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Quality of job posts have dramatically decreased

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Community Guru
Eve L Member Since: Feb 17, 2017
51 of 69

Christine A wrote:

Petra R wrote:


UK is the only "other."

 


Really? That's interesting. You'd think that at the very least, there would be an "Australia only" option - it's quite difficult for freelancers in other parts of the world to serve that time zone.


What? Which world do you live in? You do know that Australia has the same (or at least +/- a couple of hours) time zone as Asia? You know, the continent on earth with the biggest population...

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Ace Contributor
Davide O Member Since: Mar 24, 2017
52 of 69

I see what Jesús is trying to say here, and while we don't have specific data or anything about those job posts, the big amount of fake/low quality jobs should be allarming for any freelancer out there (either a newbie or a well-established one).

 

Yes, it has always been like that...but now that the freelancers will have to pay for each proposal they send (actually I haven't been following Upwork at all since they announced that pay-to-propose garbage, did it go through? I'd say 99% sure, right? I occasionally look at the job posts in my field though)...I feel like Upwork should do a better job getting rid of that trash, especially with all these costs the freelancers (and to some extent the clients) have to go through.

 

How is Upwork gonna value how many connects ($) a job is worth when most of the jobs either have a placeholder budget or are simply fake jobs, scouting for a price? What about the ones that just are not gonna happen (something comes up, the client already thought it through and doesn't want to hire for that job anymore but the job just stays up for whatever reason)...or maybe the good 'ole unreasonable ones (like the 20 vid/ad for 20$).

 

Where's the issue you might ask? The issue is that while some of the "big shots" here are gonna push their narrative of "This is not gonna change anything for you"...what they really mean is "This is not gonna change anything for me", either because they already have a good network of recurring clients or are simply well-established top-of-the-chain so they don't have to apply as much (or at all).

 

My POV is the one from an average freelancer...who still gets invites (altough they're 90% of the times atrocious...thanks Upwork "talent specialists") but mainly has to rely on proposing to "good jobs" to really do anything, which is why a higher amount of low quality jobs bothers me a great deal.

The more trash you leave hanging around, the more trash you'll attract, while pushing forward 2 elements:

 

- A bad look on your platform overall: Nobody wants to be known as "This is the platform where all the scammers and 5-buck-stoners hang", right? (Altough I feel like other platforms are beating Upwork on that front...for now)

 

- Some really tough-to-deal-with misinformation to the clients. I've seen so many logo-design job posts range from 5$ to 35$ with the "Expert" or "Intermediate" skill requirements...and a lot of proposals to those jobs aswell. Now, what do you think a client would do while setting his price? He's gonna check whatever other people put, and based on that, set his own price.

Yes, you're supposed to show and explain to the client why you're worth x etc...but with the paid connects rolling out soon that's gonna be a bit tougher to deal with.

I don't feel like spending x$ to try and explain to Billy the car salesman that just because he made an incomprehensible scribble on a crumpled piece of paper, that doesn't count as an "idea" or "concept"...and even if it did, that doesn't mean "-90% of the pay because I gave you the concept" (that's funny because right now, on the 1st page of the graphic design section there's atleast 2 people with that MO...super low pay, but hey...they already have the idea so you just have to "do it").

I would like to discuss with him about his budget and try to inform him how a very low budget could be risky and usually tends to attract very low-quality freelancers which could get him in trouble (copyright infringement and all that), but when I have to pay to do that, and maybe even get a "bad" response from the dude? Nah, I'm just gonna pass.

 

People are gonna gravitate towards other platforms or simply go back to their usual irl business...(I know I did), because the platform doesn't offer anything of value for the investment that it requires from you. The more Upwork shows that they simply don't care...the more people are not gonna care and flock away.

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Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
53 of 69

Davide O wrote:

I see what Jesús is trying to say here, and while we don't have specific data or anything about those job posts, the big amount of fake/low quality jobs should be allarming for any freelancer out there (either a newbie or a well-established one).

 

I feel like Upwork should do a better job getting rid of that trash, especially with all these costs the freelancers (and to some extent the clients) have to go through.


Everything that you've said is true, but let me ask you: What - specifically - do you think that Upwork should do to get rid of all these low-quality clients? Thousands of jobs are posted every week requesting hundreds of different tasks, so Upwork would need to hire employees who are experts in all of these different areas and have them comb through every project posting to determine whether the client is legit, offers fair pay, and whether the job is "high quality" or not. And all of these things are subjective to a large extent; one freelancer might think that a job is interesting and reasonably paid, while another strongly disagrees. It would be expensive - in terms of time spent and increased overheads for employee salaries - and extremely difficult to to make judgments about each and every job post.

 

Therefore, don't you think that it makes more sense for people who ARE experienced at doing these types of jobs - i.e. us, the freelancers - to read the job posts and determine whether we're willing to work on these projects, for these clients, at what prices? And then either bid or not bid accordingly?

 

I do think that Upwork could be doing more to help clients post slightly more detailed RFPs, however. I repeatedly suggested to Elance over the years that they should add an optional, fill-in-the blank section that asks a client how long/how many pages/how many words their projects are, and I still have no idea why this simple suggestion can't be implemented.

 

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Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
54 of 69

Christine, FWIW LinkedIn does use those type of fields, and the information provide is almost always either useless or misleading--clients don't really know the answers in many cases, or even have a common understanding of "page" (which could be 250 to thousands of words depending on spacing and font).

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Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
55 of 69

Tiffany S wrote:

Christine, FWIW LinkedIn does use those type of fields, and the information provide is almost always either useless or misleading--clients don't really know the answers in many cases, or even have a common understanding of "page" (which could be 250 to thousands of words depending on spacing and font).


I know that it's not a perfect solution - and like I said, it can be optional to fill out - but anything that nudges a client into giving slightly more detailed information would be a welcome change. There are currently way too many fixed price projects like "I need a PowerPoint presentation", with no indication of whether you're supposed to be bidding on 10 slides or 100 slides. Even a rough estimate would be better than absolutely nothing. 

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Community Leader
Mateo R. S Member Since: Dec 13, 2018
56 of 69

Do exactly the same they are doing to freelancers, charge connects for putting jobs out there, or make them pay to escrow the full amount before posting, something that makes them invest some money to get in the pool of freelancers, they are gonna have to think twice before posting a fake job or something.

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Ace Contributor
Andreea B Member Since: Nov 1, 2014
57 of 69

Was about to say pretty much the same thing Davide said. While I know this is a long time issue ( crappy job postings, I mean) I think there are 2 things that most of you are missing here:

1. change will not come if we do not speak about it

2. the changes that they've made now, forcing freelancers to pay to apply to jobs SHOULD come with some kind of system to fix this job posting issue

You all jumped on silencing Jesús and invalidating his complaint, instead of actually supporting this and forcing Upwork to have an open and true conversation about this very important issue.

 

Instead of telling everyone who mentions this issue to "work it out and suck it up", freelancers could/should actually request from Upwork to make it a fair playing field between freelancers and clients. At the moment it seems clients have all the perks and freelancers have all the rules. Perhaps a slight exaggeration to prove my point, however I'm a bit baffled at how most freelancers prefer to roll over or even attack others for speaking out.

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Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
58 of 69

Andreea B wrote:

Was about to say pretty much the same thing Davide said. While I know this is a long time issue ( crappy job postings, I mean) I think there are 2 things that most of you are missing here:

1. change will not come if we do not speak about it

2. the changes that they've made now, forcing freelancers to pay to apply to jobs SHOULD come with some kind of system to fix this job posting issue

You all jumped on silencing Jesús and invalidating his complaint, instead of actually supporting this and forcing Upwork to have an open and true conversation about this very important issue.

 

Instead of telling everyone who mentions this issue to "work it out and suck it up", freelancers could/should actually request from Upwork to make it a fair playing field between freelancers and clients. At the moment it seems clients have all the perks and freelancers have all the rules. Perhaps a slight exaggeration to prove my point, however I'm a bit baffled at how most freelancers prefer to roll over or even attack others for speaking out.


First of all, disagreeing with someone is not the same thing as attacking them. Secondly, I don't think that anyone disputed that there are bad clients here - we all know perfectly well that there are. (There are also plenty of bad freelancers; take a look at the clients' forum if you're in any doubt.) So let me ask you the same thing that I asked Davide above - what do you think that Upwork should do to solve the problem? How about some constructive suggestions instead of just complaints?

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Community Leader
Mateo R. S Member Since: Dec 13, 2018
59 of 69

Christine: I DID felt attacked by all the waves of experienced freelancers feeling offended by what i said, Talking bad about other freelancers was NEVER in this thread´s goal, actually it NEVER was my intention to say something bad about you guys i have said repeatedly that i respect you, and i could EASILY ask YOU the same thing, got any solution? you that, have more experience freelancing, i already said something.... clients should have a connect (or similar) system, they should be paying a fee, even if it is small, they should invest on posting jobs, i mean if they are out here it should SHOULD mean theay are hiring someone, so they got a money....

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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
60 of 69

Jesús Mateo R wrote:

clients should have a connect (or similar) system, they should be paying a fee, even if it is small, they should invest on posting jobs, i mean if they are out here it should SHOULD mean theay are hiring someone, so they got a money....


What a great idea!

 

It would remove most of the fake clients and most of the real ones, so there would be hardly any work and Upwork would go out of business within a month.

 

That would solve all the Upwork problems because there would no longer BE an Upwork. I am sure everyone would be perfectly happy then.

 

(Again, this idea has been brought up and debunked hundreds of times.)

 

Why do you think none of the larger platforms do anything so suicidal? Because getting rid of clients and creating barriers to entry for new clients is absolute insanity.

 


Jesús Mateo R wrote:

 i could EASILY ask YOU the same thing, got any solution? you that, have more experience freelancing,


Learn to scan the job posts and identify those most likely to lead to success. Look for the most profitable contracts. Look after the clients you do win so they come back to you or stay with you long term. Make your proposals and your profile as attractive as you can. Find your unique selling point and sell it well.

 

On a platform that has way too many freelancers (removing 30-40% of lower quality, less successful freelancers would be another effective, but not very popular solution) and not enough clients, anything that attracts clients is a good thing. Sure, that means there are more less great clients, too, but that just means freelancers have to improve their client- and job post filtering skills.

 

I certainly do not want Upwork to reduce the available client pool, just because some people lack the skills to filter what they apply to or can't be bothered to do so.

 

 

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