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creativedigit
Member

Publishing the video tutorials before the merger

A freelancer sent me a private message on the community forum today and asked for my advise on why they weren't lucky to get their proposals accepted recently though they have over 170 completed jobs on Upwork... And then I thought of sharing some maths with you!

 

Upwork promised earlier in this forum that they're preparing to launch an Upwork University containing video tutorials on how to use the platform for both freelancers & clients. This is essentially helpful for everyone, especially that I personally (and many are like me) love to see what does the client see exactly on their screen in the hirign process, so we can optimize our future proposals accordingly.

 

So since announcing the merger, many freelancers reported lots of spamming jobs or jobs where nobody is accepted for work. But are they really spam? What's the chances of let's say, those spam postings are in fact initiated by freelance oDeskers who want to know more about the hiring process for the client? Then what if part of those are by Elancers who had no idea neither about oDesk nor about Upwork and they also needed to know more about the hiring process to optimize their proposals?

 

But hold on a second, what happens when a sea of Elancers come to this platform after 38 days from now to invade the platform & do unlimited tests and Try&Errors to understand how this works out... And then the curios ones posting jobs again to see how the hiring process works?

 

Listen I have no real stats on whether what I'm saying is even close to reality... But a little gene sitting in my mind tells me if Upwork isn't going to post the Upwork University videos soon, things might get really messy in the next few weeks.

 

They call me crazy you know... but I've been clever enough to convince the people at the madhouse that I'm normal so they let me out.

 

Best regards,

Wassim

20 REPLIES 20
jolash
Member

Wassim , You might want to retitle this: 'The (uneasy) calm before the storm.

 

The phrase 'Commiting suicide' might not help a lot freelancers  who might not have the nerves of steel which I think you have.

 

But then back to the issue at hand , you are right when you say a lot of 'Trial and Error' might be going on - but you underestimate the human capacity to adapt to and survive these scenarios- so things might not get as messy as you think.

 

I want to believe the platform has been scaled to accomodate the newcomers.

 

Sometimes, 'the more the merrier' might just have an element of thruth to it. 

 

If it does not , it might just be time to upgrade those skill sets and move higher up the ladder.

If it's the same message that a lot of people are getting, it's literally a freelancer threatening to commit suicide if the platform doesn't give them work soon.

menikhildesai
Member

tumblr_mhnq7z0WIQ1r9f991o1_500.gif

computerhxr
Member

Don't put all of your eggs in one basket!

 

Try to create a side business so that you're not dependent on Upwork.  

 

When you're not working, learn something!  There's a TED talk that explains that you can learn to do something moderately well in only 20 hours!  Learn psychology, marketing, and business because it's helpful for finding work and maintaining positive working relationship with clients.

 

TED Talk:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MgBikgcWnY

 

If you don't stand out among the applicants, then you might need to find another job that might be more suitable for your skill-set.  

 

A flood of new talent isn't really a concern for everyone.  Mainly for those who need to work on improving their skills!

 

Best regards,

Daniel

Change the title. That's disgusting and dangerous considering what many here are experiencing.

zaidimariam
Member

The title made me uneasy but sounds more like click bait once you open the thread...

Jean & Mariam, 

 

Thanks for the advice. Title changed as requested. 

 

Best regards, 

Wassim 

This was the most random group of responses I've ever seen and none were even remotely on topic or with any pence of worthiness besides the first response.

 

That said, I agree but at the same time I've never used a single odesk or elance blog posting or reference material. They're done by non-affiliated or proven online freelancers most of the time. A review of either site's blog posting show delusional business scenarios, client pandering in detriment of your own business and sometimes just people looking to self-advertise for their own ad marketing presence.

 

That said I do agree that the videos should have been and in all honesty well before the merger. Obviously turn-over is occurring on both ends and a lot of downsizing and reorganization, which happens with any acquisition, but it looks like the relaunch of the site occurred with no thought to any development.

 

You look at every software level in the market and there's always internal, alpha and beta testing. It's always controlled and done with an educated test sampling matter. My 5 page websites alone can take 2 hours to test on all platforms and make sure there's no CSS rendering conflicts or JS/PHP conflicts.

 

Considering all of this was done and they knew they were going to migrate domains makes it all the more bewildering. As to the university part of odesk I'm just gonna use my savings to wait for 1-2 more months and see what else is linted and changed by the company before even making an attempt.

 

I mean when you get a survey saying how you feel about us charging 22% instead of 10% it tells you we're all just a part of the testing grounds for this company for the next few months.

Brian,

 

The initial responses were not "random." You are missing the context for the valid concerns expressed in the first few posts. They were not off the topic as originally stated, and also make reference to earlier posts on this forum.

Best,
Michael

I think we're splitting hairs on this one. All the post were actually concerning the original post's title and I did mention not all post were random. It was more an observation going down the list of responses. No one that saw Wassim's orignial title will have any idea what this topic is about. 

 

Point in case:


@Ramon B. wrote:

I have no idea what the original post is about,  but anyone who claims they'll kill themselves just because they can't earn a pittance online needs to get some dignity and sense of proportion. 


 

lysis10
Member

If it's Upwork/Elance inviting you, you'll know.

 

Also, it will be a zoo when Elance closes off new jobs. That's why I wanted to get a head start. Instead of begging them to stay, I'm more of an adapt or die person. So, I'm hoping I can pull out some of what I usually do and figure stuff out. 🙂

 

170 connects and no wins. Man that's tough. It goes through my mind too that it could be me. 

 

That bottle of wine is looking so awesome right now.

Hi Jennifer, 

 

I think he meant someone who has over 170 completed jobs ( not 170 spent connects ) cant find jobs recently.  Which is odd since he is a proven veteran.

 

I read somewhere that how clients view proposal is quite different now. They wont hide profiles anymore but clients can view 10 proposals only ( not sure how they are sorted out, order of application or rotational priority etc ) at a time and can decide whether to view another 10 again, and another as so forth. So the approach of how we apply will definitely impact this change. Well I am learning again since I havent sent a proposal for 1.5 years because I merely work through invites and when they changed the Algo for that, well I guess you know what happened lol. Ive sent 14 proposals, 1 hire, 0 interview lol. 

One thing I learned in this platform. Being the best is not enough. You need timing and luck at your side as well.  And continue courting the clients you have, so you wont lose them to someone else. 

 

 

//////////////

 

Michael is correct. This is a pilot program at the moment.

 

If the proposal limit comment is true it's the smartest decision in the world. But only if the client was limited to fully viewing 10 proposals, which different than seeing the bids, which should all be viewable. Why? 

 

This is the con argument:

I want to see everything! It's not fair.

 

Real world application:

95% of people have no idea what they want. More options causes more confusion. When everything is free everybody wants it. When there's no direction to a situation it just causes unlimited dormant actions and repeated behaviors. Force people to choose and then they're forced to think because there's consequence to the action.

 

For anyone arguing this take the client who you haven't offered unlimited to revisions to and compare them to the person you've told only gets 2 to 3 rounds of revisions. I guarantee you'll see more defined answers, feedback and an expectation from the client of what to expect.

 

If you don't then either your client is walking all over you or just had an uncormfortable conversation where you had to kindly tell them the rules of project and that now they have broken them. Always pick the latter. It helps you out and educates the client to be more proactive and more thoughtful/careful in their decisions and observation of work.

 

Sidenote: I'm for differing opinion but if a response to this is simply "I'll hurt my clients feelings" then one person definitely shouldn't even be in business (hint: it's the emotional one). Money, business and contracts don't come with emotion-handles for you to carry your work in.

Well my comment about continuously trying to court your client meant that you continue doing your best for them. You still exceed their expectations and try to instill to their mind that you are the person they need when they have a job. I try to be friends with my clients, but I dont over familiarize myself to a point that I would think I can skip a deadline because we are buddies. 

 

Let them know from time to time you are available if they have a project if you haven't talked to them in a while. Sometimes people think its a weakness and desperate when you follow up on projects or prospect jobs but sometimes showing a little interest makes a difference. 

 

I dont take my clients for granted, and they do the same to me. If a client tries to walk over me, I step aside let them go to someone else. It takes two to tango or err I mean its takes....you know what I mean. 😛

 

Keeping established connections open is always a great move. I was more referring to clients being overwhelmed with options and not being focused in initial project postings.


@Roman M wrote:

Hi Jennifer, 

 

I think he meant someone who has over 170 completed jobs ( not 170 spent connects ) cant find jobs recently.  Which is odd since he is a proven veteran.

 

I read somewhere that how clients view proposal is quite different now. They wont hide profiles anymore but clients can view 10 proposals only ( not sure how they are sorted out, order of application or rotational priority etc ) at a time and can decide whether to view another 10 again, and another as so forth. So the approach of how we apply will definitely impact this change. Well I am learning again since I havent sent a proposal for 1.5 years because I merely work through invites and when they changed the Algo for that, well I guess you know what happened lol. Ive sent 14 proposals, 1 hire, 0 interview lol. 

One thing I learned in this platform. Being the best is not enough. You need timing and luck at your side as well.  And continue courting the clients you have, so you wont lose them to someone else. 


You are right. Wine+writing exam questions all day for someone = no reading comprehension. lol

 

The invite thing has me worried too. I used to get invited a lot. Mainly, I think, because I was holding steady at #3 in their list of tech writers. Now, I feel like I'm starting over. I feel like bidding on Elance now is like hanging out in a cemetary where ghosts just won't let go. lol


@Roman M wrote:

 

I read somewhere that how clients view proposal is quite different now. They wont hide profiles anymore but clients can view 10 proposals only (not sure how they are sorted out, order of application or rotational priority etc) at a time and can decide whether to view another 10 again, and another as so forth.


Roman,

 

@The format you describe has been verified by @Garnor as a pilot that is expected to become the norm. I don't know enough about Upwork to characterize the 10-item list as being "bids," "proposals," or something else. We have no information about how Upwork chooses the 10 items shown, or the x-10 items effectively hidden.

 

Best,

Michael

I have no idea what the original post is about,  but anyone who claims they'll kill themselves just because they can't earn a pittance online needs to get some dignity and sense of proportion. 

I would rather Upwork document its procedures—e.g., the secret method of converting hourly jobs to fixed-price—before spending apparently strained resources on videos.

Best to all,
Michael
suznee
Member

Wassim,

 

I brought up something similar to what if about the spam jobs or all the jobs that no one is  hired for in a thread back in April.

 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/All-The-Fake-Jobs-and-No-Hires/m-p/77630#M33029

 

Oh and if you got a message from someone saying they were going to kill themselves there was another thread. 

 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/disturbing-private-message/m-p/84938#M38137

 

Some may think get a life, but not everyone handles losing their only income very well. Whether they should be telling a stranger this. Well that is another story, but many people have committed suicide when they are depressed and no jobs and no security.

 

Google suicide and income or job loss. It is not something people should casually go oh get a life ... It is a hard fact that when people have no income and become depressed that suicide increases. Look at statistics furing 2012. They were higher then the great depression was on people who took their lives cause they couldn't find jobs.