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bannistercarl
Community Member

Premium Plan "Private Earnings" Discussion. ALL FEEDBACK NEEDED!

Hello Upwork Community,

 

I am a seasoned Upwork/oDesk freelancer with a Premium Plan account. It costs $15/month to get some extra goodies. Be aware of the "fine print" that comes with the Premium Plan though. The main reason I purchased the Premium Plan was to get that main feature of "keep your earnings confidential". I was not aware that feature only applies to the public looking at your profile. Once you engage with, or bid on the project, the potential client will then be able to see your past earnings. This allows them to compare your current quotes, if you have sent one, to your older, past client project earnings. RED FLAG! 

 

Why does Upwork feel the need to reveal those numbers once you have bid on a project? It is a serious question that I want a serious answer for. What agencies out there have a public board where you can see who spent what on which project at which time? NONE. That same, respectful approach on past earnings should always be kept condfidential. Always.

 

I am bringing attention to this so I can get an overall response on whether it is in favor to "Make All Earnings Exclusively Hidden" an option, or not. This may be a way for Upwork to make more money from freelancers like me to pay for that option.

 

Here is why it is important to have the option to hide all earnings. Each client and project are completely different from one another. What kind of business they have, how many employees, what kind of projects they need us(freelancers) to build, timelines, budgets, project scale, things like that. Therefore the costs differentiate client to client. Substancially sometimes. Allowing the client to compare past earnings to their quote is unfair, and should not even be a topic of dicussion, but it is. And I am now dealing with a larger client whom has halted their negotiations because they noticed my past earnings for someone else were much cheaper than what I quoted them for. It is a HUGE waste of my time to have to explain this to every client who wants to compare prices.

 

What about the freelancer, or agency, who has decided to restructure their services and costs? It happens, and we shouldn't have to explain to the potential client why the numbers aren't similar. That is confidential and should not be visible to anyone on Upwork, especially if I think I am paying for it.

 

Opinions? Facts? Ideas on how to change this problem ASAP?

 

I am hesitant to bid because my prices have changed recently, so any new projects I bid on will carry a potential risk of being misrepresented to the potential client because they can compare old costs.

 

Note: I did reach out to Upwork and talk with someone about this issue. They are passing my information and suggestions on, and also recommended I post on the Upwork Community Forum to discuss the topic publicly. Here we are.

 

Thanks!

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


Carl B wrote:

I see what you mean. And you're right, if you don't have anything to hide, then why hide it. Not all of the time is that necessary though.

 

In this business, I do feel my past earnings are confidential on many levels. I am more wanting to avoid having to explain each past project and why the price is different than this clients quote. It is counter-productive in my opinion – the industry standards, the overall work scope, which can range tremendously, the research, the design execution, everthing involved can determine the time commitments and design stages that create these total costs, high and low.


Carl, you have decades of experience and a long list of great reviews. There is no reason you should be justifying your rates to clients. If a client wants to quibble about what you've charged someone else before, simply say, "My current rate is $X. I understand if you need to go with a less expensive freelancer." Some will move on, some will pay your rate without further discussion. But, you'll never be stuck working with someone who feels he/she is paying too much and is therefore impossible to please.

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19 REPLIES 19
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "Why does Upwork feel the need to reveal those numbers once you have bid on a project?"

 

Upwork has stated that their research leads them to believe clients prefer to see dollar amounts associated with past projects, and that having that information makes clients more likely to hire freelancers and spend money.

 

I think this makes sense, and I believe them.

 

I personally do not shop in any stores that do not display prices for the products they are selling. I liken it to this. I am not bothered if you disagree.

 

I think one thing that helps in understanding this topic is to keep in mind the fact that freelancers are not Upwork's true customers. Some people think that it would be nice to have this "private earnings" feature as part of the "product offering" available to freelancers.

 

But Upwork isn't trying to "attract freelancers."

 

Upwork has plent of freelancers.

 

Upwork wants to attract clients, and earn money from clients hiring freelancers.

re: "What about the freelancer, or agency, who has decided to restructure their services and costs?'

 

You asked for opinions. Here is mine:

 

I really don't care.

 

If Upwork allowed me to hide my earnings for FREE, I still wouldn't do it.

 

I charge what I charge.

If my hourly rate goes up, then it goes up.

If a client asks me for a quote for a fixed-price contract task, I provide a number.

A client may choose to pay my rate, or not.

 

Anyway, with regards to fixed-price contracts: The only thing potential clients can see are job titles, feedback, and dollar amounts. There is no way for them to see detailed project descriptions, and no way for them to know exactly what work was done on these projects. I am not saying that it's the same for every freelancer, but for me, there is no practical way for clients to compare their task to somebody else's task. Even if it is very similar. What if I have a task that says "Review and write a report about MySQL database"? What if the client sees a dollar amount for that? Can he ask me to provide a quote that is the same dollar amount? No. Because one database was in very good shape, and only had 12 tables. While the other database was really a mess and had 89 tables. So no, I'm not necessarily going to charge the same rate for both clients, even though their job title could be exactly the same.

Spoiler
 

I get it. Thanks for sharing.

Great response! Thank you. I am spitballing here with solutions and answers, and open to any recommendations or ideas.

 

You can't really compare shopping in a store/product sales, to shopping for services as an online freelancer though. Two completely different business structures and Point of Sales. Providing a service can definitely be tricky when the sliding cost scale is so vast. It's very organic. Estimating a minimum, or average cost is probably best for those clients who ask. Allowing them to see past earnings to specific projects that do not fully disclose all of the details and work that went into each past project misrepresents my services dramatically. It is not accurate client to client.

 


Carl B wrote:

Great response! Thank you. I am spitballing here with solutions and answers, and open to any recommendations or ideas.

 

You can't really compare shopping in a store/product sales, to shopping for services as an online freelancer though. Two completely different business structures and Point of Sales. Providing a service can definitely be tricky when the sliding cost scale is so vast. It's very organic. Estimating a minimum, or average cost is probably best for those clients who ask. Allowing them to see past earnings to specific projects that do not fully disclose all of the details and work that went into each past project misrepresents my services dramatically. It is not accurate client to client.


I see what you're saying, but I can't say that it's ever been a problem for me - I've never had a client question why previous projects cost more or less than what I quoted them. In my proposals, I explain what services I think the client will need and how long I think it'll take, and if they decide that that's too much money, then so be it. I don't see why hiding my previous prices would be of any benefit to me; on the contrary, if someone doesn't have the budget to hire me, then it's for the best if we don't both waste our time. (And if I were a client, I'd be much less likely to hire a freelancer whose prices aren't visible; it would seem to me that an honest person wouldn't have anything to hide.)

Why my earnings are still visible after upgradiing to the "Plus memebership"?

Hi Yannick,

 

You need to go to Settings > Profile Settings and check the box to hide your earnings as shown in this screenshot. Feel free to check out this help article for more information.

 

Thank you.

~ Aleksandar
Upwork

Thank you for the tips.I did it.

gilbert-phyllis
Community Member

It never occurred to me to hide my earnings until I'd seen it discussed in this forum. (It's come up before.) I've never had a client mention what I charged on some other project. If they did, then I guess we'd have a conversation about it. But it wouldn't be a very long one because I have zero time or patience for someone who'd try to negotiate by referencing what I charged somebody else. They have no way of comparing apples to apples. If a client wants to work with me and the price I quote is beyond their budget, my first response is to discuss their project scope and see if we can adjust it to get worthwhile results with a smaller investment. 

 

lysis10
Community Member

I don't hide it because it has basically given me the ability to say "hi, yeah, I'm not a fraud obvs so you want me." It gives people a sense of trust, and lots of times people have read horror stories on the web and are a little hesitant about Upwork freelancers. 

 

The only real obstacle I have here is my pricing. I already know that my main reason for rejection is cost.

Anyone who doesn't hire Jennifer is making a foolish mistake.

 

I don't doubt she is worth every penny she charges.

 

I am fairly certain that MANY Upwork freelancers who have higher rates could share the same stories about being hired by clients who PREVIOUSLY hired far-less expensive freelancers... and found that doing so was a costly mistake.

When I see private earnings I feel as if I am watching little kids whispering secrets into each other's ear. I bet clients feel the same and prefer to go with someone who doesn't have anything to hide. I might be wrong though. Maybe clients don't give a "dime."


Sergio S wrote:

When I see private earnings I feel as if I am watching little kids whispering secrets into each other's ear. I bet clients feel the same and prefer to go with someone who doesn't have anything to hide. I might be wrong though. Maybe clients don't give a "dime."


When I see private earnings, I assume that the freelancer's profile rate is a lie.


Tiffany S wrote:

Sergio S wrote:

When I see private earnings I feel as if I am watching little kids whispering secrets into each other's ear. I bet clients feel the same and prefer to go with someone who doesn't have anything to hide. I might be wrong though. Maybe clients don't give a "dime."


When I see private earnings, I assume that the freelancer's profile rate is a lie.


Same here.

In fact I assume the freelancer is shady and move on.

 

As a client and when I was looking for staff for my previous jobs this was one of my "instant No-No" criteria, along with being addressed as "dear sir" and agencies.

 

Looking more closely, one almost invariably finds that such freelancers are working at far less than their profile rate. This leaves a very unpleasant aftertaste, because my first impression is that either the profile rate is artificially inflated to make the freelancer look "valuable" or the freelancer is trying to fleece unsuspecting clients, or the freelancer doesn't know what to charge.

Either way it's not something I want to deal with when hiring.

 

From a freelancer's point of view I've done 250 contracts and only once did a client have the nerve to question why I was proposing to charge them them a higher rate than one I had charged in the past. I said "Because I can" and withdrew my proposal.

 

Life's too short for clients like that.

 

But then my hourly rate is in line with what I actually charge (except for a couple of ancient clients who are grandfathered at their previous rate)

 

I see what you mean. And you're right, if you don't have anything to hide, then why hide it. Not all of the time is that necessary though.

 

In this business, I do feel my past earnings are confidential on many levels. I am more wanting to avoid having to explain each past project and why the price is different than this clients quote. It is counter-productive in my opinion – the industry standards, the overall work scope, which can range tremendously, the research, the design execution, everthing involved can determine the time commitments and design stages that create these total costs, high and low.


Carl B wrote:

I see what you mean. And you're right, if you don't have anything to hide, then why hide it. Not all of the time is that necessary though.

 

In this business, I do feel my past earnings are confidential on many levels. I am more wanting to avoid having to explain each past project and why the price is different than this clients quote. It is counter-productive in my opinion – the industry standards, the overall work scope, which can range tremendously, the research, the design execution, everthing involved can determine the time commitments and design stages that create these total costs, high and low.


Carl, you have decades of experience and a long list of great reviews. There is no reason you should be justifying your rates to clients. If a client wants to quibble about what you've charged someone else before, simply say, "My current rate is $X. I understand if you need to go with a less expensive freelancer." Some will move on, some will pay your rate without further discussion. But, you'll never be stuck working with someone who feels he/she is paying too much and is therefore impossible to please.

You're right. No need to explain why costs fluctuate, or are different from one another. Like others who have responded, I don't always have to deal with cost comparisons. Just sometimes. Moving on, and making money.

Thanks for the responses.

Yes, many of my current clients have come to me already jaded from a previous experience.

 

Love this saying...

"Yes, you can spend a lot on good design, but you will spend twice as much on bad design."

There's like 5 ways to say it, but you get what I mean.

 

My main goal here was to see what others thought about the private earnings feature. And to shed light on the vague way Upwork discloses the earnings are not 100% exclusive forever. That is what I thought, so I was a little caught off guard when this potential client said he was comparing my previous prices with my current ones.

 

All good though. I have taken a lot from this and have made some adjustments and notes on how to handle this topic in the future.

There are many things that I can not afford.

 

There is nothing wrong with that.

 

If a client can not afford my rate, that is okay. Don't hire me. Or hire me for just thirty minutes... just to talk to... As a consultation.

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