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Paid entrance did not help, make same for clients ? Connects refund

Lets be honest, conencts did not help at all. For normal job posts there are still 50+ applications, basically paid connects solve problem for multiple submits for the fake job posts, but situation did not changed for the good clients. I am offering to make paid connects for the clients, to prevent open fake jobs. I had experience when some clients just want to know the price for the project, after leaves, and continue work locally. Another clients(other freelancers) post fake jobs to analyze market, or fetch text proposals, yes, I've met a lot of topics of different upwork bloggers, they are offering to post fake job, just to see proposal text... Another problem, that I've spent 12 connects, most of them were spent for such fake jobs, and upwork did not refund it, even when I submit request and mention not active clients, upwork just ignore it, becuase it still receives money from this process.

21 REPLIES 21
florydev
Member

Ok, I will be honest.  I am not sure yet.   My best guess is, it's not hurting.

 

Looking at the last job I won, there were only 5-10 proposals submitted and the client invited 19 freelancers (6 unanswered).  The client interviewed 6 people.

 

Of the last job I was in the running for there was 20-50 proposals, 9 interviews, 11 invitations (3 unanswered).  That is probably what you would call a fake job because they haven't hired anyone and haven't viewed it in 16 days.  I interviewed with them, I thought it went well but they have not responded so I am assuming it's a no go.  

 

In both of those cases I would say annecdotally there were WAY less proposals than I remember before the snappening.

 

The rest of your stuff has been said many times and it doesn't resonate with me.  I doubt very seriously Upwork sees the connects as a revenue stream. 

Hello Mark, well, problem exists https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Money-wasted-on-unresponsive-clients/m-p/640405#M46773

 

I think it is kind of global problem. I remember in 2014-2016 it were easier to get client, but later situation just get worse from my point of view. There are problem with increased amount of such 'empty' jobs, why should we even spend time for that ? In case analogue system with paid job posts, will just cut off such empty jobs, if the client are serious, .50 cents per job post would not harm. At the end, client will get submits for sure, if we talk about adequate job post contents. But fake clients would stop posting dumb text offers, since it is free(I never tried) ? . Would it increase quality of the posts as well ?


Vitaliy K wrote:

I think it is kind of global problem. I remember in 2014-2016 it were easier to get client, but later situation just get worse from my point of view.


Maybe the 75% JSS has something to do with that, don't you think?


Vitaliy K wrote:

, .50 cents per job post would not harm.


Yes, it would do harm. Lots of harm. it would decrease fake jobs, but also dramatically decrease real jobs and put off new clients from posting their first job, making this a horrible idea all around.

 

Less jobs, less clients = less money in the pockets of freelancers. I object to earning less money just because some people don't have the skill to choose what to bid on and what not to bid on.


Vitaliy K wrote:

Hello Mark, well, problem exists https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Money-wasted-on-unresponsive-clients/m-p/640405#M46773

 

I think it is kind of global problem. I remember in 2014-2016 it were easier to get client, but later situation just get worse from my point of view. There are problem with increased amount of such 'empty' jobs, why should we even spend time for that ? In case analogue system with paid job posts, will just cut off such empty jobs, if the client are serious, .50 cents per job post would not harm. At the end, client will get submits for sure, if we talk about adequate job post contents. But fake clients would stop posting dumb text offers, since it is free(I never tried) ? . Would it increase quality of the posts as well ?


A client comes to your website wanting to spend money to get some work done you would have to be a fool to charge them a tiny bit of money to see if they are serious.  Why should Upwork do this?

 

Clients are scare, freelancers are legion.  Good clients are even scarcer.  I am against anything that protects against the so called "fake" clients that might scare away a good client.  I am way more inclined that a client didn't hire me or anyone because they didn't find someone that fit their criteria than anything else.

 

Connects is a reality and the price of doing business here.  You can hate it, you can complain about it, but there is nothing you can do about it.  The rational thing to do is figure out how to move on from it.

I would say, it kind of worked. My reply rate is definitely better than it used to be. Most of the bids i make, result in at least some reply.

And of course, the paid connects did not *quite* help for the obvious reason: they are way too cheap. If the price of connect stayed $1, things would have been a lot better.

I still think paid entrance for clients not the best idea, but there should be something that will control clients better. It would harm for bad clients, that does not know what they want, I had so much cases when you spent hours for free consulting, but after the 'client' get the information needed, just gone, and do not hire anyone. Increase price for connects is a good idea, it will segment off cheap freelancers. Less competitors, vote up.


Vitaliy K wrote:

 I had so much cases when you spent hours for free consulting, but after the 'client' get the information needed, just gone, and do not hire anyone. 


Don't do that.

 

I'm not being flip--managing exactly what you invest before there's a paying contract with clear terms in place is a fundamental aspect of successfully running a freelancing business.


Vitaliy K wrote:

I had so much cases when you spent hours for free consulting, but after the 'client' get the information needed, just gone, and do not hire anyone.


Lol ๐Ÿ™‚

 

And you were expecting what exactly by working for free? I think that the paid connects system was put in place in order to get rid of a certain category of FLers and I'm afraid you're part of it.

 

 

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless
wlyonsatl
Member

Vitaliy,

 

It is unfortunate that Upwork's new connects policy is pricing freelancers out of the market. If I remember correctly, Upwork's CEO once said one of the things he was proudest of was Upwork's ability to bring new job opportunities to every corner of the world.

 

Upwork can still do that, but not profitably. And as a publicly-traded company Upwork needs to start reporting earnings to its shareholders. To combat the recurring losses the company has been reporting to shareholders, Upwork has to either raise its pricing or lower its costs. I suspect the new bidding/connects policy achieves some element of both - the lower end (most costly?) freelancers will leave the site and everyone who stays will pay a bit more for connects.

 

No amount of complaining will lead to a return to the good ole days of free connects.

 

Good luck finding a way to make your activities on Upwork profitable for you.

 

 

Rene and Petra, please be professional.

 

Tiffany, sometimes client really need free consulting, it is kind of art to know forward if the client would start working, or leave. From my experience, I had success in providing free consulting, once free consulting turn into 3 months project. When you have experience working remotely, you kind of feel if the client need to do the job, or just get free consulting, but it does not work for 100% always.

 

Will, I agree about enter price to the connects, because situation really out of control with submits. I just mention that it does not work, as Alexander mentioned, it works a 'little'... I think(and not only I am https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/Money-wasted-on-unresponsive-clients/m-p/640405#M46773) it is logically wrong not to refund, in case the job post die, and client leaves. I agree, it is better to filter off freelancers, because digit are bigger. But there are clients, that have to be filtered as well. Refund important, because 5$ are different in different countries. 

 

Hmm, situation with shareholders interesting, because it impacts directly on us(freelancers), 20% fee for all type of jobs, now paid connects, I am not sure it is a good tactic, one day it could be in conflict with CEOs sayings. But how do you know, if is it not profitable to the upwork to increase the price of connects? Since they are already doing that, there would't be that much difference isn't it ? Goal the same, just filter a little more freelancers ? 

 

Will, do you think imbalance happen only remotely, or locally as well ? If we talk about software development?

Will, wish you all the best.


Vitaliy K wrote:

Rene and Petra, please be professional.

Sorry, I can't. I'm way too drunk

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless


Vitaliy K wrote:

 

Tiffany, sometimes client really need free consulting, it is kind of art to know forward if the client would start working, or leave.

 Sometimes client need free logo or website - but that doesn't mean that they're going to get it. Those clients who get free work usually have something like this  - 0% hire rate and quite a few jobs posted. Why would they hire anyone, when they can get what they want for free?
cl1.jpg

 

I just shared my experience, there are clients that need talk/consulting before work, and clients that want to cheat you from begin. They are know what they want, so if there would be paid connects for clients, or some money restriction, clients that want to get the result for fair, will pay, but clients that want free will be filtered, because post job would not be free anymore. Since upwork restrict normal clients to the private talent group of the freelancers, they have to do something with rest of clients, because it is not acceptable.


Vitaliy K wrote:

 if there would be paid connects for clients, or some money restriction, clients that want to get the result for fair, will pay,


You know that... how?  You state that despite the fact that clients keep saying that if they had had to pay or even verify their payment method before posting their first job, they would never, ever have posted their first job? Including clients who have spent hundreds of thousands on Upwork.

 

That idea of charging clients would mean significantly fewer jobs posted and critically less new clients.

In other words: BAD, horrible idea.

 

Again: I don't see why my income should be cut because other people can not filter their prospective clients.

 

Vitaliy, it depends on what YOU share during the conversation.  I insist on having a chat with any potential client because:

 

1. Most buyers are not skilled in writing a thorough RFP - nor should they have to be.  However, in order to understand what they really need, a discussion is needed.  

2. A discussion does NOT mean giving away the solution / work.

 

There is a vast difference between what I do and what you apparently are doing in these discussions.

summarize: current paid connects does not work! Here it is evidence :

**Edited for community guidelines**

Upwork should increase price for connects.

Upwork should pay bonus(in connects ?) for report fake job post, that never get hire anyone. And refund all connects in case job post did not interview or hire anyone.

 

 


Vitaliy K wrote:

summarize: current paid connects does not work! Here it is evidance :

**Edited for community guidelines**

Upwork should increase price for connects.

Upwork should pay bonus(in connects ?) for report fake job post, that never get hire anyone. And refund all connects in case job post did not interview or hire anyone.

 


This job is by a client that seems totally legit and has hired on most of their jobs in the past...what is your point that more than 20 people applied?

Yes


Vitaliy K wrote:

Yes


How do you know without paid connects it wouldn't have been 100?  Certainly we know that more than 20 people decided to wage $0.60 against a client whose budget is $100.00.  I think because the client is not one of the so-called "fake" clients it could be people were willing to take that shot.

 

Nobody said spending connects would mean you get to exclusively bid on jobs.

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