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Payment advice - for a client.

Community Guru
Jean S Member Since: Oct 22, 2007
21 of 36

@Ela K wrote:

Well, I can't say I am surprised by the turn things took - and I get that you were only trying to help.

 

But the thing I didn't understand form the very beginning is, why your client didn't contact CS or try to find out himself? It's about his payment method. His problem.

 

He has an account, there's a client section in this forum and there is CS. I am not saying that CS is a well of solid information, particularly not when it comes to Upwork policies, but it was actually his job to clarify this.

 

Why didn't he?

 

I am sorry, but yes, it was a mistake to post this question/the conversation publicly. But the first problem was that he suggested looking for a payment method outside of Upwork for whatever reasons, legit as they may seem. Once Upwork has knowledge of such a request, they will investigate. 

 

 


 I think she fell into nice person syndrome. You know when you want to help someone and offer to do so and then you end up with no good deed going unpunished. Smiley Happy

Community Guru
Barbara W Member Since: Sep 10, 2015
22 of 36

@Jean S wrote:

@Ela K wrote:

Well, I can't say I am surprised by the turn things took - and I get that you were only trying to help.

 

But the thing I didn't understand form the very beginning is, why your client didn't contact CS or try to find out himself? It's about his payment method. His problem.

 

He has an account, there's a client section in this forum and there is CS. I am not saying that CS is a well of solid information, particularly not when it comes to Upwork policies, but it was actually his job to clarify this.

 

Why didn't he?

 

I am sorry, but yes, it was a mistake to post this question/the conversation publicly. But the first problem was that he suggested looking for a payment method outside of Upwork for whatever reasons, legit as they may seem. Once Upwork has knowledge of such a request, they will investigate. 

 

 


 I think she fell into nice person syndrome. You know when you want to help someone and offer to do so and then you end up with no good deed going unpunished. Smiley Happy


With his apparent misunderstanding at the specifics of the TOS, I would infer that he also might not know that he can reach out to CS for a solution. Or maybe I'm just too nice, and driven by the need for complete client satisfaction. Whatever it is, I definitely feel I'm being punished for it, which isn't fair. 

- Barbara Herrera -
Community Guru
Barbara W Member Since: Sep 10, 2015
23 of 36

I get that they have a job to do, and investigating such requests is a responsibility they must take seriously. But it's ridiculous to investigate it after that particular "problem" has already been addressed - you can clearly see by the message screenshot I posted that the full intention was to continue paying on Upwork. This is why I included the messages; to show that the client wasn't trying to circumvent the fees, they were simply trying to incorporate a payment method that worked better for themselves.

 

Additionally, when reading through the ToS again, I see that it is possible to circumvent Upwork with your payment and still not be in violation -- if Upwork is still paid the fees that they are owed. This should be easier information to find as I'm sure the client would have been willing to meet this requirement as he never once stated a problem with the fees, only that he couldn't use his Paypal account with Upwork. Of course, I would prefer to keep the payment on Upwork as a security feature to me, but the client didn't mention any plans to circumvent the fees. This is the "actual problem" as I understand it and it had absolutely nothing to do with his request.

 

I am privately messaging the client to confirm that it was not my intention that his account get put under review. He has been a wonderful client with the exception of this one question that, technically, didn't break any rules. I am sincerely hoping that it can be resolved quickly and I can go back to "business as usual".

- Barbara Herrera -
Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
24 of 36

Hi Barbara,

 

I understand you are frustrated with the hold that was put on the contract. I reviewed your client's account and his corrspondence with Upwork team and it appears the issues with his account are not limited to disintermediation. Your client has to communicate with the team through the open ticket to resolve those issues before his account can be resumed.

We will not be able to share any more details about the client's personal account suspension here in the Community. Thank you for understanding.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
25 of 36

oy, a little extreme to report her client but I knew someone would. Cat Frustrated

 

 

Sad part is I have 10 bucks on he wanted to take her to paypal to get a discount and it's not like she's banking a ton of money here, so what would he save? LIke $.60/article? 

Community Guru
Barbara W Member Since: Sep 10, 2015
26 of 36

@Jennifer M wrote:

oy, a little extreme to report her client but I knew someone would. Cat Frustrated

 

 

Sad part is I have 10 bucks on he wanted to take her to paypal to get a discount and it's not like she's banking a ton of money here, so what would he save? LIke $.60/article? 


 Even if he did want to go to Paypal for the discount (which was never discussed; he said he wanted to move it off because Upwork didn't offer Paypal integration) - there is a section in the TOS that states that you can actually do this, with either a one-time fee per contract (which is more than the total contract value, so not a good choice in our scenario) or with Upwork still receiving their due fees. As I would be charging him the same off-site as I do on-site, it wouldn't even be a problem with me if I could be informed of a manual way to submit these fees and still allow him to pay me through Paypal. The terms of service says that this is actually a possibility, but understandably there would be extra hoops to jump through. In my original messages, we never explored that option as I had just expected that "not allowed" meant "not allowed", not "not allowed unless" -- which is what it actually is.

- Barbara Herrera -
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
27 of 36

I definitely understand why you're upset. I'd be upset too if it was a good paying customer, so I get it. I wouldn't have reported you, but Upwork is crazy sensitive about that.

 

For the record though, Upwork is much safer for payment than Paypal. Paypal is very buyer centric if someone raises a dispute. Just for future reference, unless someone pays you upfront, the 10% is well worth the money for the escrow protection.

 

He's really not paying you enough to have any extra hassles on your side. Let him figure out his finances. You're just the writer trying to make a living.

Community Guru
Barbara W Member Since: Sep 10, 2015
28 of 36

@Jennifer M wrote:

[...] For the record though, Upwork is much safer for payment than Paypal. Paypal is very buyer centric if someone raises a dispute. Just for future reference, unless someone pays you upfront, the 10% is well worth the money for the escrow protection.

 


 I agree. That's why I wasn't actually looking for the loopholes to take payment off Upwork. I was just extra mad when I found out they were there, and there's no reason to infer from his messages that he wouldn't have been willing to meet these requests.

 

He has told me privately that he prefers the security of working through Upwork - he just wants to know how he can do that with Paypal.

Thankfully, private communication with him has confirmed that he doesn't see this as my fault. (Thank goodness!) I feel absolutely terrible for getting his account put under review. But, hopefully, in this review they'll see that he pays on time, with bonuses, that he communicates thoroughly, and even that he's now worried about even communicating outside of Upwork - so our messages have returned to the on-site messaging. We just have to wait until Upwork sees that his request wasn't in any attempt to scam Upwork or myself.

- Barbara Herrera -
Active Member
tanya s Member Since: Oct 11, 2015
29 of 36

From a client's perspective-
1. A client has a risk to pay 50% upfront outside Upwork and a job will not be delivered. Any client would prefer an escrow.
2. However, a client is facing risk even within Upwork platform. Is a resolution of the disputes fair on this platform? If a freelancer does a job, but it is not at a satisfactory level and a client can't use the results, does Upwork have enough qualification to verify this? This is a risk for a client too. A full payment for a badly done job can be awarded to a freelancer.
3. A client, who pays monthly dues to Upwork and his/her credit card information is in the hands of Upwork, doesn't have a goal to cheat a freelancer. A client is looking for a way to avoid very high fees at Upwork (more than 20% per job).
4. Don't you see that what Barbara told us is a sign of clients' dissatisfaction with high fees? Pay attention to this. Because clients, like all companies do, are looking for a way to pay lower fees, lower taxes, and lower wages. This is competition.

Community Guru
Jean S Member Since: Oct 22, 2007
30 of 36

@tanya s wrote:

From a client's perspective-
1. A client has a risk to pay 50% upfront outside Upwork and a job will not be delivered. Any client would prefer an escrow.
2. However, a client is facing risk even within Upwork platform. Is a resolution of the disputes fair on this platform? If a freelancer does a job, but it is not at a satisfactory level and a client can't use the results, does Upwork have enough qualification to verify this? This is a risk for a client too. A full payment for a badly done job can be awarded to a freelancer.
3. A client, who pays monthly dues to Upwork and his/her credit card information is in the hands of Upwork, doesn't have a goal to cheat a freelancer. A client is looking for a way to avoid very high fees at Upwork (more than 20% per job).
4. Don't you see that what Barbara told us is a sign of clients' dissatisfaction with high fees? Pay attention to this. Because clients, like all companies do, are looking for a way to pay lower fees, lower taxes, and lower wages. This is competition.


 

That's rubbish.

 

Clients do not pay a fee.

 

Clients do not pay 20% of anything.

 

 Barbara did not tell us of unhappy clients.

 

Any client I get on my own pays me 100% up front.

 

What you wrote has no basis in reality whatsoever.

 

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