Problem with Job Success score- UpWork dont care about Freelancers

[slavenac]

I was writing about this problem on Upwork couple of times, and now I am sure that some problem exist how UpWork rating the problem, also UpWork cut the support help about this.

My score did not change from the time UpWork get down my score on 60 %. Even when I done everthing , and I fix my problem with employers who did not fix my job, this was done, and I got good rating from them, 2 jobs was fixed, 1 web link I remove from my profile, and nothing, was change, so it is really impossible to back on good rate when UpWork put you down. Why is like that? Can we got serious answers??

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Tomislav, 

JSS is calculated on 6-12 and 24 months windows, for example if your good contracts are pushed outside of this window your JSS will be calculated on the contracts that are left in this time frame.
Keep in mind that even if you have enabled you`re clients to change the feedback they will be able to only change the public feedback not the private.

Contracts with no feedback and inactive contracts are also included in the calculation, to learn more about this you can visit this guides: My Job Success Score and Why Did My Job Success Score Change?.

[rahatur]

Here is a question, lets say a freelancer complete three jobs and now working on the fourth job.
Each job took two years to complete. So three jobs in last six years.

In the first two jobs the freelancer had very good feedback and on the third job the freelancer had bad feedback. So if you consider all the jobs his success rate would be 66% (2 out of 3).

But since the JSS window is of 24 months max so while the freelancer is working on the fourth job his JSS would be almost 0% as the system would be considering the last job due to the window size. Won’t this make it harder to hunt for the fifth job at this point?

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Rahatur,

This will be depend on the time frame when you start searching for new job. The JSS will be calculated on the last 2 years only, the previous feedback will pushed out of this window and will not be included in the calculation. Longer-term relationships are a plus and can help boost your score. But not having them won't count against you. You can also focus on finishing short fixed price contracts as they will be included in your calculation little bit faster.

[rahatur]

Hi Goran,
that is the problem. If the first tow jobs are out of the window (which were positive) and the third one is only counted then isn't is difficult for a freelancer to hunt new jobs (even smaller jobs) with a poor JSS? Where as if all jobs were counted then the JSS would be much better. Isn't that a huge negative of the JSS calculation logic?

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Rahatur, 

I understand your concern and that there is always an expectation, as I have mentioned below: You can also focus on finishing short fixed price contracts as they will be included in your calculation little bit faster. Thank for your feedback I will share it with our team.

[slavenac]

Hi to both guys  that replay here on my post , the problem is also here that UpWork do not count good, and I have 2 different answers , first one of the person here, the UpWork stuff, note me that yesterday UpWork will count new Job Score , because it past two weeks, but nothing happen with my Job rating. it is stay 60 % . This is amazing, and very bad. You need to apply that I have 2 changes with my previous jobs. For 2 jobs I got 2 new rating in last two week, and what happen ? Nothing. My score did not moved up, and also for both this 2 jobs I got 5 star rating. So there is no point to send to us, to Freelancers how you count everything and explanations, the point is to count good and correct . You understand ? 

[tlsanders]

You only have 8 closed jobs in the two-year window (you're only showing one new feedback in December, not two). Of those, four are 5-star, two are lower, and two have no feedback. If in fact the new feedback was left during the last week of December, and so was new for this contract, it would not necessarily have moved the score, since you do not know what kind of private feedback the client left. 

[slavenac]

Ok, yes maybe I did not say in coerrect way about feedback, but first explanation of UpWork was , that I have those 2 jobs are not closed, and nothing happen with them and then I have one more suggestion that I need to remove web address , and all this things I done in more then 2 weeks, and it was really normal to see some changes on Job Score. And what happen? Nothing. I mean how to get the job on UpWork, if continue to drop down the Job Score in this kind of way? I use to believe that Elance was hard sometimes, but now I see that Elance have more better rules about this problem.

[rahatur]

Hi Goran,
I understhand some quick jobs would increase the JSS. But in the sceneario explained how can someone get even shorter jobs with such bad JSS? To me it looks like if someone is in that position there is no turning back. Just trying to figureout the logic behind the JSS window.

[petra_r]

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@Md Rahatur R wrote:

 Just trying to figureout the logic behind the JSS window.

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 What you did 4 years ago becomes near irrelevant at some point. You're to be considered as good as your most recent performance.

[rahatur]

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@Petra R wrote:

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 What you did 4 years ago becomes near irrelevant at some point. You're to be considered as good as your most recent performance.

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Well it would not become irrelevant if you had broken down the each job into 1 year or 6 months duration instead of two years. Same jobs, same clients but you can still influence the JSS by breaking down the jobs into multiple jobs. I do not see how it is fair or logical in context of your comment.

[petra_r]

Your question is irrelevant anyway as in your hypothetical situation the freelancer would have no JSS at all because you need a minimum number of ended contracts from at least 3 different clients in at least the 2 year window to have a JSS at all. 

[rahatur]

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@Petra R wrote:

Your question is irrelevant anyway as in your hypothetical situation the freelancer would have no JSS at all because you need a minimum number of ended contracts from at least 3 different clients in at least the 2 year window to have a JSS at all. 

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 Where did you get this information from? Its not mentiond here: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211063558-What-is-a-Job-Success-Score-

[g_vasilevski]

Hi Rahatur,

More than 90% of freelancers have a score after 5 projects. Since not all projects and clients are equal, the length of time will vary. Nearly all freelancers have scores after completing eight projects.
For more details about this please check out this Help Article.

[patty_pretty]

My question is. Isn't a good thing that I have a client for 2 years??

[petra_r]

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@Patricia M wrote:

My question is. Isn't a good thing that I have a client for 2 years??

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Who said that it isn‘t?  

[bshaw420]

The problem with this method is that it hurts us when one person gives you an unsatisfactory rating.  Look at my history for example,  I have four that are 5 stars and one 4.45 star, but none of that matters becuase the most recent person gave me a 3.25 rating.  Now, I don't "qualify" for any of the job postings.  One person has ruined all of my hard work because we couldnt agree on the final product of a project.  

The Upwork success rating system is severly flawed in this instance.   Yes, I have heard that I need new jobs to boost my score, but how am I supposed to do that, when my quotes are filtered out because I don't meet the 90% score???

[petra_r]

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@Bryan S wrote:

  Yes, I have heard that I need new jobs to boost my score, but how am I supposed to do that, when my quotes are filtered out because I don't meet the 90% score???

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 Your proposals are not filtered out. You are free to apply to jobs with a preference you don't meet.

Those are preferences.

Yes, when you have only 6 jobs and 2 of those didn't go 100% perfectly that's going to hit your JSS. To a degree that is exactly what it is designed to do.

But ultimately there will always be difficult clients and difficult contracts and the sooner you learn to weed as many of them out before you work with them, and how to carefully manage the ones you failed to weed out so the project still ends successfully, the sooner you will be able to keep your JSS high.

[bshaw420]

Thanks for your reply Petra, but statistically speaking, scoring people on such few results is a flawed process.  Specially, when these go to mediation, which it did.  I agreed to refund half, in exchange for the ratings removal.   Of course the refund was processed, but the rating removal never was.  I get that there will always be difficult clients, but the 77%, on the surface, appears poor.  With no clear way to resolve this, it is dissapointing to say the least.

[petra_r]

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@Bryan S wrote:

  I agreed to refund half, in exchange for the ratings removal.   Of course the refund was processed, but the rating removal never was.

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 That is both forbidden and impossible.

Forbidden: Feedback or its removal must never be negotiated in return for refunds or payment.

Impossible: Because private feedback CAN NOT be removed, that "deal" - even if it was allowed (it is not), would never have had the effect you wanted it to have.

[melaniekhenson]

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@Bryan S wrote:

Thanks for your reply Petra, but statistically speaking, scoring people on such few results is a flawed process

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Yes and no, because aren't sticking with it (not giving up), resolving issues, building a reputation and communicating with clients part of "success" as a freelancer?

We all have to go through the process of building a reputation and getting jobs. It's not just you. Every one of us was in the precarious position of only having had a few jobs. Some of us took huge hits very early on and had to learn from that. 

You give up, in which case freelancing probably isn't for you, or you take matters into your own hands, choose jobs carefully and really nail them, act professionally, etc. If the entire process were fatally flawed, pretty much nobody would get past those first few jobs. Freelancing is about much more than accepting a job, turning it in and getting paid. You are your own brand and you're expected to handle the process - even the ugly parts. That's what the flip side of the "independent" in independent contractor means.

Freelancing really isn't for everybody. You have to be tough, persistent, professional...you have to manage your contracts, not just do the projects. Stick with it and you will rise above a certain percentage for that factor alone. Then just keep going and keep rebuilding, but get smarter each time.

[bshaw420]

Melanie, this is where I would insert an eye-roll.  Please do not pretend to know what is "for me or not for me".  You know very little about the situation and the conversation wasn't directed at you. 

[melaniekhenson]

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@Bryan S wrote:

Melanie, this is where I would insert an eye-roll.  Please do not pretend to know what is "for me or not for me".  You know very little about the situation and the conversation wasn't directed at you. 

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I *don't* know, that's the whole point. You are the one who will decide whether this is for you. And that will depend upon a variety of factors. Just as with every single one of us here.

But we all have to go through this beginning stage.

And, hmm...I wasn't aware that the conversation was directed at any one person...? You posted on a public board.

Anyway, good luck. 🙂

[petra_r]

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@Bryan S wrote:

Thanks for your reply Petra, but statistically speaking, scoring people on such few results is a flawed process. 

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To be honest, I disagree. It is disappointing on a personal level, but for the business it makes sense.

Let's go back a step or two.

Upwork has too many freelancers

Freelancers are a dime a dozen. Losing freelancers is not a problem.

Money comes from clients. Losing clients is a big problem.

Clients who have great experiences with the freelancers they hire will on average hire more often and on average spend more money.

Clients who have poorer experiences with the freelancers they hire will on average hire less often and spend less money.

So it is in Upwork's interest to promote freelancers who have the better chance of creating better client experiences and less of a chance of a poor client outcome. (That way Upwork makes more money.)

The sooner Upwork establishes which freelancers tend to lead to great client experiences the sooner they can "push" those freelancers. No point waiting until a poor freelancer has created a whole bunch of poor client experiences and possibly chased clients away from the platform altogether before limiting their access to even more clients to disappoint.

Hence the need to calculate a JSS early on (damage limitation when a freelancer isn't creating great client experiences early on at worst and giving more opportunity to get more jobs more easily with a good JSS at best).

You can get your JSS up again, we have seen many people who made mistakes early on and got a poor JSS as a result get their act together and become top rated in a relatively short period of time.