I scolded some of them at various threads.

I was replying Mykola, and referring to Upwork Support Bot that has similar "intelligence" with a lot other bots out there that doesn't evolve much from the 90's chatbot Dr. Sbaitso. It doesn't really "understands" you. It's only a "helper" to search a support documentation. People, clients, complained at the bot.

Good' is relative

Its ability to process natural language, both input and output, is good, compared to other (current) chatbots. You can use any language without first setting it up, you can tell it to talk or rephrase with a different "tone", etc.

why bother using it in the forum, especially if you're not even going to verify the accuracy 

I never had the chance to look at OpenAI's paid services, I don't know the cost as well. But I know the public free version of ChatGPT is not using a current "database". It should return incorrect answers if you ask it about Upwork's oncoming flat fee for example.

Now if it can be "trained" or "set up" or "contained" to only focus on the latest Upwork Support Documentation, latest ToS, etc., the accuracy should improve and I think maybe:

• It can replace and be 10x better than the current support bot.
• It might be safe enough to let it post auto responses on the forum., replacing most moderator's posts.

[moonraker]

---

Radia L wrote:

Its ability to process natural language, both input and output, is good, 

---

Like I said. Good is relative, and subjective.

You may or may not find it amazing. Good for you. I find that it produces (very) poor quality content that's useless to me.

And you claim we have to admit it's good but I don't remember appointing you as my spokesperson. You get to speak for yourself. Not all of us. 

[prestonhunter]

This is the "Community Forum."

It is not the "ChatGPT Forum."

It is not even "Upwork Help Desk."

I have no problem with the idea that this Forum should be a place where real humans ask questions and write posts.

[yofazza]

Humans has flaws. You see sometimes there are threads about simple questions that doesn't get a response for days, until a moderator steps-in. Even sometimes some mods responds (paste a canned response) incorrectly.

This community forum helped Upwork. Think how many resource (time & "effort" of support staff and moderators) saved every day when questions are answered "without cost".

The "community" part (more complex discussions) is a bonus

Now if the cost vs benefit of applying a smart (accurate) bot is feasible, why not? It at least can handle those small questions problem. We know we can't force people to read manuals.

disclaimer: I'm NOT talking about normal.users pasting AI texts.

[spectralua]

The bot must not impersonate a human. If the bot is signed as a bot then there is no problem.

[yofazza]

of course.

just added a disclaimer in the previous post to make sure

[moonraker]

---

Jonathan L wrote:

badges such as "Soaring Solutions" can be useful to gauge whether the person who posted a reply is a trustworthy source. 

---

I can't agree with this.

There's many new freelancers here who don't know when other people are spouting nonsense. That's not necessarily their fault, but it does mean the badge/upvoting system is unreliable. It's even possible that a lot of people are MORE likely to upvote inaccurate comments than accurate ones because accurate replies are more likely to contain information people don't like. 

I spoke out against the 'Guru' status they previously used because it was misleading people into trusting poor advice. I was pleased when they got rid of it. Only for them to then introduce something 10x worse. 

[yofazza]

>a lot of people are MORE likely to upvote inaccurate comments than accurate ones because accurate replies are more likely to contain information people don't like. 

It's hard to deal with that specific case, but for most other I think adding a downvote system is a more feasible solution than the badges.

Sorry for copy pasting but it's really great if this can be implemented:

---

Radia L wrote:

It's not easy to "legally" determine AI posts. Accusations coud lead to other problems.

A more feasible solution is to implement some kind of downvote option. Even better if it also hide posts that passes some downvoted threshold.

The idea is not new but it's probably harder to implement here than placing the "trusted poster" or "top upvoted user" badge on every post (as suggested on the other thread) but I think it's worth it, more clear and useful. There's a lot of active users, bad posts should quickly collect lots of downvotes.

---

Bad posts can be hidden, instead of just "receiving 0 upvotes".

[25005175]

Note that I specifically stated that users should not rely on the "Upgathering Votes" badge, which is the result of receiving upvotes. Getting your responses selected as solutions is much, much rarer. Looking at my stats, my Upvote:Solution ratio is 40:1. And I never said that even having Soaring Solutions badges would be reason alone to trust someone. Instead, I said that they "can be useful to gauge" trustworthiness. As some of the active members know, I too make mistakes, assumptions. I like to think that I do so rarely, but it does happen.

[lacamacho]

You think that's bad? There's tools to scrap job posts, and reply automatically using AI:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

I hope someone at Upwork is keeping up with this and somehow just bans them.

EDIT: I came across this on an ad on Reddit, on the /r/upwork subreddit no less. I wouldn't be surprised if there's many others like this. As if freelancing in this economy wasn't hard enough... 🙄

[8467c28e]

Hey guys,

I'm a straightforward person, I'm going to be honest with you and I'm not going to give you any more answers on this topic. Don't dislike technology, especially AI. Because very soon you may miss your refrigerator or even your hair dryer. I advise you to appreciate technology right now. Be grateful for the technology you have. 😁

[25005175]

To quote Will Smith's character in I, Robot, "That one? It's called anger."

[the-right-writer]

If your posts are designed to demonstrate the awesomeness of AI/Chat GPT, they failed miserably. AI covers an enormous range of applications, from spellcheckers to brain surgery. The problems with AI generated posts have been stated. The undisclosed use has the potential for harm, potentially great harm, if freelancers make poor decisions based on AI statements.

After reading your posts, I am even more opposed to AI in the forum.

[2b9c8c75]

aI. a blessing. a curse. and another curse.

[kochubei_valeria]

All, 

There are some interesting points you are debating. Just like the rest of the world, we've been watching the developments around AI and considering what it means for what we do. That includes forum moderation. 

Many of you are concerned with the relevancy and accuracy of responses in the forum; we hear you. And we want to remind and encourage you to flag posts that appear irrelevant or off-topic so our team can review them. 

As for inaccuracy, I've been reading this forum for almost a decade, and yes, members sometimes post responses that do not accurately describe Upwork processes and features. Even the most experienced members on these forums have done that, it’s not limited to new members. When we come across such posts, we may comment to correct or clarify, unless another member has already done so. But do not expect immediate removal — being mistaken does not violate the Community guidelines. 

Also, please be aware that when it comes to posts about approaches to using Upwork and running one’s business, any definition of correct is subjective. We also don’t believe that only those with extensive Upwork work history should be allowed to share their experience and advice about running a business and working. This Community isn’t just about working and hiring on Upwork.

As for the usage of AI, Upwork TOS or Community Guidelines do not expressly encourage or prohibit the use of AI. The tools members choose to use when writing their posts (be it online translators, proofreading tools, or AI) are up to them as long as their posts don’t violate our Guidelines.

Historically, many of this community's most active members have been writers and native speakers of English. I understand why some members may feel strongly about content created with assistance from AI tools. However, these forums are for everyone, and not exclusively for those who can confidently communicate and express themselves in written English. 

During this whole debate, I can’t help but remember my time learning and teaching ESL. As an ESL learner, you practice writing in a certain way, and follow certain structures and patterns. You also often end up using overly complicated vocabulary that you later find out native speakers don’t really use conversationally. 

I don’t see any harm if we have such posts on these forums, whether written with AI assistance or simply following the pattern most ESL learners are taught to follow.