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Quality of job posts have dramatically decreased

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Community Leader
Mateo R. S Member Since: Dec 13, 2018
21 of 69

If i could... i would challenge you to open a new account, with no history and no rep, and try to land a job now, and compare it to land a job when you started out, i´m telling you it is not the same, many people are saying this for a reason, i can assure you i dont bid on crappy jobs, i have said no because of low rates, i believe a have a good portfolio, i was landing cool jobs before, and now it has stoped, yeah probelms might be the same for years, but it is getting heavier, but again, a succesful freelancer that needs only to bid on a couple of proposals a week to get jobs, wont never see the etruggles we have today... that might sound like the things people have been saying for years, but trust me, the levels of it are not the same.

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Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
22 of 69

@2f5ff562 wrote:

If i could... i would challenge you to open a new account, with no history and no rep, and try to land a job now, and compare it to land a job when you started out, i´m telling you it is not the same, many people are saying this for a reason

 

I know things continue to change. The thing is, when I joined Upwork about 2.5 years ago, there were people in the forums constantly talking about how things had changed and they used to be able to get good clients but now there was too much competition and the jobs were all fake and everyone wanted to pay $5....and then, at every point during those 2.5 years, the same thing. The reasons people point to change, but the things they (you) are saying are exactly the same as the things they were saying my first week.


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Community Leader
Mateo R. S Member Since: Dec 13, 2018
23 of 69

Ok, i´ll give you that, complaints have always been the same, can i ask you something? have you ever complaint about that too? on any point in time on your career? have this been a struggle for you in the past? if the answer is yes, then it would be good to share some advice on how did you overcome that, we can use that more than we can use the arguement of: oh i have seen that in the past, there´s nothing new on your complaint, move on. I say this with all respect you deserve.

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Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
24 of 69

Jesús Mateo R wrote:

Ok, i´ll give you that, complaints have always been the same, can i ask you something? have you ever complaint about that too? on any point in time on your career? have this been a struggle for you in the past? if the answer is yes, then it would be good to share some advice on how did you overcome that, we can use that more than we can use the arguement of: oh i have seen that in the past, there´s nothing new on your complaint, move on. I say this with all respect you deserve.


Yes, that's a fair point, and I definitely did my fair share of complaining when I was starting out (and still do). Nobody is saying that you shouldn't come here and vent if you need to. But taking the attitude that things were easier in the past and that's the reason you're not successful, or that you're not successful because all of the clients are scammers and cheapskates - that's going to be counter-productive for you. And it's simply not true. There are good clients out there, and if you look at the histories of some of the "gurus" in the forum, it'll be obvious to you that it's possible to be successful here.

 

Upwork has loads of resources on how to improve your profile, how to make bids, how to protect yourself against scams, etc., so if you want to learn, start reading. And the rest is just experience, hard work and learning from your mistakes. There's no real "secret". 

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Community Leader
Mateo R. S Member Since: Dec 13, 2018
25 of 69

Ok, we are starting to understand each other, sorry if it seems i came in too hard, i didn´t mean to have an ¨attitude¨, i know you understand that starting a freelancer carreer can built up the frustration pretty high, so i erroneously believe that whats new to me, should be new to the whole world, ok what i struggle with many people have struggled with it years back, but i have to say freelancer that have years also come in with an ¨attitude¨ of Augh! those newbies! move on!, so... as you mentioned, it´s good to have a fair mid point, share your knowledge i mean if you are here in the forums it means you like encouraging other people. Earily times had it´s own unique setbacks and lowpoints, nowdays has its own sucky issues, dont disregard our struggles or make them less important! i dont mean to compare! freelancing will always have its difficulties. 

 

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Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
26 of 69

Jesús Mateo R wrote:

Ok, we are starting to understand each other, sorry if it seems i came in too hard, i didn´t mean to have an ¨attitude¨, i know you understand that starting a freelancer carreer can built up the frustration pretty high, so i erroneously believe that whats new to me, should be new to the whole world, ok what i struggle with many people have struggled with it years back, but i have to say freelancer that have years also come in with an ¨attitude¨ of Augh! those newbies! move on!, so... as you mentioned, it´s good to have a fair mid point, share your knowledge i mean if you are here in the forums it means you like encouraging other people. Earily times had it´s own unique setbacks and lowpoints, nowdays has its own sucky issues, dont disregard our struggles or make them less important! i dont mean to compare! freelancing will always have its difficulties. 

 


LOL - well, I'm sorry if I upset you with any of my remarks. I've been really ill and stuck at home for over a week, so I'm crankier than usual. But you have to realize that if you come in here and start telling people that the reason for their hard-earned success is that things were just easier in the olden days, it's not going to win you a lot of admirers. I'm pretty new to posting stuff in the forum, but most of the people who are "gurus" have a truly exhaustive knowledge of how things work around here, and they'll give you great advice if you don't go out of your way to antagonize them first. :-)

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Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
27 of 69

Jesús Mateo R wrote:

Ok, i´ll give you that, complaints have always been the same, can i ask you something? have you ever complaint about that too? on any point in time on your career? have this been a struggle for you in the past? if the answer is yes, then it would be good to share some advice on how did you overcome that, we can use that more than we can use the arguement of: oh i have seen that in the past, there´s nothing new on your complaint, move on. I say this with all respect you deserve.


There's a reason that I'm emphasizing that these same complaints are consistent across time periods, and it's not to be dismissive. It's because the freelancers who get caught up in believing that the problem is some time-specific or market-specific thing beyond their control generally fail--you can't fix something that you think is happening to you due to an outside force.

My experience is very different from that of people who are just joining Upwork--not because I joined Upwork a little sooner, but because I started freelancing in 1989. I got my first freelance job off of a bulletin board on the wall, so finding work was much different (and much more labor intensive, and much slower) when I started my career. It's much, much easier to build a freelance career now, but expectations have changed--many freelancer expect to just sign up for a site like this and start working, not realizing that being a successful freelancer requires business skills, marketing skills, and patient persistence. 

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Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
28 of 69

Jesús Mateo R wrote:

 

I see a pattern here, old freelancers vs new freelancers, see i`m stubborn, and determined to be a succesful freelancer here, and i know it wont be easy,  will have many stepbacks here and there, you great freelancers won´t never see this struggle, when you started out you started on very different conditions, yes.. you also struggled and market was hard, but times are different, what i´m saying with all this, is that Upwork should come up with some device to improve the quality of job posting, of clients, it might even the plane a little for us new freelancers to step up to the big ones like yourself.


Yes, you're right - when I started out it WAS very different conditions, because things were worse than they are now. It was 19 years ago during a recession, most companies were downsizing so there were no permanent jobs available, and the whole global marketplace thing was just starting to have an impact. Elance was still in beta, and you should have seen the kind of wild west marketplace that it was - there were basically no rules at all. You could read everybody's bids and there were always three or four proposals on every project that said, "I'll do your project for free in return for good feedback" (there was no minimum fee and no rules against working for free - that came later). And yes, there was a forum ("water cooler") in which many freelancers complained that people in other countries were stealing "their" jobs. Nothing has changed. If anything, it's much easier to get remote working jobs now, because people are so familiar with the concept - back then, there weren't nearly as many projects to choose from. 

 

And I wonder why you think that Upwork should "do something" about the bad clients? If you were using any other form of advertising or marketing, you would still need to communicate well, exercise common sense, protect yourself, and ensure that you got paid - nobody would be doing this for you. That's all part of running your own business, whether you use Upwork or not.

 

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Community Leader
Mateo R. S Member Since: Dec 13, 2018
29 of 69

Ok, you have good arguement there, didn´t know that... i am taking this in... so you girls, Tiffany, Christine and Jennifer are saying, that no matter what the time is, freelancing have always been hard, and that a CRAZY amount of bad and fake jobs have always been posted, always have been crapload of other freelancers, and there´s nothing new here, that our complaints are the ones that you once had back on your starting days...  and that we freelancers should suck it and toughen up and keep moving on. So, how did you you all became a succesful freelancer, what´s the ¨Secret¨...

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Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
30 of 69

Jesús Mateo R wrote:

Ok, you have good arguement there, didn´t know that... i am taking this in... so you girls, Tiffany, Christine and Jennifer are saying, that no matter what the time is, freelancing have always been hard, and that a CRAZY amount of bad and fake jobs have always been posted, always have been crapload of other freelancers, and there´s nothing new here, that our complaints are the ones that you once had back on your starting days...  and that we freelancers should suck it and toughen up and keep moving on. So, how did you you all became a succesful freelancer, what´s the ¨Secret¨...


Well, I don't think we exactly said all that, but it does seem that every new batch of freelancers thinks the same old challenges are unique to the time and place they're freelancing.

For me, the key to success was being very selective. It sounds counter-intuitive, but if you take on jobs that aren't really what you're looking for, they split your focus and divert your attention from building the business you want. And if you apply to every job you can do, you're in competition with a huge number of freelancers. I never bid on a job unless I can see a reason that I'm a better option than most of the other freelancers who will be bidding on it. That doesn't mean I get every job I bid on (like your coin example), but it increases the percentage and, just as important, it continues to build my expertise, samples, and connections in the specific area I want to work. At this point, virtually all of my work comes from referrals.

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