Refund? I have to pay $20 for writing 6000 words?

[ella_sherr]

Hi,

I was hired to write a 15,000 word book for $150. I was told the book had already been planned, so decided to take it on.

However, only chapter headings were planned, meaning actually nothing had been planned.

I spent hours researching and planning, and wrote 6000 words, and unfortunately had to stop the project because it was taking too many hours for the small fee.

I asked the client for morto consider increasing the payment due to hours spent and misunderstanding about planning issues, he said that was the highest he could pay.

He has now told me he hired someone else and paid them double the money he offered me.

I had to make the difficult decision to cancel as I was unable too complete the project in time.

Now, I am being asked for $20 escrow fees?

I lost hours of time and recieved no payment fo the work. How is it possible that I have to pay HIM??

Thanks for any guidance on this.

Ella

[versailles]

It's up to you to decide if you want to go the dispute way or to refund him. Working for close to nothing is a business decision (a bad one if you ask me, but everyone is making their choices in life) and usually comes with consequences.

[ella_sherr]

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I was a bit decieved when I took on the work.

I have never disputed before, do you have any idea if I will be successful or if it might affect my stats?

[versailles · Accepted solution]

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Ella S wrote:

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I was a bit decieved when I took on the work.

I have never disputed before, do you have any idea if I will be successful or if it might affect my stats?

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Refunding will impact your stats negatively, disputing may trigger a bad feedback from the client.

Also you need to read this: 

Fixed-Price Escrow Instructions

[ella_sherr]

Thanks for the advice. Appreciated. I will refund. I have to accept I made some bad decisions with this project and a dispute will probably get me nowhere.

[petra_r]

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Ella S wrote:
Thanks for the advice. Appreciated. I will refund.

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It will seriously ding your job success score.

[natebraun1]

Your "You should have known better" answer is horribly disrespectful and arrogant. She is asking for help, and you threw mud in her face.

[petra_r]

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Ella S wrote:

Now, I am being asked for $20 escrow fees?

I lost hours of time and recieved no payment fo the work. How is it possible that I have to pay HIM??

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No, the client is asking for the money that is in Escrow back. It is money you never got because you figured out what your should have known before accepting the contract, not after 6k words....

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Ella S wrote:

I was hired to write a 15,000 word book for $150.

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And that seemed like a reasonable deal to you in which alternative universe, exactly?

[ella_sherr]

Thank you for your helpful reply. I have resolved the issue.

[r_satta]

This is one of the times I have to agree with the clients.
150$ (minus fees) to write 15000 words for a "planned" book (and to me, planned means exactly that the body of a story is planned, chapter's titles are way beyond my expectations)?
I can type 120 words per minute, but this still would have taken more than 2 hours typing non stop something I was actually reading.
What did you exactly expect?

Btw, from my point of view, this something that should always happen when you win jobs for bidding too low.
You bid low to ensure the job -> Do a poor job/can't complete the job -> get poor reviews
For the next time, value yourself more when you bid, we reap what we sow.

[ella_sherr]

Yes, I agree with you here. I am still learning I suppose. Thank you for your reply, it’s helpful to consider in the future.

[ella_sherr]

It was a non-fiction book, so that meant the topics to be written about had been planned, but none of the subject matter. I had assumed ‘planned’ meant that the facts etc to be included had even planned. It meant I had to research a lot of material even before writing.

[r_satta]

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Ella S wrote:
It was a non-fiction book, so that meant the topics to be written about had been planned, but none of the subject matter. I had assumed ‘planned’ meant that the facts etc to be included had even planned. It meant I had to research a lot of material even before writing.

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I don't know in details since I don't write books. But to write simple articles (let's say 500 words), it can take up to 1-2 hours, I can't even imagine how long it will take to write a non-fiction book. 
Maybe, let's say just maybe, I would have taken up at least 450$ to only proofread the entire book (and this is considered kinda low). I'm still amazed at how your client found another freelancer for 300$.

[ella_sherr]

Yeah, I am too. And I’m obviously regretting taking it on.

I’m now realising that if i hadn’t refunded upwork would have refunded in 7 days? I really messed up here.

[petra_r]

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Ella S wrote:
Yeah, I am too. And I’m obviously regretting taking it on.

I’m now realising that if i hadn’t refunded upwork would have refunded in 7 days? I really messed up here.

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It's over and done and yes, you did. Learning opportunity for the future. You have no need (going by your profile) to agree to such nonsense projects and I am sure you will find that the clients who pay normal rates also treat their freelancers with so much more respect.

Get the heck away from the swamp that is the "1 Cent a word" end of the freelancing pond.

Nothing positive can be found there ever at all.

[ella_sherr]

Yes. Lesson learned. Need to understand better about how to value my skills and time. Thanks 🙏🏻

[tlbp]

If you wrote 6000 words for which you were never paid, those words belong to you. Split them up into topic-specific writing samples or blogs and use them on your profile or sell them. 

[ella_sherr]

Thank you for this, Tonya! It’s actually pretty good stuff. Selling as a blog is a good idea. I’ll look into it.

[ella_sherr]

Yes. Lesson learned. Need to understand better about how to value my skills and time. Thank you 🙂

[tlsanders]

Ella, it's easy to fall into the trap of seeing page after page of really low-paying opportunities in your feed and thinking that if you want to work, that's what you have to accept. That impression is aggravated by freelancers who post constantly about how there are no good-paying clients here. Don't be fooled. If you're patient and discerning, you will learn to quickly scroll through the crap jobs and spot the one or two that are worth pursuing.

[ella_sherr]

Thank you, Tiffany. This is much needed advice which I need to hear. I appreciate it.

[lysis10]

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Ella S wrote:

I was hired to write a 15,000 word book for $150.

He has now told me he hired someone else and paid them double the money he offered me.

😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄

[prestonhunter]

This was a crummy job.

You're fortunate that the client wanted to work with somebody else, and you don't need to stay with this client until the end of this project, for very little money.

The person who really lost out here is the person that the client hired and continued working with. You're the lucky one.

[ella_sherr]

Think you, Preston! This makes me feel a bit better about it 🙂

[kat303]

Now, I am being asked for $20 escrow fees?

You don't need to pay this client anything. If those fees are Upworks service fees for posting a job,then that is on him. Do NOT pay the $20. (talk about cheap) 

If you refunded what was deposited in escrow, that means - a job with no money earned, and that will affect your JSS. 

If you sent this client ANY of your work, then he does NOT have the right to use it. You still own the copyrights to your work. He can  not use your work in print or elsewhere unless he pays you for that work. 

In the future, before accepting an offer make sure all content/files are delivered to you, all questions are understood and answered for both parties, all details and information concerning the job is given and understood, and terms are agreed on. Also make sure you list the deliverables in detail such as how many edits/revisions you will do. Also, include the statement - any work that goes above and beyond what is listed here will incur additional payment. 

If you see the materials/files you would be working with you can not only come up with a rough estimate of how long it will take, what you have to work with, how complex it is and how different it may be from the job's description.  

[petra_r]

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Kathy T wrote:

Now, I am being asked for $20 escrow fees?

You don't need to pay this client anything. If those fees are Upworks service fees for posting a job,then that is on him. Do NOT pay the $20. (talk about cheap) 

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Huh?

The client funded the first milestone with $ 20 and that is what was being requested back.

[kat303]

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Petra R wrote:

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Kathy T wrote:

Now, I am being asked for $20 escrow fees?

You don't need to pay this client anything. If those fees are Upworks service fees for posting a job,then that is on him. Do NOT pay the $20. (talk about cheap) 

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Huh?

The client funded the first milestone with $ 20 and that is what was being requested back.

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Well, she said escrow FEES. I heard that clients are getting "hit" with fees when they post their job. I was going by that. 

But since you said that was what was deposited into escrow, I'll add 

In the future - when you accept an offer after everything is worked out, make sure each milestone is FULLY funded in relationship to the scope of work assigned to that milestone. 

[ella_sherr]

Thank you, Kathy. This is good advice I will definitely adhere to in the future 🙂