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Really sick of low quality jobs like this (marked "interesting job" as well)

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Ace Contributor
Leon Z Member Since: May 3, 2016
11 of 22

What's fascinating about the job in the image the OP posted is that a job with a description that looks like it was written**Edited for Community Guidelines**, and with unverified payment, still attracted 50+ freelancers. What's up with that?

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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
12 of 22

@Maria C wrote:

The point is, many new clients really have no clue about what budget they should set.


 There are several types of clients who are willing to pay very good rates. One of them are new clients who can be educated and taken by the hand to choose the right path right from their first day on the platform , another are "old" clients who tried "cheap" and suffered the consequences.

 

I love working with both of the above.

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
13 of 22

re: "The point is, many new clients really have no clue about what budget they should set."

 

Sometimes I see low budgets in invitations and job postings, and I just ignore them.

 

But sometimes, if I read the job description and think it is somebody serious, I reply to invitations or apply to jobs while COMPLETELY IGNORING the posted budget or preferred expense level ($, $$, $$$).

 

I have been hired plenty of times by serious clients who paid me what I asked for, and a posted budget or level was never mentioned.

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Active Member
Alex S Member Since: Jan 19, 2017
14 of 22

The reason we have these cheap jobs is because there are people overseas (I don't really like the term "Third World Country") who will work for peanuts. To them, it's good money.

 

Nonetheless, bid high. I bid well above what some of these lowballers have tried to charge and manage to land gigs. If you put a high price tag on yourself, you come across as valuable.

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Community Guru
Olivier P Member Since: May 25, 2015
15 of 22

Of course everything is said already about it. We all need to filter the jobs and find those where we can earn good money. But there is one point i disagree. I really think that Upwork should regulate more. I dont want they regulate all but i think their businees model would be better. they earn fees that are % of the price. So they need to improve the price. I read on other topics that the company still lose money....so it would be better for them to improve the average price of the market.

 

Of course we can educate the customers ....but they learn very quick in the other way too. A friend of mine bought a logo last year for 50 dollars....she was happy to find last week a new set of 3 logos for 10 dollars !!

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Community Guru
Scott E Member Since: Jul 26, 2015
16 of 22

@Olivier P wrote:

Of course everything is said already about it. We all need to filter the jobs and find those where we can earn good money. But there is one point i disagree. I really think that Upwork should regulate more. I dont want they regulate all but i think their businees model would be better. they earn fees that are % of the price. So they need to improve the price. I read on other topics that the company still lose money....so it would be better for them to improve the average price of the market.

 

Of course we can educate the customers ....but they learn very quick in the other way too. A friend of mine bought a logo last year for 50 dollars....she was happy to find last week a new set of 3 logos for 10 dollars !!


If the client wants to pay $50, and he is forced to pay $100, then he'll just go elsewhere. Sure, if he wanted to pay $90 and he's forced to pay $100 then he might hang around, but still. At present, you have three options... ignore the $50 job, submit a proposal on the $50 job at $50, or submit a proposal on the $50 job at $100. If they introduce minimums, then you have zero options.

 

I'm not sure if Upwork are losing money, but increasing the price isn't always the way to go. I've never heard of people camping outside stores to be the first to pay increased prices. If an iPhone is $500 and they sell X a year... would they still sell X a year if they put the price up to $1000?

 

Not to mention the mammoth task of setting a minimum amount for each job. Yes, you could set the minimum for logos at $X but what about subtle variations in jobs... they have an existing logo and just want it vectorized, they have the vector and just want the colours changed, they have an ai version but just want an eps version. You'd need prices for sub-categories within sub-categories. And who is to say what the minimum rate should be? Your minimum would probably be different to my minimum or somebody else's minimum?

 

And the big one... if Upwork are setting a minimum, shouldn't they be setting a maximum as well? I wouldn't like that very much.

"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)
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Community Guru
Olivier P Member Since: May 25, 2015
17 of 22

@Scott E wrote:

@Olivier P wrote:

Of course everything is said already about it. We all need to filter the jobs and find those where we can earn good money. But there is one point i disagree. I really think that Upwork should regulate more. I dont want they regulate all but i think their businees model would be better. they earn fees that are % of the price. So they need to improve the price. I read on other topics that the company still lose money....so it would be better for them to improve the average price of the market.

 

Of course we can educate the customers ....but they learn very quick in the other way too. A friend of mine bought a logo last year for 50 dollars....she was happy to find last week a new set of 3 logos for 10 dollars !!


If the client wants to pay $50, and he is forced to pay $100, then he'll just go elsewhere. Sure, if he wanted to pay $90 and he's forced to pay $100 then he might hang around, but still. At present, you have three options... ignore the $50 job, submit a proposal on the $50 job at $50, or submit a proposal on the $50 job at $100. If they introduce minimums, then you have zero options.

 

I'm not sure if Upwork are losing money, but increasing the price isn't always the way to go. I've never heard of people camping outside stores to be the first to pay increased prices. If an iPhone is $500 and they sell X a year... would they still sell X a year if they put the price up to $1000?

 

Not to mention the mammoth task of setting a minimum amount for each job. Yes, you could set the minimum for logos at $X but what about subtle variations in jobs... they have an existing logo and just want it vectorized, they have the vector and just want the colours changed, they have an ai version but just want an eps version. You'd need prices for sub-categories within sub-categories. And who is to say what the minimum rate should be? Your minimum would probably be different to my minimum or somebody else's minimum?

 

And the big one... if Upwork are setting a minimum, shouldn't they be setting a maximum as well? I wouldn't like that very much.


You miss the point : i never said to set a minimum. 

 

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Community Guru
Scott E Member Since: Jul 26, 2015
18 of 22

@Alex S wrote:

 

(I don't really like the term "Third World Country")

 


Not many do. It's an outdated term left over from the cold war, that actually defined countries that weren't aligned with the US or the USSR, but has since become a catch all phrase for 'poor countries'. I mean, Sweden was a neutral country during the cold war, but I don;t think anybody would consider them 'a poor country'. 

 

'Developing Countries' or Developing Nations' are pretty much the go to phrases these days.

 

In my opinion, the biggest reason that people 'work for peanuts' is that they don't have a massive understanding of how freelancing works. They think "well I was earning $10 an hour at the last place I worked, so $10 sounds fair. Or i could charge $15 and then I'll make 50% more a year! Happy days!"

 

That's all well and good if you get 40 hours of work every week and it costs you nothing to produce that work. But most people here can't bill 40 hours a week. Some can't even bill 20 hours or 10 hours a week. Then there's all the things your employer provided that you're now going to have to provide yourself. Healthcare, pension contributions, taxes, national insurance, breaks, training, subsidised meals, a desk, a computer, equipment, software, paid holidays etc. 

 

Anyone charging what they used to make back in a real world job is going to be broke before they know it. By the time they realise and put their rates up, the next batch of eager newcomers have arrived who are starting out charging peanuts, so the cycle never really ends. I've seen people from the US and the UK bidding $5 an hour which is lower than the minimum wage, so it's not all just developing nations to blame.

 

Then you've got the people who do live in developing nations... yes, on the whole their average cost of living is going to be lower than the average person from a developed nation. But people read the headlines when it comes to minimum wages or average wages in these countries and they have a skewed view of how cheap it must be for them. They see that some people make $2 a day and they feel that $3 an hour must be like some kind of lottery windfall for them. That's rarely the case.

 

Yes, I'm sure there will be plenty of people tending to the land out in the countryside, living in modest houses that they may have built themselves, who can get by on a few dollars a day. A massive bag of rice might cost $10 in the US, and it might cost $1 in a developing country but that doesn;t mean that they can live on ten times less. If there's one thing I've learned on my travels it's that food, wages and accommodation might be cheap in developing nations, but but western goods and imported electronics are pretty much the same wherever you go. I bought a laptop in Vietnam for example, which I could have got for about 20% less in the UK. Probably 30% less in the US.

 

So yeah, you've got this dude farming rice in the middle of nowhere who is happy enough on $2, or $5, or $10 a day... but how on earth is that dude going to build your website, or make your video? Maybe if he saved up for five years he could afford a Windows 95 machine with a black and white CRT monitor, and he rides his mule the 50 miles to the nearest town to upload the work in the internet cafe, and trades a goat and a chicken for a copy of Excel on a floppy disk while he's there?

 

When you're getting into the realms of providing professional work, then you're also getting into the realms of a university education, living in a big city, having a broadband internet connection, a Mac for development, multiple Android and iOS devices for checking responsiveness, an Adobe Creative Cloud subscription, maybe a graphics tablet, HD video camera, DSLR, possibly an office, healthcare etc etc. 

 

Somebody who needs all that, probably needs more to live on than the minimum wage dude or dudess who lives in rural small-town America.

 

So just to sum up... quality should be quality wherever the freelancer lives, but I can understand why clients might be influenced by a freelancer's location when it comes to rates. However, if somebody sees the average hourly wage in country X is $1, then they really shouldn't feel like they're doing them a favour by offering them $3 an hour... because it's not quite as simple as that. And don't forget, I think the cost of living in Canada is about 27th in the world, so all things being equal (which they usually aren't!) there's possibly a bunch of people from 26 other countries that feel the Canadians are lowballing and working for peanuts!

 

Sorry, just waffling on and thinking out loud there!

 

 

"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)
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Active Member
Charalampos C Member Since: Oct 14, 2016
19 of 22

Well there is a large amount of clients that put an indicative price, and also many clients are not quite sure about the cost of a project. 

 

Its your mission to guide your client and make him/she understand what he really needs and how much he/she must pay for it on order to have the desired results.

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Active Member
Janie G Member Since: Jul 11, 2019
20 of 22
Am I missing something here?
Is there a way for freelancers to filter jobs by budget? I can't figure out how to do it.
It would save hours sifting through the mess.
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