purplepony
Member

Potentially New Information Regarding JSS Calculation

Since I could not find the answer anywhere regarding if there is a minimum # of jobs that need to be completed within EACH of the time frames of 2 years, 1 year, AND 6 months for that time frame to be utilized for JSS calculation, I've asked and continued to ask that question of several C.S. Representatives.  I sincerely do not at all understand why none of them specifically answered my question.  (Well, maybe I do as oftentimes transparency doesn't at all seem to be an UW priority.)

 

Finally I've received an answer, and I thought it may be of assistance to others if I shared.  I've been informed that to receive a score in each of the time frames Freelancers must have 4 jobs with Feedback from at least 3 different clients for each time frame.

 

Of course I've thanked the Representative for specifically answering my question and also responded that IMO that that's not at all conducive to part-time Freelancers such as myself that are selective and choose projects we're actually very interested in doing and that are longer term.  I further shared that IMO it's quite sad as it appears that several Freelancers such as myself have earned more $'s and worked more hours than many that fit the criterion.

 

In addition, I also asked the Representative to share my thoughts with UW decision makers and also requested to be informed as to what the chances of changing the criterion to be more equitable to all Freelancers is.  (No, based on what I've seen in the past; I'm not going to hold my breath.)  Smiley Frustrated    

44 REPLIES 44
mthornton-cpc
Member

It's strange to think that I could potentially be nearing a JSS danger zone since my jobs recently have been ongoing and longer term. If they extend past the 6 month mark and I don't take smaller one-off jobs because my longer term jobs are keeping me booked I could be in trouble. Which is absurd in light of my earnings and high % of long term clients. 

Melissa, of course I totally agree.  You've worked more hours and earned more here than I, but mine's "nothing to sneeze at."  I've been adversely impacted by this criterion as have many others.  Those that haven't been certainly can be in the future if the criterion is not changed.  Good luck to us all!!!

The flip side is not to care so much about JSS, which is a valid strategy, but there's such a default importance placed on it by the platform it's difficult to ignore it completely. You'd think there has to be some sort of middle ground where those of us who are consistently working aren't penalized by the calculation criteria. A one-size fits all approach is often neccessary to cover the median, but those data points on either end of the graph like us get left out. 

I am just looking at a profile with only one completed contract in the 6 AND 12 months window, and a JSS Score. 

 

Pat, have you actually lost your JSS?

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Pat and others,

 

The reason we can't provide one uniform number of contracts needed for JSS to be calculated is because different contracts can count differently in the score. As you pointed out some freelancers focus on long-term contracts with fewer clients rather than many smaller contracts with different clients and JSS is already designed to account for that. 

~ Valeria
Upwork

Valeria, that makes much more sense. But, how was the CS rep able to answer Pat's Q then?

I believe Pat was very persistent with her question, Melissa. Smiley Wink But I can also confirm that it takes about 4 regular-sized (not long-term) contracts with feedback from at least 3 different clients for most freelancers to get their first JSS.

~ Valeria
Upwork


@Valeria K wrote:

1) I believe Pat was very persistent with her question, Melissa. Smiley Wink

 

2) But I can also confirm that it takes about 4 regular-sized (not long-term) contracts with feedback from at least 3 different clients for most freelancers to get their first JSS.


 1) Surprise surprise...

 

2) This isn't about the first JSS, this is about LOSING one's JSS if there are not X number of completed contracts from X number of different clients in every calculation window...

 

Has Pat actually LOST her JSS because of not enough contracts in the 6 month window?

Petra,

 

To your second point, I would like to clarify that you need to have worked with 3 distinct clients during you overall time on Upwork and at least 4 completed contracts in last 2 years in order for your JSS to be calculated. 

 

Note, that if you've only been working with one client in the past 2 years, so long as work is actively being completed and paid for on the platform, your JSS will not go away. 
~ Valeria
Upwork

Thanks Valeria 🙂

 

So essentially the original post was based on a misunderstanding or misinformation or a combination of both, Pat won't have lost her JSS and the whole thing was a storm in a teacup.

@Petra (and anyone else interested)---I never stated that I'd lost my JSS as I have not.  However, I have been negatively impacted.  My original post was not based on a misunderstanding as I shared as close to verbatim what I was told without copying/pasting which is against UW TOS.  Misinformation?  Perhaps.  Since that appears to occur more frequently than it should, that wouldn't surprise me.  IMO it's not a storm in a teacup because I (am also confident many others) have been negatively impacted by the subject matter. Smiley Frustrated


@Pat M wrote:

@Petra (and anyone else interested)---I never stated that I'd lost my JSS as I have not.  However, I have been negatively impacted. 


 How have you been negatively impacted by something that didn't happen?

@Petra-I stated I'd been "negatively impacted by the subject matter."  The subject matter definitely did happen, Petra.  Perhaps the following will enlighten you.  My JSS has decreased.  My current score is supposedly based on a 2-year calculation.  I was told I didn't have enough jobs for UW to calculate scores for me other than the 2-year one.  Since I also do have jobs within the 1 year and the 6 month time frames, I'd asked several times if there is a minimum # of jobs that need to be completed for EACH of the time frames for that time frame to be utilized for JSS calculation.  Eventually I was given the information shared in my original post.      

Valeria posted:

 

I believe Pat was very persistent with her question, Melissa. Smiley Wink But I can also confirm that it takes about 4 regular-sized (not long-term) contracts with feedback from at least 3 different clients for most freelancers to get their first JSS.

~ Valeria
Untitled
_________________________________________________________________________________
 
Valeria, how does me being persistent with asking the question connote being given misinformation?   

Pat,

 

As I explained in one of my previous posts, myself and other CS agents can't give a specific answer to a question "What number of contracts and clients it takes to get and maintain JSS?" The reason is that it depends on the contracts as the length of a contract is already taken into consideration exactly as you suggested in your original post. 

The answer "it takes at least 4 contracts with at least 3 different clients" does apply to most cases and was given to you after you asked for more specific information.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Valeria posted:

 

Pat,

 

As I explained in one of my previous posts, myself and other CS agents can't give a specific answer to a question "What number of contracts and clients it takes to get and maintain JSS?" The reason is that it depends on the contracts as the length of a contract is already taken into consideration exactly as you suggested in your original post. 

The answer "it takes at least 4 contracts with at least 3 different clients" does apply to most cases and was given to you after you asked for more specific information.

~ Valeria
Untitled
_________________________________________________________________________________
The question I actually asked (several times) was:  "Is there a minimum # of jobs that need to be completed within EACH of the time frames of 2 years, 1 year, and 6 months for that time frame to be utilized for JSS calculation?"  I (and many others) will never understand UW's extreme lack of transparency regarding how JSS is calculated.  Evidently this is just one of the many cases where "it is what it is."  IMO UW needs to realize that just because it works (in their opinion and that of some freelancers) that doesn't mean it's right!"   

Am I correct in thinking that an emphasis on long-term jobs is actually detrimental to one's JSS rating ... despite the fact that it is these jobs (and the providers) that constitute what stability there is for Upwork's monthly bottom line?

Wendy,

 

Having long-term contracts is beneficial for Job Success score. However, not having them doesn't lower one's score and it's entirely possible to have a high JSS without having any long-term relationships.

~ Valeria
Upwork

If you know that *in general*, JSS needs around 4 contracts with 3 different clients to be calculated, and that JSS can be calculated on either a 6 month, 12 month, or 24 month window, then surely it follows that for JSS to be calculated on one of those windows you need to have that magic "4 contracts with 3 different clients" inside that window? And if you don't have that for one of those windows, then another window may be used instead. That makes sense to me.

Valerie,  thank you for your response and I do understand that it is "entirely possible to have a high JSS without having any long-term relationships."

 

However, my question was: "Am I correct in thinking that an emphasis on long-term jobs is actually detrimental to one's JSS rating?" 

It takes a LONG time to get back up if you only take 3 jobs a year. That's my take, from personal experience.

I see. Having a limited number of long-term contracts can work to your detriment because a bad review from one of those contracts carries significant weight in your JSS calculation.  It isn't the existence of that type of contract that is the problem, but the potential damaging that can be incurred if the contract ends badly. 

Pandora posted:

 

It takes a LONG time to get back up if you only take 3 jobs a year. That's my take, from personal experience.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Pandora, yes your statement and the concept thereof is most definitely true.  We're told that lesser # and longer-term projects are taken into account with JSS calculation.  However, one can't help but wonder to what degree.  Of course I may be mistaken, but it definitely appears to me that full timers that are constantly working numerous projects have a distinct JSS advantage over part timers with a lesser # of projects.  Oftentimes we part timers have earned more $'s and worked more hours than many of the full timers.  One would think that that would have more significance than it seems to have.   

 

 

Focusing on long-term contracts has not been detrimental to my JSS. 


@Wendy C wrote:

Valeria,  thank you for your response and I do understand that it is "entirely possible to have a high JSS without having any long-term relationships."

 

However, my question was: "Am I correct in thinking that an emphasis on long-term jobs is actually detrimental to one's JSS rating?" 


 Why would it? In fact an emphasis on long term contracts that go well is beneficial for the JSS.

Obviously if you concentrate on long term client relationships and long term contracts, if those contracts go well your JSS is boosted by the long term contract and by the good outcomes.

 

If one of them goes wrong it hits more heavily for two reasons: Those who do mainly or only long term contracts have less contracts overall, so every contract represents a larger percentage of the whole picture and secondly longer term contracts weigh more heavily.

 

However, having long term contracts is by no means detrimental by itself. They only become detrimental if they go wrong. Much like any other contract: If they go well they boost your JSS. If they do not, they don't.

Jennifer D. posted:

 

If you know that *in general*, JSS needs around 4 contracts with 3 different clients to be calculated, and that JSS can be calculated on either a 6 month, 12 month, or 24 month window, then surely it follows that for JSS to be calculated on one of those windows you need to have that magic "4 contracts with 3 different clients" inside that window? And if you don't have that for one of those windows, then another window may be used instead. That makes sense to me.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Jennifer, you've "kissed" the situation (keep it simple sweetie---I mainly use sweetie vs. stupid and definitely sweetie with you) which of course I understand.  However, as I'm confident you know, JSS calculation evidently is not at all simple.  In addition, a large portion of what we do understand about it  does not make sense to many of us.  As you also know, I'm not a newbie here.  Some oftentimes state that if freelancers correctly manage their businesses/contracts...that JSS won't be a challenge.  One of the greatest challenges is that we have nowhere near 100% control on many aspects.      

 

 

Perhaps CS should be specifically instructed and authorized to refuse to answer JSS questions as opposed to being forced to field the same question repeatedly when queried by someone who is unhappy with their score. I can certainly understand why CS would at some point be willing to say anything just to be set free. 

 

Maybe freelancers should be given  JSS Question tokens. Upwork could give each freelancer 12 tokens per year and once they've used those, they lose a point on their JSS for each new JSS-related question they ask. 


@Tonya P wrote:

 

Maybe freelancers should be given  JSS Question tokens. Upwork could give each freelancer 12 tokens per year and once they've used those, they lose a point on their JSS for each new JSS-related question they ask. 

Now that I've built some momentum, I never use my monthly allotment of connects any more. I would happily swap a few for extra JSS question tokens! 

 


 

Tonya P. posted:

 

Perhaps CS should be specifically instructed and authorized to refuse to answer JSS questions as opposed to being forced to field the same question repeatedly when queried by someone who is unhappy with their score. I can certainly understand why CS would at some point be willing to say anything just to be set free. 

 

Maybe freelancers should be given  JSS Question tokens. Upwork could give each freelancer 12 tokens per year and once they've used those, they lose a point on their JSS for each new JSS-related question they ask. 

_________________________________________________________________________________

 

Tonya, you may feel differently about the subject if your JSS would be negatively impacted.  

 

 


@Tonya P wrote:

Perhaps CS should be specifically instructed and authorized to refuse to answer JSS questions as opposed to being forced to field the same question repeatedly when queried by someone who is unhappy with their score. I can certainly understand why CS would at some point be willing to say anything just to be set free. 

 

Maybe freelancers should be given  JSS Question tokens. Upwork could give each freelancer 12 tokens per year and once they've used those, they lose a point on their JSS for each new JSS-related question they ask. 


 Sooner or later it will get to the point where Upwork will be forced to start charging for Support like so many other companies have already been forced to do.

 

It is probably the only way to stop people raising needless and frivolous tickets to either get answers to obvious questions, simply to rant, to ask questions the answer to which can be easily found, or to ask the same question over and over and over again until they get an answer they like.

 

And no, it is not "none of my business" - The fees we all pay go partly towards financing support and  if people had to pay maybe they would think twice before wasting Support time

Petra, I'm not certain if you're speaking in generalities and/or referring to this thread I started.  

 

One of my pet peeves on this platform are people that immediately go to Help and Support and/or this Community for answers that can be found if they'd just take some time to do do so.  IMO they're looking for a quick, easy answer.  Personally to the very best of my knowledge I've never done that with this platform or otherwise.

 

Regarding myself or anyone else asking the same questions over and over again and over again---when each time myself or others ask the same question and continue to receive different answers to the same question it's our right to continue to ask.  Of course I can't specifically speak for others; however, in my personal case I'm attempting to obtain truthful answers not answers I like.  

 

IMO those I've referred to in my second paragraph are wasting Support's time and/or Community's time.  I do not consider myself to be part of that group.   

What answer about past contracts would help you improve your JSS today? And, why ask a second time if you received an answer the first? Your post implies to me that you didn't like the first answer and that is why you kept asking. So, yes, I think that is part of the problem. 

 

People who want their JSS to be different harass CS trying to come up with some reason to claim that the calculation is unfair. Does it change anything about how the JSS is calculated? 


@Tonya P wrote:

 

People who want their JSS to be different harass CS trying to come up with some reason to claim that the calculation is unfair. Does it change anything about how the JSS is calculated? 


 That’s the bottom line.

If everyone demanded that the JSS calculation was adapted to maximise their own JSS according to their own circumstances and got their way, everyone would have a 100% JSS and the whole thing would be worthless. I think people forget that this is not a co-op or a democracy.

 

Upwork is a business, our skills are the product it sells. If metrics work for the business, that’s all the justification a business needs.

So, if I end all my contracts today because I have to start a long-term relationship with one client that pays me constantly (weekly or monthly), and if I keep this relationship going on for the next 2 years but I have no time for little tasks/contracts for other clients, basically I will have all 3 "windows" with 0 contracts and no new feedback at all, what happens to my JSS in 2 years from now?

I know it's an extreme case, this will never happen to me. It's just curiosity, and I'm not a cat 🙂

 


@Nicola P wrote:

So, if I end all my contracts today because I have to start a long-term relationship with one client that pays me constantly (weekly or monthly), and if I keep this relationship going on for the next 2 years but I have no time for little tasks/contracts for other clients, basically I will have all 3 "windows" with 0 contracts and no new feedback at all, what happens to my JSS in 2 years from now?

I know it's an extreme case, this will never happen to me. It's just curiosity, and I'm not a cat 🙂

 


It's not that extreme. I've been watching this thread out of curiosity; I'm on the verge of this exact scenario.

If you are so busy with your one client that you have no time for or interest in any other job or project for years on end, why would the JSS even matter?

Exactly! This one is my curiosity #2 regarding this subject 🙂


@Nicola P wrote:

Exactly! This one is my curiosity #2 regarding this subject 🙂


Maybe Valeria’s answer to my question earlier in the thread helps

 

@ Valeria K wrote:
Petra,

To your second point, I would like to clarify that you need to have worked with 3 distinct clients during you overall time on Upwork and at least 4 completed contracts in last 2 years in order for your JSS to be calculated.

Note, that if you've only been working with one client in the past 2 years, so long as work is actively being completed and paid for on the platform, your JSS will not go away.
 

@Petra and Tonya and of course anyone else interested:

 

For clarification sake my inquiry to CS regarding the change in my JSS involved two tickets.  The first ticket was automatically designated "Solved," and I received an automated response referring me to articles regarding JSS.  Since of course I'd thoroughly read all of that information in the past and knew none of it addressed my specific question, I submitted a new ticket stating such and that the automated "Solved" and response was not acceptable to me.  I continued to ask the same question within that second ticket while different CS reps responded with a variety of information.

 

Finally a rep at least appeared to answer my specific question, and I was very appreciative.  Furthermore, the rep thanked me for my insights and stated they'd be shared with the Product Development Team.  He continued to share that all suggestions are reviewed and evaluated to determine whether implementing them will impact members positively...  In addition, of course sharing within the Community is encouraged so UW can further determine what's important to their users.  Scripted/canned?---perhaps.  However, if that's the case, it has been changed as I have submitted previous tickets throughout my nearly 4 year tenure with oDesk/Upwork.

 

Of course we're all entitled to our opinions.  Evidently this is a subject whereby at least Petra/Tonya and I should simply agree to disagree.