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yitwail
Member

Refund connects when application's withdrawn, please

I have posted frequently in oDesk Community but never created a new message until now. I hope it receives plenty of attention from everyone, including oDesk staff.

 

There's a well-known problem of clients who post jobs for which they hire no one. Prior to connects, freelancers could deal with this by withdrawing their application. They still can, but at the cost of losing connects. This puts all freelancers in a catch 22, especially freelancers on the Basic plan, which I assume will be the majority of freelancers. Currently, the only way connects can be refunded is when the job is canceled by the client or oDesk. The sort of clients who open a job without hiring anyone are not going to suddenly start canceling their jobs, and I assume oDesk will cancel a job only if the job violates TOS. So freelancers are completely at the mercy of clients if they choose not to hire anyone.

 

To recap, a freelancer uses 2 connects, applies for a job, no one gets hired, and the freelancer wasted 2 precious connects. What possible harm can it do to return the connects to the freelancer when she or he withdraws the application?

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
117 REPLIES 117

John

 

Totally  agree with you there might be an other thing Odesk can do.There should be a time limit for a job post for a client to hire someone minimuim a week or two otherwise the job should go to archive automatically to asume that the client is not interested in this job anymore.

 

So the freelancers will have their connects back after two weeks but i dont think so Odesk will do that.

From what I recall, under the Connects system if there's no activity on a job for 30 days it gets closed; unfortunately as the Connect refresh period is also 30 days I very much doubt it'll be any help at all -- if you apply for a job next week and nothing happens for 30 days I can't imagine you'll get those Connects added to your total next month -- you just threw them away through no fault of your own.

 

Essentially we're now going to be punished if a client is lazy or has no intention of hiring anyone, but it's a done deal now and I suspect we're going to have to like it or lump it...

Matthew, I'm trying to be optimistic here. Clearly, getting connects refunded benefits the freelancer who withdraws the application. At the same time, it benefits freelancers who do not withdraw the application, by reducing the size of the applicant pool. Lastly, it benefits the client by having fewer applications to keep track of. The main justification for connects in the first place is that it makes applications 'stand out' by reducing the number of applications, and allowing applications to be withdrawn wiithout losing connects does just that.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Wrong.

 

I've placed 30 bids 2 month ago.. Only 1 customer respond.

29 is dead.

 

You shall take care about "I need to make this quick" customers.

Using a connect is our selling power. If our selling power is locked with an application, where the client takes more than two or three weeks just interviewing. How can we even know that the client has seen our changed bid? It happens so many times, that the client is not only interviewing for too many days,but also keep on peeping the post, just in case if someone has lowered the bid; and still the wait game goes on!!!

110% right

It is 100% coorect and right approch for all parties.

 

its win win condition for all.

 

so please implement this thing or just let us know that this thing is not going to happen so we live with it.

 

pelase respond to this issue.

 

i lost my so many connects and waiting in days for job, not well for my membership as well.

 

please do something.


@Hardik S wrote:

It is 100% coorect and right approch for all parties.

 

its win win condition for all.

 

so please implement this thing or just let us know that this thing is not going to happen so we live with it.

 

pelase respond to this issue.

 

i lost my so many connects and waiting in days for job, not well for my membership as well.

 

please do something.


 Never going to happen, buddy.

 

Some things are just never going to happen here. Return of connects, JSS, changing private feedback, feedback given even if there is a dispute... These things aren't worth arguing over because they aren't taking them away. Maybe tweaking things here or there but they ain't dropping them altogether.

Unlikely to happen since we have the option to buy connect equivalent to $1 each.

I buy 12$ connect plan by mistaken and I want 0.15$ plan
How can I refund please tell me..

Hi Amir,

 

One of our team members will reach out to you via ticket as soon as possible and assist you further with your connects. Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork

There are no refunds from Upwork. You can sell them to another contractor.
Upwork guarantees that every contractor gets to see where to bid no refund.
Dollarama people exist on Upwork.

L.
dratif
Member

They will pay no heed to your reasonable depends. It's like take it or leave it. This time leave it will be oDesk. 

mikas_bog
Member

I already wrote about that 5 times, but they always ignored me. I propose a 3-day policy (3 days to hire someone). When the deadline is reach, client should be penalized and our connects should be returned. 

 


Dejan H wrote:

I already wrote about that 5 times, but they always ignored me. I propose a 3-day policy (3 days to hire someone). When the deadline is reach, client should be penalized and our connects should be returned. 


 Dejan, I'm sure you and I aren't the only ones who asked for this, but, maybe no one pointed out to oDesk before that getting connect refunds when withdrawing applications will make everyone else's applications 'stand out', because that's the first reason oDesk gives for why connects benefit freelancers.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

First of all, withdrawing connects does not auotomatically help other bids stand out; the cover letter does.

This letter, is to help upwork to reach their 10B goal: 1) don't give too much time for a client to finalize a freelancer, 2) once the client hires someone, release the connects of other freelancers. This way there will be more "turnover" of connects.

Just carry out a survey; how many freelancers really go for buying more bids? how many jobs get filled quickly? how many jobs go on unfilled due to lack of a " good fit " talent? a good fit talent's connects may been locked somewhere.

Bottomline: Any good marketing MBA (hired by upwork.com) can tell upwork, that upwork can make more money, if more and more proposals are finalized, instead of waiting for the freelancers to exahaust there connects, and buy more.

Conserve and recycle the connects --That's the way to go to 10B goal.


@John K wrote:

 


@Dejan H wrote:

I already wrote about that 5 times, but they always ignored me. I propose a 3-day policy (3 days to hire someone). When the deadline is reach, client should be penalized and our connects should be returned. 


 Dejan, I'm sure you and I aren't the only ones who asked for this, but, maybe no one pointed out to oDesk before that getting connect refunds when withdrawing applications will make everyone else's applications 'stand out', because that's the first reason oDesk gives for why connects benefit freelancers.


It seems a bit disingenuous to say that you want this feature for clients who never hire anyone and then say that it will benefit the other freelancers. Standing out doesn't help a whole lot with a client who isn't actually going to hire. 

I have been wronged in many proposals I sent accoess. But still I think, a week is OK to finalize a freelancer. 3days would be a too little ๐Ÿ™‚


@Dejan H wrote:

I already wrote about that 5 times, but they always ignored me. I propose a 3-day policy (3 days to hire someone). When the deadline is reach, client should be penalized and our connects should be returned. 


3 days?

 

That seems like a great way to clear the site of all but junk clients. Though there are exceptions, the hiring process for skilled employees or contractors rarely moves that quickly. The stats here, if I recall correctly, have the average hiring time for different types of jobs as between 3 and 7 days, and that's presented as a selling point (presumably because it's so much quicker than the same process often moves in the outside world).

 

I picked up a job three or four days ago that I bid on January 21. It was completed the next day and paid the day after. It was small, but still, I'm glad Upwork didn't chase that client away with some artificial and unrealistic time constraint. 

Ya.. I do agree with this 100%

maltech
Member


You asking freelancers to pass tests, fight agains each other, place lower bids. Why?

 

I shall pay taxes 10% to you, 10% to goverment and now additional 10$ to place bids?

 


 Capitalism my man. It costs to advertise. Your government only charges you 10% taxes? Dang I am in the wrong country. I am on about 45% income tax on what I made (before crafty deductions of course), 8% sales tax on anything I buy, and taxed every year on cars, boats, and property.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi John,

 

Thank you for your suggestion. We are closely listening to the Community's imput and have already updated our policy's about returning connects if the client cancels the job. However, we do not expect to force clients to close their job postings since some clients take time to hire or go back to their applicants list to hire after some time.

 

~ Valeria
Upwork

Valeria,

 

Thank you for the courtesy of responding even if my suggestion is not being accepted and no reason given why my suggestion is not acceptable.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Hi Valeria,

 

I think it would be fair to offer a freelancer the option to retract their offer of service after certain criteria have not been met.

 

For instance:

 

- If an account has zero communication with applicants after 48hrs then we the freelancer should be able to withdraw.

 

- If oDesk is going to continue down this connects route the a freelancer should get a 50% refund for making the effort to connect.  After all were keeping the oDesk client base inundated with options and services?

 

- I'm loathe to suggest making the platform a pay-for system because I don't want to inhibit the right for those in countries with lower rates of pay to apply but there should be some recompense for those who pay monthly. 

 

---- I'd happily pay you $10 a month to revert back to the 20 application quota which i can withdraw from and apply daily.  This would stem the tide of fraudulent and repetitive application which we see that no doubt cheapens the client experience.  This still leaves the 60 free connects for thos who maybe cannot afford $10 per month.

 

I feel as though my last point makes the most sense, You'll see it in the figures over the next few days, the rate of applications will drop, are you really helping your clients by limiting their options?

 

C'mon... You know it makes sense, let's have a group hug and make up x

Hi Valeria,

Understandable! On the other side if the client never hire say after 3 months. oDesk should cancel the job post and return the paid connects to the freelancer. Especially if the freelancer used paid connects to apply for the posting. This is not an unreasonable request! It's  also right and fair.

Your Thoughts Please.....

Hi Ian,

 

A job posting gets automatically closed if there is no activity on it for 30 days. Connects used to apply for it will not get returned in this case. I understand your concern and I have shared it with the team. Thank you!

~ Valeria
Upwork

I have noticed this problem as well. There are a lot of clients posting jobs who never hire, let alone even interview anybody for their supposedly "available" job. Many don't even have a payment method verified but still have several unhired jobs open. It is no secret that a lot of jobs posted on here are for the purpose of getting estimates for outside projects with no intent to hire.

 

I don't see why it is unreasonable to allow freelancers to withdraw and receive their connects back after 1 week has passed since applying for a job, especially if the client is unresponsive.

"I don't see why it is unreasonable to allow freelancers to withdraw and receive their connects back after 1 week has passed since applying for a job"

 

Because then it would be right back to the oDesk system, where unqualified bidders send out a constant stream of useless spam proposals. 30 bids a month is plenty.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.โ€• George Orwell

I don't see how one can send constant spam when they have to wait a full week just to get back 2 connects, or 1 job proposal. It just means that those who applied to spam jobs would actually be compensated for their loss of time and effort to write a cover letter and answer questions to a stooge.

Also, I'd argue that 30 bids a month is not "plenty" when you're a small-project worker like myself who gets $1 per minute of audio they type and often has to apply to anything they can find just to have a chance of earning a living wage. The fact that US-based transcriptionists lose most bids to outsourced ESL speakers willing to do it for a 90% discount also makes it difficult to part with connects - it's literally a needle-in-a-haystack situation trying to find a client who is actually willing to pay for quality & experience.

 

Sigh...back to wasting connects.

Wow, that is awful. I'm new to Upwork but I'm noticing the unrepsonsive client phenomenon is apparently the norm.

 

I'm really loving it how jobs won't show any activity for an entire day and the client supposedly wants a 24-28 hour turnaround on their project. Or, how they hire and then leave the job active for the rest of the rejected applicants to just figure out for themselves.

That is a false dilemma. What us freelancers are asking for us simply the ability to be refunded connects when we withdrawl from a job. This benefits the client because only the most commited applicants will risk losing a connect to stay in the game. This benefits freelancers because we avoid losing our connects to less responsive clients. It's a win/win.

However, what you appear to be saying is nothing, and you have nothing to say because you have a profit motive in us losing connects because that means we have us buy extra connects (at $1 a piece). Your company's motive couldn't be more obvious if you wanted to. I wish you would give us the respect we deserve.

As a company, you catch more flies with honey. In the long run, your current policy will result in more people quitting and joining other platforms, and thus lose out on qualified applicants who could charge more money than more desperate applicants who are willing to put up with this nonsense, thus increasing your revenue flow. This is a long-term strategy that appears to fall on deaf ears, but I've said my peace. It's up to Upwork whether or not to listen.

Hi,

I feel, there must be a reasonable time limit to finalize a freelancer. Otherwise one can keep the candies for long time, appreciating the taste, and the candy owner cannot offer the test to someone else until you finish with it!! There has to be a time limit for how long you can hold someone's candy. lick it or leave it; let the seller be able to sell it to someone else.

I've understood what you're trying to say. I am facing a problem, while a client hires someone then I don't get connects back. Why? Is there any business consulation for selling membership by upwork? Then why do freelancers come up upwork to find and sell services? I am now having 6 connects, I've withdrawn few proposals while they are unresponsive by means. Still I've plenty of time ahead of the month and I can only send 2 to 3 proposals.

 

You're taking 10%, on transaction you're taking, on bids you want to. Who has money in the back and tries for the Membership plan with $s and our bids even not been resolute to the client. If employers are your client, So are we. Find a solution and we should not post for any of this reason.


@A K M Mazedul H wrote:

I've understood what you're trying to say. I am facing a problem, while a client hires someone then I don't get connects back. Why? Is there any business consulation for selling membership by upwork? Then why do freelancers come up upwork to find and sell services? I am now having 6 connects, I've withdrawn few proposals while they are unresponsive by means. Still I've plenty of time ahead of the month and I can only send 2 to 3 proposals.

 

You're taking 10%, on transaction you're taking, on bids you want to. Who has money in the back and tries for the Membership plan with $s and our bids even not been resolute to the client. If employers are your client, So are we. Find a solution and we should not post for any of this reason.


So you send an application for a job through the mail. The prospect hires someone else. You go to the employer to "withdraw" your application? By the most unlikely of chances, they still have it, can find it, and return it to you along with the envelope it came in. You then take the envelope to the post office and demand that they replace your used and canceled stamp with a new one, because you didn't get the job?

It's funny cuz the people who run out of connects every month are the ones Upwork is trying to squeeze out.

 

It's also funny cuz I swear these people don't live in the real world and have never had a real job. I'd rather the 2 bucks and 10 minutes lost for a proposal than those dreaded telephone and onsite technical interviews.

I ran out of connects my first month here. Then I started to learn the platform a little better, and I have not run out of connects a single month since - and I'm actually able to book my time reasonably far in advance. Upwork actually gets more money if you're applying for the jobs you're a good fit for - the 10% of good contracts works out to a LOT more than, what is it, $1 per bid if you have to buy extra connects? (Which isn't actually that unreasonable when you consider the alternatives.)

 

More than just not running out of connects, though, I've actually had multiple months where I didn't use a single connect. This is the way the system is meant to be used. If you're presenting yourself well, the connects are all but unnecessary. (I actually submitted 4 applications this month I believe - after several months without applying to anything I wasn't personally invited to... My clients talk about me to other clients and I get a chance to decline interview requests to jobs I never applied to, on an almost-daily basis.)

 

Your connects aren't ACTUALLY limited. Your FREE connects are. Not all sites even offer free communication.

And I've been left hanging on jobs that I was invited to - they liked me enough to invite me to their job, but not enough to hire me, and that's OK. This would be more of a reason for refunding connects because it actually gets our hopes up (invite = good chance to get hired, right?) but I wouldn't even dream of raising a fuss about it, because the system works out well for those of us who know what to do.

 

Those who don't want to take the time to learn how to use the system properly shouldn't be here. They artificially inflate the talent pool, take contracts from people who would undoubtedly do a better job with the contract, and they ruin the reputation of the platform with the clients. Freelancers who need more connects than the limit for the free ones, who are not willing to pay for them, are not doing anyone any service. If clients don't want you, you're basically a black hole. It's not like you can't just apply to jobs on another platform. Upwork is not unique in that regard - I'm a member of about 5 different platforms - one only allows 10 applications per month and, as far as I've seen, gives no chance for buying more.

 

Yes, there are bad clients too - but part of the cost of doing work is learning FOR YOURSELF which clients will be bad news. I have yet to have a job go sour on here, because if you know what you're looking for, it's rare that a client will totally surprise you. And if they DO surprise you (remember, a job application is not a job guarantee, so you really shouldn't put your expectations too high) ... You knew it was a risk when you applied, because a) no guarantee and b) the client had no past hires/feedback. If the client DOES have past hires/feedback and does something completely out of line, ACTUALLY against TOS for example, you can report the posting and/or the client and the team will take appropriate action. (But send your reports through to support as well as reporting directly through the appropriate link - if it's that big of a deal to you, you can spend a little extra time and get your connects back. But they're definitely not going to implement a feature that lets you get those precious connects back without you proving that you EARNED them back.

- Barbara Herrera -

Hi do you have any updates regarding this concern ms valeria?

 

Humble Request

 

Hello,

I am sufferar of refunding connects issue.

request to Upwork Team

You can make system that one can apply 15 times a day not more if more he need he will upgrade his membership & you can keep 25% of work money but refunding connects to freelacer you should think again

 

There have many client who dont hire.....so actualy shoud have a limit

 

 

Requested By Noor

anima9
Member

You know what, I used to think oDesk was right with the connects but upon application, my goodness this was chaotic indeed.

 

I had all the troubles you guys have and right now I'm not even looking to find work until May 1 arrives. I'm down to 4 connects!

 

I got all my working clients without connects and after a month, it feels as if they're not willing to hire anymore.

 

I really hope this connects thing is on a dry run this month. I'm not paying $10 just to see my connects drain for nothing. And what's the joke on having your connnects rolled over? It's as if you'll have more than enough per month. More than enough per week, maybe, but per month? LOL

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