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victoria_walters
Community Member

Private Feedback's Effect on JSS and the Negative/Non-Constructive Behavior it Enforces

Private feedback seems to allow the client to be passive aggressive and contributes to confusion and damage to a freelancer's very PUBLIC JSS. If a client has an issue, it should be hashed out and resolved with the freelancer so that they can learn from their experiences. It is very unprofessional to allow for private feedback- the public feedback should be the only feedback used in JSS since your public score is what clients base their decisions off of when they hire you, but the JSS reflects both private and public feedback.. I had steller public feedback with raving clients, but got bumped out of Top Rated and down to 88% after several clients left bad feedback rather than being mature and discussing whatever their issue or opinion was with me so that I could help resolve it. It's not constructive and it is very debasing to a freelancer's profile to allow this negative, high-school type talking behind the back. Let's be professional, and let's be real. If there is an issue, I want to know and I want to fix it- not have it creep up out of nowhere to obliterate my JSS, making me look like a screw up to potential clients when I have otherwise excellent feedback.

 

How is this still a feature on Upwork?  It enforces and enables clients to be fake, giving good feedback publicly but trash talking them in private, which in fact does affect the freelancer's score publicly.  Seems very backwards.  If my PUBLIC JSS takes in to account my PRIVATE feedback then why is it public?  I would like to see this feature changed.  If the feedback affects my score, it should be public so that I and others can know what went wrong.  Private feedback should not be factored into our score. 

 

I was TOP Rated, had all 5/5 from 99% of clients and suddenly dropped to 88% with no indication of why except some mystery private feedback, so when new clients go to hire me, my JSS scares them off before they see that publicly, I have excited clients that happily gave me 5/5.  I have no idea why they weren't happy privately and can't see how I can improve when the feedback is done this way.

 

If you want to collect private feedback, then keep it as such- don't mix it in with my public features such as JSS.  I'd rather see Upwork use the private feedback to give helpful constructive tips to freelancers rather than a tool to lower scores without knowledge of the issue.  

 

See images attached, all great feedback.  One 4/5 and support says that sin't enough to lower my score, so my JSS was clearly solely impacted by private feedback- confirmed by Upwork.

11 REPLIES 11
robin_hyman
Community Member

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  I fear the same thing every two weeks.  You have to face the facts:  some clients don't like confrontation and don't want to give you the truth to your face, on the message board or publicly on this platform.  Others probably have no idea how their private feedback would negatively affect your JSS and therefore, your reputation on Upwork.  

 

A couple of weeks ago I had a call with a client who was new to Upwork.  The red flags were there but I kept moving it along to get the job.  To protect myself, I did a check-in prior to submitting a first draft of her landing page re-write.  She asked questions and luckily, decided to end the job.  And she paid me for my time.  As she responded that it wasn't going to work, I jumped online and wrote this message:

 

"Thank you for the honestly.  I wish you lots of luck.  You will be asked for feedback.  Please be positive about the private feedback which impacts my reputation."

 

She gave me five stars private feedback which didn't impact my JSS.

 

You have some valid points but I don't think Upwork will change their algorithm for JSS.  Instead, you'll have to change the way you manage your clients.  Be upfront from the beginning and ask they do the same.  You're working together to accomplish a given task.  It takes two.  And if they don't like what you're doing, they need to tell you.  I believe if you continue to be honest and produce, you'll be rewarded accordingly.  

 

Don't give up!  Can you use your Top Rated perk to remove the 4-star feedback?

Hi Robin,

 

I'm definitely going to adjust how I approach contracts- and particularly the through nature of our communication and clarification during the beginning of future projects.  Going to extra triple check that we are on the same page for goals, timelines, and deliverables (like I always do, but even more so now).  And to really keep tabs during to make sure that their priorities and expectations haven't shifted unbeknowst to me.  

 

It seems that the 4/5 score wasn't affecting my JSS nearly as much as the private feedback was, so I had to guess and remove a job that seemingly had an excellent report to try to fix my score.  Hard to know which to pick, since all of the clients had nothing but great things to say publicly.  I never ransom or harass my clients for good feedback as some contirubutors have mentioned in other threads about JSS and private feedback, and I've always felt we had open, meaningful communication during the projects so it's very surprising to have this jolt of negativity and score loss via Private Feedback.  

 

I hope that Upwork will consider altering the way that theyuse this private information to turn this into a positive, constructive exercise if they want to keep the option for Private Feedback.  We should be able to know what the issues were, or at least have Upwork send us tips on how to improve, without being blindsided on our JSS.  Let's figure out a better way to let clients know where we can improve that doesn't undermine the freelancers.

tlbp
Community Member

 


Victoria W wrote:

Private feedback seems to allow the client to be passive aggressive and contributes to confusion and damage to a freelancer's very PUBLIC JSS. If a client has an issue, it should be hashed out and resolved with the freelancer so that they can learn from their experiences. It is very unprofessional to allow for private feedback- the public feedback should be the only feedback used in JSS since your public score is what clients base their decisions off of when they hire you, but the JSS reflects both private and public feedback.. I had steller public feedback with raving clients, but got bumped out of Top Rated and down to 88% after several clients left bad feedback rather than being mature and discussing whatever their issue or opinion was with me so that I could help resolve it. It's not constructive and it is very debasing to a freelancer's profile to allow this negative, high-school type talking behind the back. Let's be professional, and let's be real. If there is an issue, I want to know and I want to fix it- not have it creep up out of nowhere to obliterate my JSS, making me look like a screw up to potential clients when I have otherwise excellent feedback.

 

How is this still a feature on Upwork?  It enforces and enables clients to be fake, giving good feedback publicly but trash talking them in private, which in fact does affect the freelancer's score publicly.  Seems very backwards.  If my PUBLIC JSS takes in to account my PRIVATE feedback then why is it public?  I would like to see this feature changed.  If the feedback affects my score, it should be public so that I and others can know what went wrong.  Private feedback should not be factored into our score. 

 

I was TOP Rated, had all 5/5 from 99% of clients and suddenly dropped to 88% with no indication of why except some mystery private feedback, so when new clients go to hire me, my JSS scares them off before they see that publicly, I have excited clients that happily gave me 5/5.  I have no idea why they weren't happy privately and can't see how I can improve when the feedback is done this way.

 

If you want to collect private feedback, then keep it as such- don't mix it in with my public features such as JSS.  I'd rather see Upwork use the private feedback to give helpful constructive tips to freelancers rather than a tool to lower scores without knowledge of the issue.  

 

See images attached, all great feedback.  One 4/5 and support says that sin't enough to lower my score, so my JSS was clearly solely impacted by private feedback- confirmed by Upwork.


Private feedback isn't intended to help freelancers improve, it is intended to get an honest view of their current abilities. JSS is also not a device intended to train freelancers, it is intended to give prospective clients a full and accurate appraisal of what the freelancer is capable of delivering. 


In general, the feedback system is not a self-development program for freelancers but an assessment tool for clients. Freelancers who want to make improvements or learn on the job aren't going to get the information they need from Upwork's feedback system but through open and continuous communication with their clients throughout the work engagement. 

I think that the public feedback SHOULD be an honest review of how the Freelancer performs.  otherwise, what the heck is it for?  That's asinine to have both types of feedback and have one "fake" public review and one "honest" review if both affect the score equally or enough so that either can be detrimental OR helpful for client decisions.  Clients can't see other clients private feedback, but they can see the JSS.  It's just pointless to have both.  We need to all be able to have honest, open communication and rankings.


Victoria W wrote:

I think that the public feedback SHOULD be an honest review of how the Freelancer performs.  otherwise, what the heck is it for?  That's asinine to have both types of feedback and have one "fake" public review and one "honest" review if both affect the score equally or enough so that either can be detrimental OR helpful for client decisions.  Clients can't see other clients private feedback, but they can see the JSS.  It's just pointless to have both.  We need to all be able to have honest, open communication and rankings.


I am sure someone will come along who was actually there but in case they don't my understanding is that as a matter of history this is how it used to work and what happened is that freelancers would beg, plead, and return the money so that they got positive feedback in the end.  So they built this system to prevent FL from changing the client's minds.

 

It really is a stupid system though, but I don't know that anything is going to be done about it.


Victoria W wrote:

I think that the public feedback SHOULD be an honest review of how the Freelancer performs.  otherwise, what the heck is it for?  That's asinine to have both types of feedback and have one "fake" public review and one "honest" review if both affect the score equally or enough so that either can be detrimental OR helpful for client decisions.  Clients can't see other clients private feedback, but they can see the JSS.  It's just pointless to have both.  We need to all be able to have honest, open communicof cultuation and rankings.


It SHOULD be, yes. There are several reasons it isn't. Some clients are just cowardly. Some are of cultures where the socially acceptable thing to do is always speak positively in public, regardless of facts. Some fear that other freelancers will be hesitant to work with them if they leave negative feedback. Some fear harassment by freelancers (with good reason--many freelancers have boasted here about how they hounded clients into changing their feedback). Some give in to freelancer demands to change their feedback.

 

Once upon a time, not all that long ago, we all had average star ratings and there was no such thing as JSS. But, it became obviously that public feedback was very often a lie, and that if ratings were to be even remotely accurate, a private component was required.


Victoria W wrote:

I think that the public feedback SHOULD be an honest review of how the Freelancer performs.  otherwise, what the heck is it for? 


Nothing, it (public feedback) is just meaningless eye-candy.

 

It SHOULD have been an honest review, but that was ruined by hysterical freelancers hounding clients to the point of them fleeing the platform for good, threatening, blackmailing, hijacking clients' sites etc etc if they didn't get 5 stars just for turning up.

 

 

That's unfortunate.  Perhaps, rather than the private feedback- we need to have a penalty protocol for freelancers that abuse the system by harassing clients.  It would be a bit lenghtier of a process for Upwork because they would have cases to review to prove who was in the right- but at least we could get the honesty back into the system so we can have earnest, truthful feedback within the community.  There has to be a consequence for harassing clients- if you did this on a regular, non-upwork style contract out in "the real world" the client would sue you for harassment and holding their IP hostage.   So if a client could prove that the freelancer undoubtedly was harassing, badgering and threatening- there should be outsourcing to an affiliated legal firm that would help handle these instances just as they would be handled in other environments.  Or at the bare minimum, bar the **bleep** freelancer from Upwork for acting like a raving child in an adult community.

 

I hope that some way, this community can evolve back to a place where public feedback has real value and there isn't a need for "secret" feedback that undermines the public review.  I can understand why it's there for those people who have taken advantage, but I still think there is a better way.

The Bottom Line is that I love Upwork and the freelancer community.  I just think that there is still some work to be done with feedback protocols that can make the community more mature, honest, and constructive.  Truth, consequence, and communication.

Dear Victoria, Please let me know how did you over come with JJS dropdown? I see you have again 100 JSS now, Congrates to that. This happend to me also and It effected me badly. Please let me know how to overcome this and improve JSS? Thank you

ksandr-vip
Community Member

I am too, my JSS decreated 100% to 83% in this week. The client and me had good cummunication and I completed project perfectly. so he gave me 5 star - public feedback. But the JSS decreased.

I think the JSS is greatly influenced by private feedback.

You should always concern public and private feedbacks when end contract, even though you complete perfectly.

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